 Poster: A snowHead
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When I used to go with a large group to chalets, the group organiser would collect tips from everyone and present it to the chalet hosts at the last dinner, making a speech about how wonderful it was. We all had to clap. God, it was embarrassing!
If we went as a couple, I would put a tip into a tips jar but no way would I put cash into someone's hand. It's all too much "Lady of the Manor and the poor serf" for me.
I now stay in hotels with professional staff. And guess what. Many of them don't even ski! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@maggi, 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
HoneyBunny-----'They also probably think the hosts are lucky, getting free food, lodging and lift pass, and getting to ski every day.'
No No & no. That statement is completely false. |
HoneyBunny isn't wrong - many people do wrongly *think* that.
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
HoneyBunny-----'They also probably think the hosts are lucky, getting free food, lodging and lift pass, and getting to ski every day.'
No No & no. That statement is completely false. Nothing staff receive are 'free'. They make up part of the remuneration package. As for skiing every day, also completely wrong. Change over days, no one gets to ski at all as a rule. Often operational needs mean staff do not always 'get to ski every day'. They are fortunate in being able to ski more often than the once or twice a year that most British skiers manage. |
I said they probably think that. That statement is true, not false! You really are not reading what people are saying.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hurtle--Merely correcting an all to common misconception.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Old Man Of Lech, yes, but can't you see you're arguing against yourself? If the remuneration package includes the ski pass and whatever else, that justifies the cash element of the wage being lower than it otherwise might be. So, in other words, the wage overall isn't necessarily that low. Duh.
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Hurtle-I'm not arguing. I have far more experience of these things from both sides of the fence. Employee & guest. What experience do you have in these matters? No one with any sense ever goe's to work a ski season expecting a living wage. What I am advocating is that when staff do their job well, which I expect them to do, it should not be beyond the pale to think that satisfied guests who are well informed might reward those staff in the same way they would good restaurant staff anywhere. The overall package is never great. TO's get the equipment, usually lessons, FOC. Food is often at very advantageous wholesale prices, (if you knew what the guest budget was you might be shocked). Even with the complete remuneration package, the rewards are THAT low. If you have not done a season you will probably never understand why anyone would. Anyhow, enough of this. The reference to I believe the Simpsons? DUH. well that displays the level this thread has sunk to.
Goodbye and enjoy your next ski trip. Me I'm enjoying a whole season in fabulous Colorado.
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My stepdaughter did a couple of years as a rep, summer and winter. Her mum and I talked her into getting a 'proper job', saving for a house etc. She did a couple of years of office work, but said after all her bills were paid, she had virtually the same disposable income as she did as a rep. So she jacked the office a year ago and spent the summer in Greece. She is now just finishing up in Lapland, the season is short there, before heading to Andorra to see out the winter. She has had a great time, learning to telemark, husky safaris, seeing Santa, snowmobiling to the Russian border. Then she is home for a few weeks before heading to Sorrento for the summer. As she says, it's a lifestyle choice, she would do it for less cash and it is great to see her really happy. Oh and no one tips the rep.
I don't think folk have misconceptions that resort staff can ski all day, nearly everyone knows that the wages are crap and the hours can be long. But it is a lifestyle choice, and the disposable income isn't necessarily that far off a UK office job.
So, tip if you want. Or not if you don't. Tip as much or as little as you see fit.
Except for an old man from lech, don't give him ten bucks or less if you want it to be accepted. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| No one with any sense ever goe's to work a ski season expecting a living wage. |
No one with an education ever "goe's to work".
p.s. - Beyond the pale is racist.
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@Old Man Of Lech, I have done a season. And I know exactly how the catered chalet model works. It isn't rocket science. Which is just as well...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@dode,
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Oh and no one tips the rep
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Tell me about it! But I didn't begrudge the chalet girls their tips as they all did a fantastic job.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
| Layne-Where did you get COMPULSORY tipping from. Absolutely no one has suggested that, only that a tip for good service is welcome. |
So you are saying it is OK not to tip?
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Beyond the pale is racist.
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Don't be ridiculous. But he has used it incorrectly.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
it should not be beyond the pale to think that satisfied guests who are well informed might reward those staff in the same way they would good restaurant staff anywhere.
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Actually, I'm struggling to find anyone on the thread who has disagreed with this proposition. Whilst some people struggle with the whole concept of tipping, most do tip where tipping is the norm and when the service has been good.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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On balance, it's a bit like having an exchange with Stanton. No good comes of it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Out of everything on this thread I think the only thing worth commenting on is whether 'beyond the pale' is racist or not.
I think, after taking modern examples into account that 'beyond the pale' is a racist statement.
The etymology suggests that The Pale (or English Pale) was a part of English controlled Ireland during the Middle ages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pale). This also became used as a word for 'boundary' and the like.
But if you were 'beyond the pale' it means that this is outside a boundary or somehow weird or not the norm.... just like all those Irish the other side of the Pale (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beyond_the_pale).
So, IMO it is an idiom constructed from racism.... but is it racist... or is it hysterical to think so (see what I did there??)
P.SYOU ARE MORE THAN WELCOME TO TIP ME... BUT I KNOW ABOUT THE YELLOW SNOW THING!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| achilles wrote: |
Looks like supporting the British TO chalet system is almost immoral. |
Everybody has a different moral compass.
Some people are happy to have a "cheaper" ski holiday, as a result of resort staff paid below the legal minimum.
And the same people bleat on Facebook about how bad a person Mike Ashley is because of zero-hours or allegedly failing to pay minimum wage.
If you do not want to tip staff, that's up to you, its your money.
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@WindOfChange, more to the point, it's up to me if I want a cheap chalet holiday with badly paid staff. I don't. Your mileage may vary.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If enough people did not want these cheap poorly paid chalets, there would be less need for staff.
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| Quote: |
| the same people who object to tipping would probably be the first to scream if prices went up. |
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| the same people bleat on Facebook about how bad a person Mike Ashley is because of zero-hours or allegedly failing to pay minimum wage. |
These stereotypical baddies get everywhere.
I wonder if chalet staff expecting lavish tips as of right are the same people that spit in guests' tea.
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Slightly more tricky is when there has been a problem not caused by the chalet staff, e.g. with the travel arrangements or resort rep. I tend to think it is a bit unfair not to tip the chalet staff in those circumstances, but can understand those people who think it is the only way of showing some unhappiness with the TO. (On the - possibly dubious - basis that the unhappiness will get fed back, at least informally, via resort manager etc)
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No that's not tricky at all.
You tip the chalet staff as thanks for their hard work.
You complain in person to the resort manager
You complete the end of holiday feedback form and/or drop head office an email explaining your disappointment and asking for some response.
How is that tricky?
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| Quote: |
If we went as a couple, I would put a tip into a tips jar but no way would I put cash into someone's hand. It's all too much "Lady of the Manor and the poor serf" for me.
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What we always did was buy a nice thank you card and slip some cash in the envelope. We just give it to them quietly at the end with some warm words. Let them open it at their leisure. Don't see why that should be embarrassing to anyone. I think its rather nice!
I'll be honest though. After I worked a season, I did try to nudge other guests into considering a tip. "What were you thinking about tips? We were thinking x per couple. Do you want to do it together or separately. We're happy to sort out a card". Some still didn't tip, some looked surprised but joined in, some did their own thing. All fair enough but at least I introduced the concept of tipping chalet staff to a few people 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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At least I've learnt something - never having written it down I always assumed it was "Beyond the pail" from a similar etymology as kick the bucket or past the outhouse.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| SlipnSlide wrote: |
| On the one hand if they’ve done a good job and been helpful and friendly a part of me thinks that they deserve a little extra, and I’m normally happy to give say a 20 euro tip if I’ve had a good holiday. |
€3 per day. My goodness you're generous.
I tend to look at what I've paid for the holiday, knock £200 off for the flights and transfers and tip 5-10% of that, so about €25-50 per guest for a tour operator jobby bought with a discount. Of course if they're no good then I don't tip. And rule no. 1 of tipping is not to tip the owner, so if it's a privately-owned chalet without staff then tipping is an absolute no-no.
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@skitrack,
+1
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You know it makes sense.
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Nothing? The employers should be paying the right level of salary for the work that their employees are doing? I get more and more frustrated with the expectation of tipping, 'we charge a optional service charge' - why? Am i supposed to go into the restaurant kitchen and get the food myself??
If you spend 2k pp on a Chalet i'd expect more than spending 1k that is in terms of both service and quality of extras, service / staff is what makes the top end distinctive so therefore it's already built into the supply / demand model. I don't necessarily think it's the best job in the world, but then again if it were dire no-one would do it? (certainly sounds like people don't do it for the money?)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| @skitrack,
+1 |
Basically a way for the English to refer to native Irish (anyone who lived outside the fence around Dublin) as primitive uncivilised barbarians. I don't really think it is racist now as people who use it don't use it in that context, but it is always good to educate people who are being rude. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Thornyhill wrote: |
| primitive uncivilised barbarians |
You mean the mountainy men
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Hurtle, I guess it all makes sense. The word 'Pale' (proper noun or adjective debate to follow) was being used in the same context as the earlier usage in regards to them there Irish. The latin 'palus' makes it a bit more interesting than this thread though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| James the Last wrote: |
| .... And rule no. 1 of tipping is not to tip the owner, so if it's a privately-owned chalet without staff then tipping is an absolute no-no. |
Not sure I understood this correctly. You are saying you would tip someone working in a chalet, but not if they happened to also own it? Even if the service was as good in both cases? I don't really understand that logic.
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@James the Last, I'm glad that you rate us owners so highly. Makes me feel all warm and cosy inside!
So much nonsense on this thread!... adjective??? Surely I meant verb?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| James the Last wrote: |
| And rule no. 1 of tipping is not to tip the owner, so if it's a privately-owned chalet without staff then tipping is an absolute no-no. |
Why?? 
When we stayed in a pension owned and run by a lovely English couple in Jenig near Nassfeld, our group gave them the rest of our unspent booze kitty at the end of the week as they'd been so great (it was about 300 Euros iirc, which worked out to about 30 each). They used to drop those of us who wanted to go out into the village centre in the evening, and loads of other little things. They worked really hard and were genuinely nice people.
I don't understand why the owners wouldn't deserve anything.
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The one thing that isn't nonsense on this thread is that the whole thing's a ruddy minefield. I've been having my hair cut by the same person for over 40 years and I STILL stress over whether or not I should be tipping him.
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Not paid for a haircut in 25yrs, since I shared a house with a hairdresser who was an old friend from primary school. She hasn't paid to have her roof checked or gutters cleared in the last 25yrs either.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ps. It isn't a question of owners not deserving anything. Owners get the asking price. You pay that when you employ their services. I never expect to be paid more than the agreed contract sum.
If my guys go above and beyond when carrying out that contract, then for sure, slip them something. But no need for a customer to tip me. Not that I am in the ski business, but the principle remains.
I get that that is different from the example by @HoneyBunny, above, in that the owners didn't (appear to) have any employees, but the thread was about staff.
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Would you tip the staff in a family owned restaurant if they owned it?
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FAQ
- but only a tenner)