 Poster: A snowHead
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@MorningGory, well I laugh out loud at the claimed membership figure for snowHeads. Most of them seem to be either dead, stopped sliding on snow or just moved on.
In truth you have about 1,000 people posting and 250 on the bashes.
I was told at snowHeads startup that the UK’s snow users wanted an open forum and that hundreds of thousands would join.
Total failure on your part.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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'I' don't have anything to do with SH in an organisational capacity, so not a total failure on my part (or anyone's!). In fact I think of it as a success as it has revived my skiing 'career'.
SH is not a commercial organisation so doesn't need to make a profit.
And probably more posting and on bashes that SCGB has on it's forum and holidays.
Which setup makes the biggest loss I wonder?
Now go and suck up to the boss. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| MorningGory wrote: |
'I' don't have anything to do with SH in an organisational capacity, so not a total failure on my part (or anyone's!). In fact I think of it as a success as it has revived my skiing 'career'.
SH is not a commercial organisation so doesn't need to make a profit.
And probably more posting and on bashes that SCGB has on it's forum and holidays.
Which setup makes the biggest loss I wonder?
Now go and suck up to the boss. |
snowHeads is definitely a commercial business that is designed to made its owner a profit. The Ski Club is a not for profit member owned club.
Another snowHeads fact is that a 6th of all posts made in the last 17 years have been made about 30 people.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
SH is not a commercial organisation so doesn't need to make a profit.
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That's my impression too. Though I could be wrong on that.
But then, I thought that's the same with SCGB too. Perhaps I'm wrong on that as well?
If so, I'll shut up. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| abc wrote: |
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SH is not a commercial organisation so doesn't need to make a profit.
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That's my impression too. Though I could be wrong on that.
But then, I thought that's the same with SCGB too. Perhaps I'm wrong on that as well?
If so, I'll shut up. |
The owner of this site has to eat and I'm pretty sure that snowHeads is his fulltime job. I expect he qualified for a self employed (he operates as a sole trader) covid grant when the season was cancelled and he lost all the profit from his holiday sales. Some people pay him a sub to be members and get extras for their money, so he would have had some income there.
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| Gerry wrote: |
@MorningGory, well I laugh out loud at the claimed membership figure for snowHeads. Most of them seem to be either dead, stopped sliding on snow or just moved on.
In truth you have about 1,000 people posting and 250 on the bashes.
I was told at snowHeads startup that the UK’s snow users wanted an open forum and that hundreds of thousands would join.
Total failure on your part. |
You still don't get it do you? It's not about "at least we're bigger than those pathetic bedwetters at sHs" it's about remaining relevant.
How many SCGB non rep members posting daily on your faceache threads, how many new ideas will you be trialling this winter , will you have an insurance offer sorted by September for booking season ( clue you didn't last year)? Explain social skiing in a legal context? Etc etc
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[quote="Gerry"] The Ski Club is a not for profit member owned club./quote]
I guess it's succeeding there then 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ironic that Gerry is happy to be a snowhead though. Does that make him a failure? I guess he doesn't get what he needs from SCGB 
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| Quote: |
Whatever that model, what the new club won't have are the baggage of internal politics of SCGB which clearly nobody "needs
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Yes, nor the overhead and desire to protect a £6m holiday company - the most difficult issue is a legacy of a £70 pa membership fee, which seems wrong in todays world. It may be OK for the well off 50+'s but most now expect much for free. For me these issues make it unlikely that SCGB will be able to change its spots in the way needed to make it relevant.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
he most difficult issue is a legacy of a £70 pa membership fee, which seems wrong in todays world. It may be OK for the well off 50+'s but most now expect much for free.
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I don't know if that's really a "most difficult issue". I belong to a couple of clubs (canoe, cycling). Some are cheaper, others almost as much. I perceive I'm getting significant benefit that I otherwise can't get without being a member. Namely, people to bike with (not entirely necessary but nonetheless more fun), and kayak with (quite important if I don't want to risk drowning in a lonely river)
It really is whether the club provides what the member wants/needs or not.
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the overhead and desire to protect a £6m holiday company
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That sounds so wrong!
In today's world, who "needs" TO's? Even less so one that has a huge overhead?
Snowheads isn't a TO in a traditional sense. It really is a place people get idea & help on how to sort out a DIY ski holiday! To attend a bash, one still need to sort one's own flight and ground transfer! So it's not much a stretch to do the lodging oneself also, for a different week at the same location (or an entirely different location).
The main reason people attend bashes are to have people to ski with. (and us soloist to avoid paying single's supplement).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| abc wrote: |
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he most difficult issue is a legacy of a £70 pa membership fee, which seems wrong in todays world. It may be OK for the well off 50+'s but most now expect much for free.
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I don't know if that's really a "most difficult issue". I belong to a couple of clubs (canoe, cycling). Some are cheaper, others almost as much. I perceive I'm getting significant benefit that I otherwise can't get without being a member. Namely, people to bike with (not entirely necessary but nonetheless more fun), and kayak with (quite important if I don't want to risk drowning in a lonely river)
It really is whether the club provides what the member wants/needs or not.
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the overhead and desire to protect a £6m holiday company
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That sounds so wrong!
In today's world, who "needs" TO's? Even less so one that has a huge overhead?
Snowheads isn't a TO in a traditional sense. It really is a place people get idea & help on how to sort out a DIY ski holiday! To attend a bash, one still need to sort one's own flight and ground transfer! So it's not much a stretch to do the lodging oneself also, for a different week at the same location (or an entirely different location).
The main reason people attend bashes are to have people to ski with. (and us soloist to avoid paying single's supplement). |
On ski club holidays you often have to book your own flights. If you don't like the hotels on offer then you can book your own and just pay for the mountain guide/instructor package. Why shouldn't the Ski Club arrange holidays for its members? OK, in 2018/19 a loss was made due to appallingly bad management, but those responsible have now all been replaced. And of course lots of ski club members band together and organise DIY trips. Personally, I still prefer to book everything through a bonded tour operator for piece of mind. When last season didn't happen, the ski club refunded all holiday bookings in full.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| When last season didn't happen, the ski club refunded all holiday bookings in full. |
Unfortunately, at the same time, the Ski Club's travel insurance decided that COVID wasn't covered, so anyone who'd booked a holiday with an alternative provider was left to hang. Ended my 30-yr (non-contiguous) membership of the SCGB.
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You know it makes sense.
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@snowdave, an alternative, bonded tour operator would have refunded you.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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o anyone who'd booked a holiday with an alternative provider was left to hang
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an alternative, bonded tour operator would have refunded you
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Is that just wording difference? Is a holiday "provider" always a "tour operator"? Airlines, buses? Hotels?
And if I book with a "bonded" TO, do I still need insurance (for cancellation) on top of it?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Gerry, so the ski club's insurance was great for those who didn't need it because their tour operator would refund them - not much of an insurance policy! Anyone not covered in this way was left to hang.
My credit card company stepped in, so for me it was irrelevant, but if I'd needed the insurance, it wasn't there. Most of the travel insurance industry did refund people, so the SCGB seemed to have chosen a policy that was below average in that respect.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| abc wrote: |
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o anyone who'd booked a holiday with an alternative provider was left to hang
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| Quote: |
an alternative, bonded tour operator would have refunded you
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Is that just wording difference? Is a holiday "provider" always a "tour operator"? Airlines, buses? Hotels?
And if I book with a "bonded" TO, do I still need insurance (for cancellation) on top of it? |
I booked flights last year, got a refund. I booked transfers last year, got a refund. I booked an apartment last year, got a refund. That was all for one trip. Obviously, all three of those suppliers initially wanted me to claim on my insurance so they could keep the money. I got a no quibble refund from the package tour operator I booked with.
If you book with a package tour operator in the UK then you are entitled to a refund. It’s not the law that you have to have travel insurance.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Gerry wrote: |
| When last season didn't happen, the ski club refunded all holiday bookings in full. |
That's a legal obligation. They they had no choice.
If SCGB Ltd insurance refused to pay up, then there's a "hall of shame" thread for warning others about that.
I heard that SCGB Ltd didn't refund membership, unlike for example my gym.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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SCGB "We'll meet our minimum legal obligations aren't we good?"
Sounds like a winning strapline.
Plus as y'know a club - fecking the members off to their faces in a greedy cash grab would have been counter productive even for the financial mgt geniuses at the SCGB. So chapeau for recognising that. Shame they lacked traction with their insurers to fight members' corners there.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 5-08-21 8:10; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
Does it matter to rehash the argument of why SCGB failed?
The question is weather a new club be needed and what could it do |
The Ski Club is still going and set to bounce back strongly from the downturn caused by the pandemic. |
A bit like the U.K. post Brexshit? 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Teflon Gerry wrote: |
| Finally something we both agree on, you can't be bothered! |
Once again deflection by the Director who cannot be bothered to answer some simple questions (above) about the serious issue of Reps leading under the radar - even though they have gone onto a public forum and announced how they intend to operate. You are right though, I and others really must stop giving free consultancy. As you say, the club will soon be returning to greatness like an unstoppable force of nature and reaping the rewards of a heaving membership department. Expand the office space. It's so obvious now you've clearly outlined the post pandemic recovery and regeneration plan. How will you cope?
| Teflon Gerry wrote: |
| @MorningGory, well I laugh out loud at the claimed membership figure for snowHeads. |
Well it seems lively enough for August and I'm not sure the figure matters a jot because (1) it's not a membership, it's a forum and (2) it doesn't look like the site sells advertising. The club, meanwhile, does take money for advertising yet the claimed membership figure changes each time someone from the club quotes it. Remember Line-S? The 20,000 students that got a freebie membership. That looked like a number fudge designed to flog advertising and sponsorship. But Teflon Gerry wasn't a Director then so it was the other awful people of course. Oh no, wait, you were!
You talk about failure. Hello? With all the Club's resources and funds, this forum shouldn't really exist. But again, such trivia doesn't pass your massive Director desk, wouldn't dream of suggesting it.
| Teflon Gerry wrote: |
| I'm not aware of any attempt to replace BASI. |
Well of course not Even the likes of me got to hear about it. SCGB wanted some way of giving Reps a recognisable 'qualification' rather than the unrecognised Reps' Course. It turned out to be a pipe dream come wild goose chase and evidently BASI got wind of it and somehow nipped it in the bud. I don't think you'll find it in the Board minutes though because the poor Members just wouldn't understand would they? All those zeros after the £ sign of Members' funds would just confuse them. Thankfully, it didn't go ahead and, like the three wise monkeys as per usual, you know absolutely nothing so that's all OK then.
To jog your memory - Frank McCusker (RIP) was CEO. He joined in the summer of 2012 and passed away June 2017. You were a Director from November 2011 until November 2015. Then you became a Director again in November 2019.
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The idea that the rot only started post @gerry's reign and was stopped and reversed splendidly by his almighty trowel of justice as soon as he'd beaten up the dastardly villians on reappointment has all the makings of a Marvel superhero film, perhaps the second act. Spoiler The snap happens in the third act and up to 2/3 of remaining members dematerialise and he is left desolately wandering the vast emptiness of Tignes having actually paid from his own wallet.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, well, the dates don’t lie. After I’d left council in November 2015 they:
1) Sold the White House but NOT within parameters previously set by Council.
2) Leased and fitted out Connect House at vast expense.
3) Employed a disaster of a CEO who wasted money on a ridiculously ambitious strategic plan to triple the membership in three years and later left without notice.
3) Wasted money on a new website that was unfit for purpose and had to be written off.
4) Sacked the very capable manager of Freshtracks.
5) converted the then Treasurer to CEO, a position he wasn’t qualified for and on an inflated salary he obviously wasn’t worth.
6) Failed to control the finances.
7) wasted more money on a tour operator acquisition.
 Failed to hand back the lease without penalty by initiating the break clause in time.
I know it really upsets you that none of this was my doing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Doesn't upset me. In fact I feel sorry for you that a thing you love so dearly has been so entirely fecked over. But the SCGB presumably had a governance process during that time and competent people can't all have been hoodwinked so either they were incompetent or corrupt in which case members fecked themselves by electing too many bad apples at once. Why were you and other members not up in arms and agitating about these things even "out of power". Members could have chosen to go on subscription "strike" around the ridiculous "we'll run music festivals and summer hiking holidays" plans but they didn't.
Anyway per your list it seems the rot started with the slice of financial liberty granted by flogging the White House which it seems you were involved in pre approving. What shackles did you have the foresight to put on as to how that money was spent. After all spendthrift fools are plentiful and you don't hand your lottery win to one of them.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 5-08-21 18:12; edited 1 time in total
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| Pruman wrote: |
| Teflon Gerry wrote: |
| Finally something we both agree on, you can't be bothered! |
Once again deflection by the Director who cannot be bothered to answer some simple questions (above) about the serious issue of Reps leading under the radar - even though they have gone onto a public forum and announced how they intend to operate. You are right though, I and others really must stop giving free consultancy. As you say, the club will soon be returning to greatness like an unstoppable force of nature and reaping the rewards of a heaving membership department. Expand the office space. It's so obvious now you've clearly outlined the post pandemic recovery and regeneration plan. How will you cope?
| Teflon Gerry wrote: |
| @MorningGory, well I laugh out loud at the claimed membership figure for snowHeads. |
Well it seems lively enough for August and I'm not sure the figure matters a jot because (1) it's not a membership, it's a forum and (2) it doesn't look like the site sells advertising. The club, meanwhile, does take money for advertising yet the claimed membership figure changes each time someone from the club quotes it. Remember Line-S? The 20,000 students that got a freebie membership. That looked like a number fudge designed to flog advertising and sponsorship. But Teflon Gerry wasn't a Director then so it was the other awful people of course. Oh no, wait, you were!
You talk about failure. Hello? With all the Club's resources and funds, this forum shouldn't really exist. But again, such trivia doesn't pass your massive Director desk, wouldn't dream of suggesting it.
| Teflon Gerry wrote: |
| I'm not aware of any attempt to replace BASI. |
Well of course not Even the likes of me got to hear about it. SCGB wanted some way of giving Reps a recognisable 'qualification' rather than the unrecognised Reps' Course. It turned out to be a pipe dream come wild goose chase and evidently BASI got wind of it and somehow nipped it in the bud. I don't think you'll find it in the Board minutes though because the poor Members just wouldn't understand would they? All those zeros after the £ sign of Members' funds would just confuse them. Thankfully, it didn't go ahead and, like the three wise monkeys as per usual, you know absolutely nothing so that's all OK then.
To jog your memory - Frank McCusker (RIP) was CEO. He joined in the summer of 2012 and passed away June 2017. You were a Director from November 2011 until November 2015. Then you became a Director again in November 2019. |
Your ‘facts’ are wrong. Actually the Ski Club was talking to BASI about possibly making the Reps Course a recognised leading qualification.
The Reps Course had been using BASI trainers for years to teach technique and leading skills. The modules within the Reps Course were/are similar to what BASI teach, albeit modified for the role of the Reps.
I wasn’t convinced about Line S at the time but I take collective responsibility for it. What I should have done was taken unpaid leave and gone and studied marketing for several years, then travelled back in time to stop Line S.
You’ll have to interrogate Colin over what he said.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Doesn't upset me. In fact I feel sorry for you that a thing you love so dearly has been so entirely fecked over. But the SCGB presumably had a governance process during that time and competent people can't all have been hoodwinked so either they were incompetent or corrupt in which case members fecked themselves by electing too many bad apples at once. Why were you and other members not up in arms and agitating about these things even "out of power". Members could have chosen to go on subscription "strike" around the ridiculous "we'll run music festivals and summer hiking holidays" plans but they didn't |
As soon as we found out the true extent of the failures we were up in arms. I’d been moaning privately to the Club for a couple years over several issues. One thing, there was no evidence of corruption. It truly was just a boring story of incompetence.
Pruman, why didn’t you stand up? Oh yeah, you couldn’t be bothered!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Interestingly I just looked at Darren Neylon's LinkedIn references
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“Darren is a thoroughly positive, entrepreneurial and dynamic leader, who tackles challenges head on and with gusto. He nevertheless brings intelligence and insight to bear, and is particularly at home with the rapidly evolving world of digital technologies. A straight talker, his enthusiasm and sense of verve make him a pleasure to spend time with.”
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From his stint at the SCGB presumably
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
| bobski62 wrote: |
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Val has brilliantly self organised to fill the gap, but I suspect this may be one of the few resorts that manages this.
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Can you explain more @pisteoff? |
Tignes also as a locals group which includes SCGB members, past and present, and snowheads. Regular evening meetings and other social events. |
As SCGB members on holiday we found the Tignes social group rude and unwelcoming. The SCGB members we met on an ILG day were brilliant
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Poster: A snowHead
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The Eagle Ski Club seems to have a good model, but focused on ski touring. A mix of IFMGA guided and peer trips and effective channels for members to network to arrange their own trips. I’m not a member but would consider applying when I can get my hill fitness back.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Just repeating this for the spectacular vision of the future from those long ago days of late 2018 cos it cracks me up and SCGB are too lazy to take this embarrassing crap down... |
The video is a confusing mish-mash of posh white people skiing and doing other mountain related things.
If anyone manages to watch all the way through, the very last section does explain the purpose of the
otherwise unrelated material: the company aimed to become an all-year-round profit centre, encompassing
maintain sports from cycling through climbing to dry slope racing.
Considering it's a subscription based company that seems rather odd in itself.
To suggest sports like summer Alpine climbing are somehow waiting to be taken over by posh skiers
in search of profits is outstanding in both ignorance and arrogance.
It's very odd. What was the purpose of the video, exactly? Who was the target audience?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@homers double, I concur. Snowheads is perfect for my needs. Also many uk based ski organisations are very France orientated. Not been to France for many years, mainly due to relatively poor hotels and not wanting a chalet holiday under virtually any circumstances. Living in the north the worst part of any car journey is getting to the channel, it normally took as long as getting from Calais to the resort.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| philwig wrote: |
The video is a confusing mish-mash of posh white people skiing and doing other mountain related things. |
There are some non white faces in there. TBH it probably represents the interest in snowsports in the UK from different backgrounds. A lot of the shots showed elderly posh white people, a bit like snowheads really. I'm not really sure why you are focused on the race thing.
Obviously it is trying to show the future, the "next hundred years" of the ski club as they say but they only have a limited budget so there is a lot of bland stock shottery and some real "elderly" ski club members mixed in. It would have cost a fortune to do a film closer to their aspirations. It is supposed to show a journey with the ski club. It is not the kind of marketing stuff I like and I'm not sure the journey is that exciting... it seemed to involve a lot of dancing and jigging around with gaping mouths, mixed in with a bit of snow science - a bit like being snowed in at la Folie Douce for a whole season.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
It's very odd. What was the purpose of the video, exactly? Who was the target audience?
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Yes, it was quite remarkable - I remember being one of a very few that challenged the then CEO on the nonsense. It shows how much SCGB lost its way, and Council (the Board) was unable to control / oversee the purpose of the club. This led to about £4m of losses and nonsense - including acquiring Mountain Tracks and pumping money into misguided over ambition and marketing vanity (and insider 'perks') which did nothing for existing members. This all comes from having a volunteer board (Council) lacking experience and ability to oversee management and Chairman, self interest and bizarre obsession (for a members club) with being a holiday company - and Chairmen (and CEO) who feel they can operate without reference to proper governance, accountability and the membership. Financial oversight has been a disgrace - this is the only issue that has been addressed in part, albeit without openness, that's not enough. This has all been hidden by a misguided desire to hide the dirty washing and avoid the challenging issues brought about by a changing world.
Sadly this continues. @Gerry, is to be congratulated for being the only Director / Council member willing to engage (other than myself - I was thrown of Council and labelled a member of low standing (a category invented for me, I guess I could be flattered) for daring to continue to engage and challenge) ... sadly he then went native ("Chairman is king") .. It isn't just engagement that is needed, there is also a need to build positively on what a wide membership base would want, and stop protecting all too precious self interest of HQ. Council needed strong voices - and still does - instead the Chairman and a weak Council again demands sycophants. Lack of experience means this is not challenged, and we end up with a an (ex) Club that no longer serves its members, is unaccountable, and is irrelevant for the under 50's. I hope this changes, but have lost all belief that it can.
My own view is this is the failure of SCGB - nothing to do with whether a ski club can work. What would a 2020's and beyond, GB skier, resort focussed, member club look like? I do not believe this need will be served by SCGB, hence the thoughts and challenge here. Snowheads does somewhat fill a hole and I admire the way the forum and all of you engage - the question is whether there is room for something more, particularly when it comes to in resort club support of holidaymakers. I think so.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
a bit like being snowed in at la Folie Douce for a whole season
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tee hee. That doesn't sound too bad an ambition for a club 
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| pisteoff wrote: |
| and bizarre obsession (for a members club) with being a holiday company - |
Surely that goes back to CST, who most members seem to think was a good club leader, and Freshtracks being her TO that she'd successfully flogged to SCGB. I've always been mildly interested in understanding how there weren't conflicts of interest there? Or at least her appointment as CEO was the point SCGB turned from being a club to a glorified TO?
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I can't really comment on SCGB, as I've never come across them. When I started skiing four years ago, whenever I Googled a question about equipment etc Snowheads came top or pretty near the top of the search results. Subscription was free and the forum could not have been more helpful. Two extremely friendly members suggested I should try a Bash. Then a total stranger offered to put myself and friend up for the night, so we could catch our preferred flight.
On arriving in the resort, the Snowhead we were sharing a room with took us under his wing for the whole week. He guided us round with the patience of a saint; with the help of some other extremely patient Snowheads; even though, as two complete novices, we must have really cramped their style and spoilt their enjoyment. The same Snowhead did the same the following year, even though we slowed him down and restricted his enjoyment.
As a total beginner, I really can't fault Snowheads. The welcome we were given on the bashes was truly heartwarming. What more could I want from a club or group of like minded strangers? I pay the money to be a Supersnowhead, not because of any discounts I might receive (and frankly, I have no idea what they are) but as by way of a thank you to admin for running it all. And if he gets free skiiing holidays and makes a profit out of it; that's absolutely fine by me and may it long continue.
Why would I need to join another ski club; my "friends" are here.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Fri 6-08-21 11:45; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Awdbugga, I'm not that strange really
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