Maybe people would be more in control on steep icy slopes if they worked on what is in the video, then they wouldn't run the risk of sliding into somebody else.
Perhaps true but then again it’s one thing fully committing to carving steep ice on a closed piste and another when there are other skiers on it. But you shouldn’t take my comments to be critical of people who can ski like that in control on steep ice - I’m just not confident doing it.
I had a similar experience to the ones reported on Face on Trolles above Tignes. All ended well but I travelled miles fortunately missing any hard objects! Came over a roll onto the top of the steep section in GS mode, slight skid at speed send my edges sideways into early morning refrozen corduroy - click click and I was barrelling down sans skis. Obviously I was overreaching my skills - hence how I’m more pragmatic these days!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@jedster:
Yeah, some bits of that one can be really challenging.
At one of the PSBs, I was on it quite high up, and a youth shot down all edges and style, and missed me by about a foot.
Within 10 yards, he missed a female skier who was obviously competent by about the same margin.
With some wit, she shouted after him: "Thanks so much for skiing so fast and close! And without a helmet!"
We both skied down and passed him while he'd stopped.
We were on the road above the last bit when he shot past again, same margin, same carving style.
He managed one turn on the last bit and then lost it and crashed really hard, losing both skis and ended up in a crumpled heap not moving.
I went over to check and he was moaning.
I asked if he was OK and he moaned yes, so I left him.
It's not good to laugh at the misfortunes of others, but I'm sure the gods of skiing were having a chuckle. (Rule 7?)
Maybe people would be more in control on steep icy slopes if they worked on what is in the video, then they wouldn't run the risk of sliding into somebody else.
Perhaps true but then again it’s one thing fully committing to carving steep ice on a closed piste and another when there are other skiers on it.
What is being demonstrated in the video is safer than just hoping to find a soft bit of snow to slow down on, it isn't just something to do on a closed race piste. The main thing he is doing is avoiding rotating the skis, this makes them a lot more predictable even if you get varying amounts of grip, just turn further across the slope if you want to keep a constant speed.
On the first page of this thread I asked whether these videos worked, it was a serious question. I know I can teach people face-to-face how to do what is in this video and I taught myself how to do it by watching other racers, is just watching instructional videos a valid way to learn this kind of thing ?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I find that, as with so much of skiing, dealing with hard/icy slopes is largely a mental thing. The fear of losing control leads to over turning. Once your skis get quickly rotated you will find yourself side slipping and it will be very difficult to do anything other than stand there, heading more-or-less straight down the fall line sideways. By keeping patient and smooth, you will allow the edges to engage and be more in control as a result. Yes, you will be traveling faster and this is where your brain needs to deal with the perception that you are going too fast!
It would, as has been said, be unwise to do this in all situations as you generally encounter plugs of random factors (other people) where you find steeper and icier conditions. It is also unlikely that wider skis or those with a longer radius would be much use for the average skier as you would be in brown pant territory before your patience was rewarded with a meaningful turn!
After all it is free
After all it is free
rjs wrote:
jedster wrote:
rjs wrote:
Maybe people would be more in control on steep icy slopes if they worked on what is in the video, then they wouldn't run the risk of sliding into somebody else.
Perhaps true but then again it’s one thing fully committing to carving steep ice on a closed piste and another when there are other skiers on it.
What is being demonstrated in the video is safer than just hoping to find a soft bit of snow to slow down on, it isn't just something to do on a closed race piste. The main thing he is doing is avoiding rotating the skis, this makes them a lot more predictable even if you get varying amounts of grip, just turn further across the slope if you want to keep a constant speed.
On the first page of this thread I asked whether these videos worked, it was a serious question. I know I can teach people face-to-face how to do what is in this video and I taught myself how to do it by watching other racers, is just watching instructional videos a valid way to learn this kind of thing ?
Totallaly agree about the "just hoping to find a soft bit of snow to to slow down on" bit - it infuriates me when people ski like that near me. But that's not the sensible alternative to fully committing to carving steep ice. The sensible alternative is skiing the fast line slow with lots of pivoting so that your speed never becomes a hazard. This is what I would tend to do if I'm not going to commit to carving - ski a narrow channel at the edge of the piste where the snow is generally a bit grippier (or even nip off the edge). The other valid one is really linked (fairly gentle) traverses with plenty of pivoting to control speed and lose height between traverses.
On the videos, I think it depends on how individuals learn. I've largely learned to ski from watching other people, some reading, a handful of lessons and lots of practice with intent. So it works for me but I know it doesn't work for a lot of people.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
jedster wrote:
On the videos, I think it depends on how individuals learn. I've largely learned to ski from watching other people, some reading, a handful of lessons and lots of practice with intent. So it works for me but I know it doesn't work for a lot of people.
I've never found watching video tutorials makes much of a difference to improving my skiing. Watching videos of me ski is enormously helpful, and using video analysis to help other people improve when they see their own skiing is a powerful tool. But tuition videos, even some of the good ones highlighted in this thread, have never cut the ice for me.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@rob@rar
Yay!
Quote:
Watching videos of me ski . . . is enormously helpful
I think I've seen you ski in real life but I NEED MORE.
C'mon.
Lets have 'em.
You know you want to.
(This is snowHeads. You don't have to say anything but anything you do say will be taken out of context and used against you.)
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rob@rar wrote:
jedster wrote:
On the videos, I think it depends on how individuals learn. I've largely learned to ski from watching other people, some reading, a handful of lessons and lots of practice with intent. So it works for me but I know it doesn't work for a lot of people.
I've never found watching video tutorials makes much of a difference to improving my skiing. Watching videos of me ski is enormously helpful, and using video analysis to help other people improve when they see their own skiing is a powerful tool. But tuition videos, even some of the good ones highlighted in this thread, have never cut the ice for me.
You'd know better than me but I think I'm a bit of an outlier.
I have this weird thing that normally if I see myself on video I look just like I expected I would. The good and the bad.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
A bit of Scottish skiing.
'Comfort Zones'.
Fun Type 1.
Fun Type 2.
I tried this recently and the double pole plant worked really well once I got the hang of it.
It wasn't going that well at first because I was turning in the air and landing with my skis across the fall line rather than down it.
This caused the skis to shoot out from unterneath me resulting in a long backseat traverse.
I tried this recently and the double pole plant worked really well once I got the hang of it.
It wasn't going that well at first because I was turning in the air and landing with my skis across the fall line rather than down it.
This caused the skis to shoot out from unterneath me resulting in a long backseat traverse.
DB,
I'm going to play with that when I get the chance but I have to say I don't really like the double pole plant idea. I tend to focus on reaching down and back with my single pole plant (i.e, reach down the mountain and back towards the tails) I find this get my weight moving through transition fast and the counter set up by reaching back helps the quick rotation. I think planting the uphill pole would tend to work against those triggering motions?
I'm going to play with that when I get the chance but I have to say I don't really like the double pole plant idea. I tend to focus on reaching down and back with my single pole plant (i.e, reach down the mountain and back towards the tails) I find this get my weight moving through transition fast and the counter set up by reaching back helps the quick rotation. I think planting the uphill pole would tend to work against those triggering motions?
I can see what you are saying and suspect that method works better on steep groomed slopes where you want the weight on your outside ski and a quick sharp turn.
The double pole plant enabled me to get the tails off the snow and get the weight more equally onto the front of both skis earlier in the turn.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
DB wrote:
jedster wrote:
I'm going to play with that when I get the chance but I have to say I don't really like the double pole plant idea. I tend to focus on reaching down and back with my single pole plant (i.e, reach down the mountain and back towards the tails) I find this get my weight moving through transition fast and the counter set up by reaching back helps the quick rotation. I think planting the uphill pole would tend to work against those triggering motions?
I can see what you are saying and suspect that method works better on steep groomed slopes where you want the weight on your outside ski and a quick sharp turn.
The double pole plant enabled me to get the tails off the snow and get the weight more equally onto the front of both skis earlier in the turn.
I'd never feel the need of it on a groomed slope - it's much more a steep and tight terrain technique - couloirs or steep trees. I find the big move down the fall line naturally unweights the tails. The other thing that sometimes helps is the mental image of lifting the tails towards your bum / tips down the hill rather than hopping.
But I like playing so I'm going to give it a go.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@jedster,
Yes probably should have said "hard" rather than "groomed" although the Harakiri is 38 Deg.
Here's what I think you might mean. The snow is dense (not light powder) and the skis are coming completley off the snow then coming down with some force, basically jump turns.
With the double pole it looks like they get more snow contact through the turn enabling more speed to be taken out.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@DB, I was taught to plant the pole:
1. With "Extreme" anticipation - so around half way between the back of the binding and tale of the ski....which enabled the skis to turn more easily.
2. Well down the hill, so allowed the turn to be initiated with a kind of Banking, which allowed you to sort of "Fall" downhill into the turn.
If necessary, a jump lifting the tails off the snow, was necessary.
If very steep, you jumped off the U/Hill ski.
This was back some while ago, so thinking may have changed.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 28-01-21 22:06; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
1. With "Extreme" anticipation - so around half way between the back of the binding and tale of the ski....which enabled the skis to turn more easily.
2. Well down the hill, so allowed the turn to be initiated with a kind of Banking, which allowed you to sort of "Fall" downhill into the turn.
That's a better description of what I was trying to say
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Old Fartbag wrote:
@DB, I was taught to plant the pole:
1. With "Extreme" anticipation - so around half way between the back of the binding and tale of the ski....which enabled the skis to turn more easily.
This is the thing I'm unsure of but you have both said the same and could well be right.
Down the hill yes, but to the side of the foot is what I think I do, not behind the binding.
I'd have thought a pole plant down the hill but back behind the binding could cause dropping of the inside shoulder and over rotation.
I'll have a play next time I find something steep to ski.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
DB wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
@DB, I was taught to plant the pole:
1. With "Extreme" anticipation - so around half way between the back of the binding and tale of the ski....which enabled the skis to turn more easily.
This is the thing I'm unsure of but you have both said the same and could well be right.
Down the hill yes, but to the side of the foot is what I think I do, not behind the binding.
I'd have thought a pole plant down the hill but back behind the binding could cause dropping of the inside shoulder and over rotation.
I'll have a play next time I find something steep to ski.
This is much closer to what myself and (I believe) Jedster are talking about (from around 47 secs).
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Old Fartbag,
Gotcha.
Will be interesting to see if that works with softer / chopped up snow too.
Suspect the above technique works best in very tight couloirs with icy hard snow.
The first few seconds during the intro he is in a tight couloir with softer snow and he is using a slightly different technique (jump turns).
Last thursday it was a mixture of death cookies, breakable crust, heavy powder with a slight skin on it (windblown) and scrapped off hard stuff. Basically powder that the sun, wind and previous skiers had made it more difficult to ski.
The double pole plant really helped to get the ski tails out of the snow making it easier than with the single pole plant I normally use.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
DB wrote:
@Old Fartbag,
Suspect the above technique works best in very tight couloirs with icy hard snow.
The first few seconds during the intro he is in a tight couloir with softer snow and he is using a slightly different technique (jump turns).
Last thursday it was a mixture of death cookies, breakable crust, heavy powder with a slight skin on it (windblown) and scrapped off hard stuff. Basically powder that the sun, wind and previous skiers had made it more difficult to ski.
The double pole plant really helped to get the ski tails out of the snow making it easier than with the single pole plant I normally use.
I can see that.
Obviously on hard snow it is better to keep the skis on the snow as much as possible as he was demonstrating but if you need to clear the tails from crud you can just add a little pop to what he is demonstrating but take you point that the second pole plant might help with that. I do find that thinking of the pop as "tails to bum" rather than vertical jump makes things much easier and smoother.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
jedster wrote:
I do find that thinking of the pop as "tails to bum" rather than vertical jump makes things much easier and smoother.
I think we are very much on the same page.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Re: Jump turns: double pole plant: another take on that here.
Good to practice on easier terrain first, as shown, eh?
@Fat George, If I did 2 Pole jump turns, at some point I'd not get the U/Hill poll lifted in time and the tails would ski into it, putting me on my head!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Old Fartbag
Well, yes, me too.
But he does do a great job of getting the pole out of the way in the video, doesn't he?
Kind of underlines the need to practice and get that rhythm ingrained . . . ??
If you get them wrong in heavier deeper powder, jump turns can give you the feeling that your legs have been caught in a lasso and then you go over sideways.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 28-01-21 19:03; edited 1 time in total
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Pretty much all of his pole plants with his outside hand are withdrawn from the snow before his inside hand (so his ski tails don't crash in to his pole if he overdoes the ski rotation). That's going to take a lot of practice to get that movement to be instinctive.
There's absolutely no argument coming from me.
We are just discussing different ski techniques and trying to work out what technique works in which situation/snow condition.
I was actually agreeing with your double pole planting clips and was just interested if you had tried them and how it worked out for you.
This is one of the few ski related threads and it's a thread that hasn't descended into some sort of political, BREXIT or argument rubbish and I was quite enjoying it.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
DB wrote:
There's absolutely no argument coming from me.
Me neither, I use a range of different pole plants when I'm teaching, all useful, all have place.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@DB
OK fair enough & fair point. No I haven't mastered the double pole plant, and I just wish I had! Single seemed easier - coordination involved is less I imagine and I'm not all that athletic.
I was well into the beers, such is lockdown, but I'm keeping quiet until the morrow now!
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
she is also in our expert level guide video 
