(I‘ve been selling the benefits of narrower winter tyres on here for the last 20 years or so).
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
You can tell when we are properly into the ski season when there is a very long topic on the merits of winter tyres/chains
FWIW, my opinion is having winter tyres is the most useful option, it allows you to drive safely in all kinds of varying winter conditions. Summer tyres are rubbish in wintry conditions and should not be allowed in mountainous area in winter conditions. It just causes problems for everyone else on the road.
If you have 2WD and winter tyres then it's likely you will still need chains too in deep snow. If you have 4WD and winter tyres it's highly unlikely you will ever need chains in snow, but I always take a set 'just in case'.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@ski3 Yes, you're right about the ET as an additional parameter for new wheels you intend to fit to your car. There's also the issue that optional larger performance brakes (like the BMW M Performance on my car) mean that those new winter wheels (or whizzy replacement summer ones) conform to the parameters of width, diameter and ET specified by the manufacturer - but still won't fit, because they foul the brake callipers. This is why reputable wheel/tyre outfits will always test-fit new wheels first before mounting a tyre on them, as wheel manufacturers won't take back a wheel that's had a tyre fitted to it.
The main point though, is that if you buy or rent chains, you can't go just on the sole basis of the tyre size alone. You must check first that the wheels you've got on the car can even take chains at all. I can buy conventional chains for my summer 245/35-18 wheels, but it'd be a disaster if I actually fitted them. The Owners Manual is clear that this size doesn't take chains.
If this means you end up getting new wheels for your winter tyres, then don't just go on the Internet and buy them randomly on the basis of them being 7.5Jx17 or whatever - you'll need to be sure of the ET, PCD and if you have performance brakes that they will fit over those as well. So overall it's best to consult an expert and let them deal with the complexities.
@Cacciatore, they (freelancer 2) have really good 4WD transmission that works well for both drive and braking. Later they shifted away from this, to their detriment in many views.
Have to say, I will be sorry to see it go in some regards. The HSE version has all the terrain management system, and its been used frequently. Most fun? Driving up a red piste (and down) in late Autumn to help a friend get his beer delivery in for the winter season for his Hutte business. Whatever Land Rover’s various reliability issues, they’re awesome when the going demands it. Well, IME, obviously.
Is this the 5-minute argument or the full half-hour one?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
We do like to be thorough with these things
After all it is free
After all it is free
Maybe things have changed a bit with climate change, but I've been caught out loads of times and had to put chains on over winter tyres. (Not on a 4WD)
Most times I was lucky enough to have a set of chains on board, but it was always a giant phaaf putting them on in the dark and snowy storm when you have already been driving since before dawn.
I've got a set of very expensive chains for a BMW 7 series down the shed(for the last 25 years), that I had to buy for £200 one morning after not being able to get over a slight hump in the road on route to Leogang at Easter.
The garage "saw me coming" .... the chains had to be fitted with the wheels off the ground they said.
I had to use them them for about 50 meters
So I've learnt to always use winter tyres in the alps and be prepared for anything.
Such as having to find a hotel room late at night on Easter weekend.
Sox seem a great idea to me .. they sound easier to put on and off, you wont need them for long.
I've not got not got any yet, and probably never drive that way again (That sounds sad )
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That's almost a Land Rover advertising script right there @Cacciatore,
Hope you got to test the quality of the beer, strictly technical purposes you understand can't be too careful when customers are at stake.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
ski3 wrote:
That's almost a Land Rover advertising script right there @Cacciatore,
Hope you got to test the quality of the beer, strictly technical purposes you understand can't be too careful when customers are at stake.
The hut owner is usually quite generous with the quality testing!
The problem tends to occur when Blasius’ Herb Schnapps comes out….
The Hutte owner is called Blasius, as it happens. He refers to the character in the picture as his grandfather….but he didn’t seem to get it when I expressed my amazement that his grandfather appeared to be Benny Hill….
Anyway, apologies for the thread drift.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
No apology needed, @Cacciatore, entirely to the point.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Jumping in on this as I've been reading with interest. We normally fly, but have decided that for Easter 2024, we're going to drive. Looking at La Plagne, Les Saises, Avoriaz and Les Arcs (research still underway). We have a Range Rover Evoque, and Mr. Owlette has put Continentals on it, but summer ones. He was pretty aghast at the price difference for all season tyres, as the summer ones are already very expensive.
Arguably, as Easter 2024 is in April, we don't legally have to have chains or socks, but we also realise that it's probably not wise. We have considered socks as it's later in the season, so less likely to be caught in heavy snow and ice.
As ever, happy to take all experience and advice on board.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Much as I am an advocate for Les Saisies (and will be there first week in April this year as the grandchildren won't think of going anywhere else) it's not the best location for end of season, as the skiing is below 2000m. I have just put Michelin Cross Climate tyres on my car and was pleased with how reasonable they are, but that's just one of the advantages of having a cheap car.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Owlette, yeah all of your other 3 options are higher. That said, we did drive across to Samoens a few years ago with about 20cms in the base car park when we arrived ...
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Owlette I don't think that any UK SUVs should have summer tyres fitted, ex-factory. They should have all-seasons on by default unless they're a high-performance version like the BMW X5M etc. It's just crazy that manufactures are still doing this (fitting summers). Associated with this stupidity, they're also fitting ridiculously low-profile wheels to match, so that an owner ends up with having to pay for new wheels as well as tyres. A lot of the merry-go-round of discussions here arises from the annoying fact that you've basically got the wrong wheels and tyres, but that swapping them is a big - and usually unbudgeted - expense. And unless the current tyres are due for replacement, you're being asked to throw away perfectly serviceable originals. But there's not a lot that can square this circle, I'm afraid, because the manufacturers have already dropped you in it, so to speak.
If money was no object then I'd say just remove your summer tyres and fit some all-seasons with the 3-Peaks-&-Snowflake* designation, then get some chains (*that’s a snow-biased all-season, as opposed to a warm-biased one).
But I appreciate that this might be a difficult decision. You may only intend to have the car for 3-4 years before changing it. You may not necessarily ever go to the Alps again in it. All I'd say in response is that switching to all-seasons will still be a good idea for wet and cool UK winters and late autumn/early spring. With the added bonus of being useful for an Alpine trip as well. Plus if you do drive on any rough and muddy tracks/fields they'll be much better than the smooth summers. And if you can store your original summers, then you could swap them 'round every summer to get at least some mileage out of them. Re the chains, the odds are much higher they'll never see the outside of their box. Certainly not in April. But they're insurance and if you are planning to drive to more winter holidays, then the cost can at least be averaged-out over all your trips.
So if you're lucky, you can just swap the summers for all-seasons and get some conventional chains.
But there are various reasons why this might be problematic. First, if you have very low-profile wheels then there may not be an all-season tyre in their size. You're then faced with the expense of buying new wheels as well as new tyres. Second, and independently, you need to be sure that the wheels you have or any new ones can take chains at all (because they may not leave enough space behind the wheel for conventional chains to rotate). In that case you'll be looking at £300+ front-fitting chains.
And apologies to everyone who has seen this before, and I've tried to hold back so far, but this chart what I drew may help clarify the options:
The real problem area is the zone 2/3rd of the way across: where wet tarmac transitions to slush and snow and particularly if it's cyclic (i.e. back to tarmac, then to snow, then back ...). Arguably, this is more likely on a journey in the spring rather than the winter. And this is the forté of all-seasons and winters: you don't have to do anything to address these conditions - the tyres are on the car and ready to go. With chains, diving on tarmac is almost a complete no-no and pretty impractical if you're cycling between tarmac/slush/snow. You can't keep stopping every 500m to take them off / put them on again. And while socks can be excellent on snow, they're not going to last long in cyclic conditions and you still have to stop to put them on. Even if the transition from tarmac to snow isn't 'cyclic' you have to ask yourself just what you're going to do when you get to this zone, you're in a line of vehicles equipped with winters/all-seasons, and there's nowhere immediate to pull off to fit your socks:
The snowploughs (one of which pretty much forces me into deep snow at the right side of the road) have already pushed the snow over to the extent that even where there is a stopping place, even on winter tyres, I couldn't have pushed through it. If you tried to pull off on summers you'd just get stuck part-way into the piled-up snow. And if you were still on summers I'd seriously doubt that you could get that far here without eventually sliding into the ditch.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sun 15-01-23 8:02; edited 7 times in total
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
When I bought tyres recently good all-season tyres were only a few quid more than ordinary tyres. I can't get my head round manufacturers who produce "go anywhere" rough and tough cars advertised roaring over bumpy moorland but which are impractical for driving to the Alps on holiday and crippled by a puncture.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
All season tyre=putting chains on. Winter tyres, more sips, no chains needed, no chains round your drive shafts or flapping about ripping holes in your bodywork. or brake pipes, I leave winters on all year.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
My all season tyres performed as well in tests as most winters. they have the mountain symbol on, and if it's so bad I need chains in April, I'll put chains on in good time and be grateful to the snow gods.
Hmmmm. Have just gone onto Black Circles, which is where we get our tyres, and put in husbands reg. When asked to choose which type of tyre, it only gives me the option of All-Season or Winter. So perhaps they're not summer ones after all.
He's out at the moment, so I shall quiz him properly when he gets back.
Thank you all for the feedback. And thank you @pam w, for the continued thoughts on Les Saises. Will take that out of the equation.
We want to do Easter as we can relax and take our time on the drive as we'll gave two weeks of the school holidays to play with, not the one you get in February. We plan on stopping overnight somewhere along the way.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
pam w wrote:
My all season tyres performed as well in tests as most winters. they have the mountain symbol on, and if it's so bad I need chains in April, I'll put chains on in good time and be grateful to the snow gods.
+1
Also, my bog-standard Golf won't take normal chains on its UK-spec wheels, which are '0.5J' too big. The problem is the wheel width, not the tyre, possibly for the reasons @LaForet has described earlier. So I've had to get fancy front-mounting chains, which are more expensive of course,even second-hand. I'm not worried about any decent chains breaking and shredding brake pipes etc, and I'm sure my all-season tyres have more than enough sipes to do almost as good a job as the full winter tyres I had on my previous car.
On the way to Nassfeld from Vienna, Austria a year ago we were hit by heavy snow on the way down. The guy who offered to drive (a Canadian) in a 2WD with winter tyres asked whether we would need chains which was surprising for 2 reasons 1)it‘s common practice in Austrian to carry chains even if you have winter tyres. 2) He asked shortly before our journey.
People with 4wd and winter tyres don‘t always carry chains as it‘s highly unlikely that that they will be required but most others do - even when they have winter tyres.
To cut a longer story short a 4 hr 30 min journey turned into 12 he 30 mins (arrived at 5:30 am instead of 10 pm). The motorway was blocked so we tried to take an alternative route.
If we had been equipped with chains we would have knocked at least 4 hrs off the journey.
We tried to drive behind a snow plough in the hope that a freshly cleared road would be doable with a 2WD with winter tyres. We couldn’t get up one hill even after getting everyone but the driver out of the car and trying to push. It wasn‘t the fresh snow but compacted snow and ice that caught us out. We were slipping and sliding in our sports shoes.
What was interesting was that 2 cars drove up the hill while we were attempting it - a 2WD with chains and a 4WD without chains (both had winter tyres). The 4WD got a better run up and overtook the 2WD car although I suspect the traction control was kicking in and slowing the 2WD car down. (Probably best to read the car’s manual on how to set the traction control on the car when using snow chains).
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
nevis1003 wrote:
All season tyre=putting chains on. Winter tyres, more sips, no chains needed, no chains round your drive shafts or flapping about ripping holes in your bodywork. or brake pipes, I leave winters on all year.
This is a fair point. Without wishing to complicate the decision, what’s being highlighted here is the gap in the diagram at the right-hand side of the all-seasons vs winter horizontal bar i.e. where winters are still working OK but all-seasons need you to fit the chains as conditions progressively worsen.
If you already have a set of new or newish summers, and intend to swap back to them in the Spring (so as to exploit the mileage left in the summers), then you might reasonably decide that you might as well get full winter tyres. Especially if the summers still have a few summers worth of mileage in them.
The decision is more finely-balanced if your summers don’t have much mileage left in them and will probably be discarded anyway. If that’s the case then you’re balancing the advantage of winters in being able to go further (before needing chains) against the inconvenience and cost of swapping everything over twice a year. If you don’t have anywhere to store the unused set that may also be a factor.
In my case the decision was easy because on my car that gap between all-seasons and winters on both the right (snow) and left (summer) side is amplified by it being a 330BHP rear-wheel-drive performance model. And I have plenty of garage space to store the unused set of wheels/tyres. But for many non-performance vehicles the gap is smaller and owners opt for the convenience option of all-seasons. Really, only the owner can make that decision.
And as mentioned, all this cost and effort can be compromised if you have no idea what your vehicles traction settings for snow and chains should be, and can’t readily set them while moving.
After all it is free
After all it is free
nevis1003 wrote:
All season tyre=putting chains on. Winter tyres, more sips, no chains needed, no chains round your drive shafts or flapping about ripping holes in your bodywork. or brake pipes, I leave winters on all year.
Thats a huge generalisation, purely because "all season" type has such variance within that range. As pointed out by pamw, the measurable performance in test against peer/other catatgories doesn't support your overall view of reduced performance in many cases.
Many people just don't want to, or in reality need to swap tyres, rims etc to make safe use of their vehicle throughout the year and in different surface conditions. They are a perfectly viable choice for many when used for their intended purpose.
In reality they should really be considered "normal" tyres in my view.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Ozboy wrote:
I have a Merc e-class estate with 4Matic to which I am running Michelin Cross Climate 2 all-season tyres. I've been driving to Chatel for over 5 years (2-3 trips per winter) where we have encountered some severe snow conditions both on route and in resort (we live up a 1Km 10pct incline, seldom ploughed), as well as torrential rain. No issues to date with lack of traction when other [CH] cars and busses around us have been stuck or stopped to install chains going up the Pas du Morgins. I do have a pair of expensive easy-fit Thule chains in the back of the car and to date I've never had to use them - but I would never leave home without them including an old avi shovel, scaffolding gloves and a head-torch packed in the bag. I really like the Cross-Climates and think they are also great around London in the wet winter for added traction.
Tyre Reviews youtube channel has some really good comparison tests:
Definitely a capable choice in that a true (driven all the time 4WD transmission) competently executed from manufacturer holds subtle advantages over other systems in practical use.
Those tyres too. They are assumed on here and elsewhere to be of similar design constraints to other more conventional technology approaches. In reality they are entirely different, unlike others in reliance on soft rubber, these are more or less pure geometry. Other manufacturers are slowly picking up on what they did here, Michelin that is, with some virtually indistinguishable copies coming to market. They really did think and approached it from a different angle to provide this solution and can't be judged by the same criteria if discussion of tread temperature and performance in low ambient conditions is the measure.
They are a different type of tyre entirely as I understand them.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
DB wrote:
On the way to Nassfeld from Vienna, Austria a year ago we were hit by heavy snow on the way down. The guy who offered to drive (a Canadian) in a 2WD with winter tyres asked whether we would need chains which was surprising for 2 reasons 1)it‘s common practice in Austrian to carry chains even if you have winter tyres. 2) He asked shortly before our journey.
People with 4wd and winter tyres don‘t always carry chains as it‘s highly unlikely that that they will be required but most others do - even when they have winter tyres.
To cut a longer story short a 4 hr 30 min journey turned into 12 he 30 mins (arrived at 5:30 am instead of 10 pm). The motorway was blocked so we tried to take an alternative route.
If we had been equipped with chains we would have knocked at least 4 hrs off the journey.
We tried to drive behind a snow plough in the hope that a freshly cleared road would be doable with a 2WD with winter tyres. We couldn’t get up one hill even after getting everyone but the driver out of the car and trying to push. It wasn‘t the fresh snow but compacted snow and ice that caught us out. We were slipping and sliding in our sports shoes.
What was interesting was that 2 cars drove up the hill while we were attempting it - a 2WD with chains and a 4WD without chains (both had winter tyres). The 4WD got a better run up and overtook the 2WD car although I suspect the traction control was kicking in and slowing the 2WD car down. (Probably best to read the car’s manual on how to set the traction control on the car when using snow chains).
There's some, ahem "advanced" techniques that could be used in that situation. Now known as "hacks" by popular description of todays youth
The technical failure initially is that with an differential in the two wheel drive car when one wheel looses traction, then all of the engine torque is directed to that wheel uselessly in this scenario. It's just a compromise of how a differential works, needing to be in equilibrium to drive both wheels which mostly happens until you throw snow into the equation.
Effectively, there's ultimately one wheel drive (the spinning wheel) with no effort going to the other driven wheel, with inevitable result as you described.
The differential needing equilibrium, if you gently squeeze the brakes while carefully using the throttle simultaneously, then eventually the torque becomes equal across that differential based on brake disc friction, at which point both will drive equally. This immediately doubles your traction point (back to two) and divides the torque at the tyre grip area by the same amount, meaning both tyres now try to move the mass with each having less friction demand at road surface.
No, it's not for planned journey with competent preparation, but it can just get you out of that scenario or perhaps someone getting out of a carpark etc without needing to put chains or other on for a few meters.
There's a slight proviso in that many vehicles will quench power output initially (the ecu monitors the brake light circuit to determine) with the driver seing a loss of power, but if you keep the brakes constantly "lit" with light pedal pressure then the ecu comes back to allowing more throttle. Used with care it'll often get the car moving along slowly such that you can get out of the immediate predicament to consider further what you are going to do.
Extreme measures, the passengers should sit over the front wheels to improve traction not for everyone though
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I just looked in the boot of my car this mornng .. the bit under the flap where we used to keep spare wheels.
I found a set of snow socks.. I cannot remember buying them, never used them, never practiced.
I've got to work out if they go on the front or the back tyres now. I'll go and see what size they are.
There was a long list of sizes on the pack ...
The tyres on this car are all climate tyres, but they dont have that "three peaks" stamp .. Mitchelin Latitude.
I'm a bit miffed at that.
Perhaps if I've got nothing to do in the summer I'll practice putting them on.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
We are heading out for the first time this year and this was one of the big topics. We've got a 4WD (SQ5) so that helps. After lots of considering I managed to find a second hand set (but new) of wheels and winter tyres. Haven't gone for chains as the only ones that fit are the very expensive ones due to the clearance available but have got some socks just in case I really need them. Hopefully the 4WD will do its stuff combined with the winter wheels meaning we should be fine unless it really really dumps it down... then I expect the fact I need the socks won't be the problem more the fact that traffic will just be complete chaos.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 18-01-23 22:43; edited 1 time in total
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Rob_Quads, I’m sure you’ll be fine and good shout on new rims and Winter tyres
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
You can pick up a set of low profile snow chains like Thule/Konig K-summit for reasonable money, it’s worth finding out which model you’d need and setting an eBay alert. I have a set of K-34’s for my M2 that I picked up unused for £110, instead of £350+. Even in Scotland I’ve found the limit of winter tyres (conti TS830P) so a set of chains like this in the boot is cheap insurance.
I’ve got winters (Michelin pilot alpin suv) on the wife’s Macan too but with a 20” 295 wide rear tyre I’m sure I’ll find it’s limit too! If I was ever going to drive it abroad I’d pick up chains for all they’d cost. The last one we had with the same tyres did feel pretty unstoppable though!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Rob_Quads Your winter tyres make the socks redundant, pretty much. As you can see from the diagram further up. The only situation where socks might augment winters is if the winters have fallen below the 4mm wear limit: they’d still be effective in terms of cold-oriented tread compound, but their snow adhesion will be degraded, so you might carry socks to get you through the snow. But frankly, I’d just replace the winters at the 4mm point.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
LaForet wrote:
@Rob_Quads Your winter tyres make the socks redundant, pretty much. As you can see from the diagram further up. .
Yup I am not expecting to really use them but in the scenario where the police say "You must fit chains or you're not going up the hill" I have something I can fit and continue up the hill
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Rob_Quads wrote:
LaForet wrote:
@Rob_Quads Your winter tyres make the socks redundant, pretty much. As you can see from the diagram further up. .
Yup I am not expecting to really use them but in the scenario where the police say "You must fit chains or you're not going up the hill" I have something I can fit and continue up the hill
When police cordoned a road a few years back and were checking tyres, they waived me through with a 4x4 and good wînters. No questions asked about socks/chains
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
mooney058 wrote:
Rob_Quads wrote:
LaForet wrote:
@Rob_Quads Your winter tyres make the socks redundant, pretty much. As you can see from the diagram further up. .
Yup I am not expecting to really use them but in the scenario where the police say "You must fit chains or you're not going up the hill" I have something I can fit and continue up the hill
When police cordoned a road a few years back and were checking tyres, they waived me through with a 4x4 and good wînters. No questions asked about socks/chains
Here's a real life example of how tyre size can affect snowchain usage.
My summer tyres are 18" (215/50R18).
According to the manufacturer the following winter tyres can be used
Option 1 - 205/65R16. Max chain size 10mm.
Option 2 - 215/55R17. Max chain size 7mm
It looks like snow chains cannot be used on 18" tyres.
Went with option 1 but the chains I ordered from amazon showed a chain size of 9 mm but they are actually 12mm so I have to send them back.
Generally the thinner the chains the less sturdy they are (more likely to break / snap under load)
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
"Do not use self-tensioning snow chains" is interesting. Mine purported to be that, but I always tried to stop fairly soon and invariably could hoick them up another couple of links. I don't have strong hands and other people could probably have done them up tighter to start with.
A friend running a chalet used self tensioning chains on front wheel drive minibus, absolutely hated them as they never RELIABLY did this.
Interesting Note about "we recommend that you switch the stability control system off" and could be quite significant.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I don't even know if I've got one of those. I doubt it.
After all it is free
After all it is free
You may have a button marked "DSC" or "TC" on your dash, or it may be in a menu if your car has a digital screen/menus to play with, usually under vehicle settings.
If a button, press until it, or a warning on the dash, illuminates amber. The dash image will be a car with wavy skid marks. In any menu it will be a simple on/off decision.
DSC / Traction takes readings from all four wheel speed sensors. If it identifies a difference in speed between wheels it will either reduce throttle, or apply some cadence braking to the faster wheel/wheels to bring all four wheels back to the same speed.
Because chains effectively make the wheel larger, it rotates more slowly over a given distance than the unchained wheel.
If you leave DSC on, the car will think the non-chained wheels are turning faster (they are) and will apply braking to those wheels. This is.... not a good thing in limited traction situations.
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This emphasises the importance of reading the Owners Manual to see what traction setting you use for snow and chains. They usually also apply equally to sand and fine gravel. Sometimes there's just a clear button to push with a snowflake symbol on it but often the descriptions get mired in acronym-speak and lack of clarity of what buttons to press when. This isn't something you want to be reading through as the snowline rapidly approaches.
In most BMWs you press the 'car-with-wiggly-lines' button next to the shift stick when you move onto snow/sand/gravel and TRACTION is displayed on the instrument cluster in front of you. When you move back onto tarmac, you press the button again and the TRACTION disappears. You can do this while the car is on the move - you don't have to stop. When you turn the ignition off, it reverts to the default, so if you're starting on snow, you need to go through the process again. You can safely do this as a test on dry roads back home, just for familiarisation, but be aware it alters the usual traction safety settings that prevent oversteer, so it's something you want to do a quiet, straight bit of dry road at low speed.
What confuses the 250-word description in the BMW Owners Manual are lengthy references to DSC, DTC etc. and what each does in terms of stability control in different conditions and how they overlap functionally. When all you want to know is 'What button do I press when I'm on snow?'.
And if you have an auto box then it's also worth knowing how to disengage the auto when the engine isn't running, in case you're being pulled out of a snowdrift. While you can engage [N] with the engine running, it defaults to [P] if the engine is off and you can't normally set it to [N]. However, it is possible - but you have to follow a particular sequence of brake pedal and shift stick settings to do so. Again, not something you want to be researching in a driving crisis. It's also useful to know how to do this for when your car is being loaded onto a flatbed recovery vehicle, but with the engine off.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
NoDosh wrote:
You may have a button marked "DSC" or "TC" on your dash, or it may be in a menu if your car has a digital screen/menus to play with, usually under vehicle settings.
If a button, press until it, or a warning on the dash, illuminates amber. The dash image will be a car with wavy skid marks. In any menu it will be a simple on/off decision.
DSC / Traction takes readings from all four wheel speed sensors. If it identifies a difference in speed between wheels it will either reduce throttle, or apply some cadence braking to the faster wheel/wheels to bring all four wheels back to the same speed.
Because chains effectively make the wheel larger, it rotates more slowly over a given distance than the unchained wheel.
If you leave DSC on, the car will think the non-chained wheels are turning faster (they are) and will apply braking to those wheels. This is.... not a good thing in limited traction situations.
I understand all that, but it states "Note, the antilock braking system continues to correctly operate" so monitoring is still being carried out. Its a Ford in this case.
The 2004 VW Touran we've used extensively with and without chains, and without any need to change any function.
Yes that is fitted with traction control, anti lock and stability program too.
Stability program can be at different levels from different manufacturers. VW system uses yaw sensor mounted roughly in vehicle centre that can detect vehicle's direction in comparison to steering input, and suppliment that with individual braking of rear wheels particularly (not limited to those as I understand) to "steer" the vehicle and bring it back to asked for trajectory, that's traction allowing.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
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