@dw832, It is not sexist. Read the link that @rob@rar posted on the previous page. There are many reasons that women seek out single sex classes, and “nervousness” is just one of them.
There are any number of reasons that slope access may be restricted at a particular time. Like swimming pools, they run to a schedule, which may include private bookings, school classes, maintenance, age restrictions and club sessions. The key is to check the schedule before you turn up.
@slopemad, If they don't run a session that appeals to you at a time you can attend, why not fill in a feedback form and let them know what you're looking for? If there's enough call for a particular session, they might decide to try it.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
dw832 wrote:
Classes for ‘nervous’ skiers of whatever gender are probably what are needed rather than the assumption that the clients for such classes must be female.
.
This x 100
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
dw832 wrote:
Classes for ‘nervous’ skiers of whatever gender are probably what are needed rather than the assumption that the clients for such classes must be female.
Hmmm, isn't that statement in itself in danger of assuming that the clients for the female only sessions are there because they are nervous. Surely there are other reasons?
(although I agree that sessions aimed at nervous skiiers irrespective of gender might well be welcome, there are certainly nervous male skiers too)
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 26-12-18 19:52; edited 1 time in total
I hope I'm not breaking any rules of the forum here but I'd be interested in the views of other forum users.
Chill Factore in Manchester has a women only session. I see this as sexism as one sex (men) are discriminated against purely on account of their sex. Am I wrong or am I right?
In a strict sense, you are right. But shouty Guardianistas won't allow you to say it.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
" Is it hurting men if a group of women have their own ski lessons?"
Well yes, because for the 3 hours of the women only session (not ski lessons) they are excluded from being able to use the place. Women do not experience a similar exclusion.
I wonder how relaxed everyone would be if there was, for example, a whites only session? Or is discrimination OK provided it's discrimination against men?
IIRC they also have an "over 50's" session which could also be seen as discriminatory , but I honestly believe that all the relevant "exclusivities " are just the management trying fill the slopes as much as possible and at the same time to provide a good environment for people to be introduced to a technically challenging sport , and therefore sometimes yes discrimination can be ok
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Dear me, you are like a dog with a bone. How about this (spoiler, it requires a bit of subjective judgement rather than black and white rules so sorry if this is difficult for you)
Discrimination is generally bad but can be acceptable if it helps achieve a desirable goal
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
Discrimination is generally bad but can be acceptable if it helps achieve a desirable goal
Is it?! Seems like a slippery slope, particularly defining what is a "desirable goal". If you are positively discriminating there is always going to be someone unfairly losing out. Look at the Harvard university issue going on in the states right now - they used positive discrimination to bring in more students from some ethnic minorities. While it was with good intentions, the trouble was a number of asian-americans missed out getting a place, even though they were more qualified, just because because their ethnicity was overrepresented.
At the least they should give men a chance to ski at the same price as the women are getting. This would be more fair and has no impact on women.
Quote:
just the management trying fill the slopes
I'm speculating, but it doesn't seem like a good move financially. It's 40% cheaper than a regular ticket so you are requiring nearly double the number than a normal 2 hour time. That's assuming that all the women there are only skiing because it's the women's only session - I suspect going then because it's cheaper and maybe quieter is more of a factor and most women don't really care about men being around. That combined with the fact that skiing is a prominently male hobby seems so you are missing out on a big piece of your market seems like a financially poor strategy
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
boarder2020 wrote:
At the least they should give men a chance to ski at the same price as the women are getting. This would be more fair and has no impact on women.
They do. Wednesday mornings, 7am-9am, £15 a session and you get a free bacon butty. Open to all. Its the same price as the monthly ladies only session.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
They do. Wednesday mornings, 7am-9am, £15 a session and you get a free bacon butty. Open to all. Its the same price as the monthly ladies only session.
If we are being pedantic - they need to offer the same number of sessions per week to men and women at the cheaper rate. Hardly think it's asking for much, white men under 50 would still have 2 mornings a week they can't even access the slope.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:
They do. Wednesday mornings, 7am-9am, £15 a session and you get a free bacon butty. Open to all. Its the same price as the monthly ladies only session.
If we are being pedantic - they need to offer the same number of sessions per week to men and women at the cheaper rate. Hardly think it's asking for much, white men under 50 would still have 2 mornings a week they can't even access the slope.
Well, the pedantry can go on. It'd be two days a month. Ladies Only is first Tuesday of the month, Over 50s is the last Tuesday of the month. Basically, blokes under 50 can't ski on some Tuesday mornings.
But aren't we supposed to be at work anyway?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
FWIW the last Ski Club survey showed that 66% of skiers/snowboarders are men and only 34% women, so there's evidently an imbalance and if this is a policy that can help redress that, then it seems like a good idea.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@iainm, which ski club?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
iainm wrote:
FWIW the last Ski Club survey showed that 66% of skiers/snowboarders are men and only 34% women, so there's evidently an imbalance and if this is a policy that can help redress that, then it seems like a good idea.
If there is such an imbalance is it because women are choosing not go get involved because I can't see any barriers stopping anyone from skiing or snowboard except for the expense. And IF there is an imbalance is it OK to stop one gender from using the facilities, especially when there's no actual proof that the women who go to the women only sessions at Chill Factore only go there because it's a women only session?
Chill Factore have stated that they run the women only session to encourage women. However, they cannot or will not provide information that shows that the women who go to the session are only there because it's a women only session. If Chill Factore want to encourage under-represented groups to get involved in skiing and snowboarding then I suggested that they should have a BAME only session as there are few non-BAME people there, certainly less than the 10%+ BAME population of Greater Manchester. They are not going to do that which means that their claim that the women only session is to encourage an under-represented demographic (non evidence provided to support their claim) is plain rubbish.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@boisdevie, do you need to get out more?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Thornyhill wrote:
boisdevie wrote:
Arno wrote:
My heart goes out to all the men who are oppressed by this terrible policy
I wonder if you'd find it so comic if Chill Factore had a no gay people session or a no black people session. Descrimination on the basis of sex is just as bad as that on the basis of ethnicity or sexual orientation.
I can give you some advice which should help you through life.
I hope I'm not breaking any rules of the forum here but I'd be interested in the views of other forum users.
Chill Factore in Manchester has a women only session. I see this as sexism as one sex (men) are discriminated against purely on account of their sex. Am I wrong or am I right?
It's the usual millennial crybaby stuff unfortunately. I can understand having a kids only session but anything else is just stupid, imo.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
FWIW the last Ski Club survey showed that 66% of skiers/snowboarders are men and only 34% women, so there's evidently an imbalance and if this is a policy that can help redress that, then it seems like a good idea.
If there is such an imbalance is it because women are choosing not go get involved because I can't see any barriers stopping anyone from skiing or snowboard except for the expense.
Barriers to entry are not always obvious, and just because you don't see them it doesn't mean they aren't there. As you are not a woman (I'm assuming here), there are many things that you will not see and do not appreciate. There are many reasons women may not want to be in a class that includes men. These range from feeling uncomfortable around men they don't know, wanting to avoid the often gung-ho attitudes of men compared to women in sport, being a nervous learner, having a controlling an abusive partner or expecting that any class that includes men will be filled entirely with men (due to past experience). Other barriers to entry may include having to find a childminder or having less disposable cash.
Personally, I'm surprised female participation in skiing is as high as 34% – my own anecdotal evidence would suggest more like 25%, and anything that encourages more women to participate in sport is a good thing.
@Hurtle, Quite.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Scarlet wrote:
anything that encourages more women to participate in sport is a good thing.
.
I think it’s really difficult for mums out there who run their families and neglect themselves. They put everyone else’s needs first and it definitely shouldn’t be this way.
FWIW the last Ski Club survey showed that 66% of skiers/snowboarders are men and only 34% women, so there's evidently an imbalance and if this is a policy that can help redress that, then it seems like a good idea.
If there is such an imbalance is it because women are choosing not go get involved because I can't see any barriers stopping anyone from skiing or snowboard except for the expense.
Barriers to entry are not always obvious, and just because you don't see them it doesn't mean they aren't there. As you are not a woman (I'm assuming here), there are many things that you will not see and do not appreciate. There are many reasons women may not want to be in a class that includes men. These range from feeling uncomfortable around men they don't know, wanting to avoid the often gung-ho attitudes of men compared to women in sport, being a nervous learner, having a controlling an abusive partner or expecting that any class that includes men will be filled entirely with men (due to past experience). Other barriers to entry may include having to find a childminder or having less disposable cash.
Personally, I'm surprised female participation in skiing is as high as 34% – my own anecdotal evidence would suggest more like 25%, and anything that encourages more women to participate in sport is a good thing.
@Hurtle, Quite.
Absolutely this!! Not to mention the fact that a lot of women would say they don't like the cold and would prefer a holiday in the sun. Confidence certainly plays a big part in this.
Maybe only a sexist would see these classes as sexist?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Gerry wrote:
boisdevie wrote:
I hope I'm not breaking any rules of the forum here but I'd be interested in the views of other forum users.
Chill Factore in Manchester has a women only session. I see this as sexism as one sex (men) are discriminated against purely on account of their sex. Am I wrong or am I right?
It's the usual millennial crybaby stuff unfortunately. I can understand having a kids only session but anything else is just stupid, imo.
who's the crybaby: women, boisdevie or you crying about millennials
After all it is free
After all it is free
HoneyBunny wrote:
Absolutely this!! Not to mention the fact that a lot of women would say they don't like the cold and would prefer a holiday in the sun. Confidence certainly plays a big part in this.
Good point. Also, in general, women feel the cold more due to being smaller and are disproportionally affected by circulatory problems. Just having a group of people together who understand the issues can be helpful and encouraging in itself.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Clearly no one has meant to be sexist, and therefore who ever has decided to have these sessions obviously believes that they could be a good way to get more women skiing. What's wrong with that? ** But more than that, who cares if someone has accidentally been a little bit sexist. Seriously, I just don't understand the mentality to protest or complain about it. Shouldn't rule 5 apply here, or is that sexist too?
**I think it's a daft proposition, and quite silly to suggest that women don't ski because there are men there, (I know there may be a very small number, but there will be a similar percentage of men who don't ski because there are women there) although I can see why it would be useful in some learner groups to not have men there with all that testosterone and macho bollox. Maybe they should do women and under 12 children sessions too for the same reason.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@boisdevie, in certain respects I do think you have a point. Just recently I was standing, in desperate need of relief, outside a public rest room reserved for women only. I mean how fair is that?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Steilhang wrote:
@boisdevie, I was in desperate need of relief, outside a public rest room reserved for women
Could you not sort yourself out?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@thecramps, and risk arrest?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Steilhang, Good point
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Steilhang wrote:
@boisdevie, in certain respects I do think you have a point. Just recently I was standing, in desperate need of relief, outside a public rest room reserved for women only. I mean how fair is that?
which has happened to no woman ever
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I fear the sexism comes in the assumption that women are so especially delicate that they need special treatment. In any activity people will tend to link up with others of the same gender. So a single sex class may be attractive for that reason. The problem lies in excluding a group from the slope for a period of time because of their gender.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
dw832 wrote:
I fear the sexism comes in the assumption that women are so especially delicate that they need special treatment. In any activity people will tend to link up with others of the same gender. So a single sex class may be attractive for that reason. The problem lies in excluding a group from the slope for a period of time because of their gender.
Which is what happens in Iraq. In this case it’s probably all about capturing a certain religious demographic, if you know what I mean.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
