 Poster: A snowHead
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@Gerry,
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10 minutes can be a long, long time for some casualties.
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Of course it can, but there really isn't much in the typical first aid kit that will make a significant difference in those moments. All you usually have in first aid kits is plasters, bandages, gauze pads and a few other odds and sods. Not much that is time critical. I grant you that in the case of a deep cut it would be nice to have a sterile pad on the wound but it would have to be pretty serious that one can't wait 10 minutes.
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90% of skiers don't need to add or remove a layer? You did a survey?
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No, i didn't do a survey of how many add/remove a layer but I have done informal surveys of how many people carry rucksacks and that equates to around 10% depending upon how British a resort you are in. On the basis that the vast majority of people won't carry that extra layer in their pockets then I'm guessing that the majority dont add/remove layers. Of course, they may store them with the mug wearing a rucksack 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
@Gerry,
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10 minutes can be a long, long time for some casualties.
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Of course it can, but there really isn't much in the typical first aid kit that will make a significant difference in those moments. All you usually have in first aid kits is plasters, bandages, gauze pads and a few other odds and sods. Not much that is time critical. I grant you that in the case of a deep cut it would be nice to have a sterile pad on the wound but it would have to be pretty serious that one can't wait 10 minutes.
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90% of skiers don't need to add or remove a layer? You did a survey?
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No, i didn't do a survey of how many add/remove a layer but I have done informal surveys of how many people carry rucksacks and that equates to around 10% depending upon how British a resort you are in. On the basis that the vast majority of people won't carry that extra layer in their pockets then I'm guessing that the majority dont add/remove layers. Of course, they may store them with the mug wearing a rucksack |
Ha, you are clearly slightly more than just clueless. I'd suggest doing something like the BASP course.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Gerry,
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Ha, you are clearly slightly more than just clueless. I'd suggest doing something like the BASP course.
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Feel free to educate me. What do you carry in your first aid kit that is so time critical? Best thing I can think of is an aspirin for heart attack patients.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| And all you have are debating fallacies. Because I don't need to carry spare boots and skis, I shouldn't carry spare gloves either? Because I don't carry a defibrillator, I don't need to know how to deal with a heat attack as a first responder? |
Not at all. You can carry anything you want with you. I don't mind that, not a all. Only thing I do mind is, if people carry with them is bottle of alcohol. It doesn't bother me if you have 20 pairs of spare gloves with you, next to defibrillator and diplomas for 10 first aid courses including equipment for on-site brain surgery (which would also come handy if there's head trauma case when colliding with snow gun on side of course). But it does bother me to have people who think sipping schnaps while skiing is cool (obviously there's quite few such here), and all of a sudden they turn into projectiles on skis without any control. Yes of course they don't because few sips of schnaps, after beer while having 10am snack and 2 glasses of wine for lunch, just warms you up.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
@Gerry,
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Ha, you are clearly slightly more than just clueless. I'd suggest doing something like the BASP course.
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Feel free to educate me. What do you carry in your first aid kit that is so time critical? Best thing I can think of is an aspirin for heart attack patients. |
A compression strap to stop any significant bleeding.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
@andyrew, Will you just read my paragraph again? I clearly said that you have to be 'unlucky' and that it CAN happen. I made it blindingly, painfully obvious that it can happen. FFS I even put it in capital letters. Where exactly was I 'very, very, very wrong'?
In addition, my point was that most British skiers do NOT spend their time on top of Ben Nevis in a snowstorm and consequently tend to over-compensate in an unfamiliar environment. |
What's 'very, very very wrong' is your logic.
You acknowledge those "unlucky" thing CAN happen. Yet you advocate NOT taking any step to prepare for them, on the basis it happen rather rarely. You further criticize ANYONE who take even the SIMPLEST and EASIEST steps of preparation as 'unnecessary faffing'. You even assigned that as a fault of the British people as a group! 
You may choose to go skiing on your underpants on a -10 degree day, perhaps because you want to appear tough. But trying to justify why it's better has the opposite effect. Everyone wonders if you even have a brain.
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| abc wrote: |
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
@Gerry,
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Ha, you are clearly slightly more than just clueless. I'd suggest doing something like the BASP course.
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Feel free to educate me. What do you carry in your first aid kit that is so time critical? Best thing I can think of is an aspirin for heart attack patients. |
A compression strap to stop any significant bleeding. |
no one has ever started the day by saying to themselves I must get my compression strap in case I see some hurt on the side of the piste
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| eddiethebus wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
@Gerry,
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Ha, you are clearly slightly more than just clueless. I'd suggest doing something like the BASP course.
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Feel free to educate me. What do you carry in your first aid kit that is so time critical? Best thing I can think of is an aspirin for heart attack patients. |
A compression strap to stop any significant bleeding. |
no one has ever started the day by saying to themselves I must get my compression strap in case I see some hurt on the side of the piste |
You don't do that at the start of the day. You do that at the start of the season. Put that in your first aid kit and CARRY it.
Further more, I don't carry stuff in case I see someone hurt. I carry thing *I* can use.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Actually, this is the helmet thread.
Chance of hitting one's head on the snow is relatively rare. So why is everyone wearing helmet? 
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You know it makes sense.
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@abc,
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| Everyone wonders if you even have a brain. |
No need to get personal.
OK, to respond to your comments:
Compression strap - OK, I can imagine a situation when one of these might come in handy. Hard to imagine it happening on a ski slope though, but lets say it's possible. The only problem is that it's not the sort of thing that generally appears in first aid kits or on the lists of recommended contents.
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You acknowledge those "unlucky" thing CAN happen. Yet you advocate NOT taking any step to prepare for them, on the basis it happen rather rarely. You further criticize ANYONE who take even the SIMPLEST and EASIEST steps of preparation as 'unnecessary faffing'. You even assigned that as a fault of the British people as a group!
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You are muddling several separate comments. The point about 'unlucky things CAN happen' [your phrase, not mine] related to the likelihood of suffering extreme weather in the UK. The point about 'faffing' related to the need to move a backpack from back to front and front to back on chairlifts. What I assigned to the British was the fact that we seem to be far more likely to wear backpacks than most Europeans. I then wondered if that was because most holiday skiers in the Alps are unused to extreme weather and are inclined to over-react.
I'm more than happy for anyone to take simple and easy steps to prepare. My point was that some of the steps mentioned seemed out of proportion to the risk. I carry aspirin in case someone nearby has a heart attack. Tiny risk, but tiny inconvenience and huge benefit. Carrying spare gloves seems, to me, unneccessary and out of proportion to the risk. By all means carry a pork pie, a truckle of cheddar and a bottle of stout or whatever if it makes your life more pleasurable but I was just querying about what is necessary.
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Chance of hitting one's head on the snow is relatively rare. So why is everyone wearing helmet?
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Actually, I'd argue it isn't that rare. I did it comprehensively two years ago. Anyway, people wear helmets because they perceive the potential benefit outweighs the hassle. Do you need a helmet? Probably not, but surely it's reasonable for anyone to query the risk reward equation? Head injury: Low likelihood of incident, potentially catastrophic injury, minute hassle to wear a helmet and some benefits (warmth etc.) Spare gloves? Low likelihood of incident, very low impact if it does happen, minimal hassle, no additional benefits to spare gloves. For me the low impact of the risk means you don't need them.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
@andyrew, Will you just read my paragraph again? I clearly said that you have to be 'unlucky' and that it CAN happen. I made it blindingly, painfully obvious that it can happen. FFS I even put it in capital letters. Where exactly was I 'very, very, very wrong'?
In addition, my point was that most British skiers do NOT spend their time on top of Ben Nevis in a snowstorm and consequently tend to over-compensate in an unfamiliar environment. |
I didn't mean to be "personal". It just applies for ANYONE runs around with only their underpants at -10C... one tends to wonder if that person is indeed very healthy or very stupid.
You answers over several related topics, runs on a similar vein. You acknowledges the line between too much faffing and appropriate preparedness is a personal one (helmet vs helmetless, backpack vs bare back, hydration pack vs tea break etc.). Yet, you insist YOUR personal choice of that line is the BEST choice you use to JUDGE OTHERS. Anyone who act differently are consider as having some fault. That's not too different than someone running around in their underpants in -10C AND judging others who wear coats as inadequate.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@abc, No, you completely missed my point. As I repeatedly made clear it is a matter of personal choice and people are more than welcome to carry whatever they wish. As I have said several times I am just questioning what one needs to carry. I'm not saying anyone is at fault or judging them, I'm simply questioning whether, for example, carrying spare gloves is a rational response to a tiny risk with a low risk outcome. If someone says "I carry spare gloves because I like to wear pink in the morning and blue in the afternoon" then that's great. If someone says I carry a spare pair of underpants because they might catch fire then I'd question whether th need them. Surely that's fair enough?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I carry a rucksack at different times for different reasons and it really is neither a hassle nor unbalancing.
Whether it is sartorially elegant or not doesn't matter to me but if sartorial elegance is important I don't think my backpack is where most people would start.
I possibly should carry first aid stuff but I don't other than the odd paracetamol but I do find the ability to add to or divest myself of clothing means that I remain far more comfortable heat wise than in the days before I used one regularly.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| primoz wrote: |
Not at all. You can carry anything you want with you. I don't mind that, not a all. Only thing I do mind is, if people carry with them is bottle of alcohol. It doesn't bother me if you have 20 pairs of spare gloves with you, next to defibrillator and diplomas for 10 first aid courses including equipment for on-site brain surgery (which would also come handy if there's head trauma case when colliding with snow gun on side of course). But it does bother me to have people who think sipping schnaps while skiing is cool (obviously there's quite few such here), and all of a sudden they turn into projectiles on skis without any control. Yes of course they don't because few sips of schnaps, after beer while having 10am snack and 2 glasses of wine for lunch, just warms you up. |
Do you think all mountain restaurants in ski resorts should sell only soft drinks?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| I'm simply questioning whether, for example, carrying spare gloves is a rational response to a tiny risk with a low risk outcome. If someone says "I carry spare gloves because I like to wear pink in the morning and blue in the afternoon" then that's great. |
You got your answers. But you pester people about their answer. You even offer your own entirely unscientific opinion on hydration and use that as a benchmark to label others who wish to drink more as nothing but a victim of the marketing from sport's drink company!
You really should move to the helmet thread. There, you will be pestered about why you wear a helmet when the risk is so tiny. It's nothing but the marketing ploy of helmet manufacturers. And you fell hook, line and sinker for it all!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| swiftoid wrote: |
| Do you think all mountain restaurants in ski resorts should sell only soft drinks? |
Is there not a slight difference between having a beer/glass of wine at lunch and carrying a hip flask to top yourself up through the day? Purely playing devil's advocate, I've always liked the idea of carrying a flask of something nice, but even having a pint of beer has a clear effect on how I ski so I limit myself to one small beer with my lunch.
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@abc,
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You even offer your own entirely unscientific opinion on hydration and use that as a benchmark to label others who wish to drink more as nothing but a victim of the marketing from sport's drink company!
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Actually I think it was me who brought up the sports drinks and although my scientific knowledge might not be great it is based on reading a few of the scientific review articles on sports drinks and hydration.
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@SnoodyMcFlude, I was responding to 'Only thing I do mind is, if people carry with them is bottle of alcohol.'
If it's a nice day I enjoy taking a picnic and finding a nice spot to sit and have my lunch. If I'm doing that I'll be carrying a 'bottle of alcohol' (beer or some wine) to go with it. No different to having a drink with lunch in a restaurant so why would anybody mind me carrying that unless they also think it's wrong to have a beer or glass of wine with their lunch in a mountain restaurant?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| swiftoid wrote: |
@SnoodyMcFlude, I was responding to 'Only thing I do mind is, if people carry with them is bottle of alcohol.'
If it's a nice day I enjoy taking a picnic and finding a nice spot to sit and have my lunch. If I'm doing that I'll be carrying a 'bottle of alcohol' (beer or some wine) to go with it. No different to having a drink with lunch in a restaurant so why would anybody mind me carrying that unless they also think it's wrong to have a beer or glass of wine with their lunch in a mountain restaurant? |
The post you quoted was referring to people carrying a hip flask though, which is quite different to having a drink with your lunch (e.g glass of wine or beer). Primoz wasn't complaining about the odd drink (not as I read it) but those that feel the need to take spirits out on the slopes.
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Surely the issue of hip flasks on the slopes is something of a red herring. What you drink and what vessel you drink it from are irrelevant. I would have thought that the thing to object to is someone who has drunk too much. Judge it by BAC, not where the drink occurs.
@SnoodyMcFlude, Why would it matter if someone takes a nip of sloe gin from a flask out on the slopes? It's not a question of anyone 'feeling the need to take spirits on the slope', nor about them turning into 'projectiles on skis'. It's alcohol that has that effect, not hip flasks or the fact that they are used outside. Why equate hip flasks with heavy drinking? Of all the people I know who carry hip flasks when skiing I can't think of a single one who is either a heavy drinker or I have ever seen remotely pissed on the slopes.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| swiftoid wrote: |
| Do you think all mountain restaurants in ski resorts should sell only soft drinks? |
Considering most of people think it's perfectly fine to drink beer or 3 and then keep on skiing, then yes. On the other side, why everyone, ok most of us, agree it's problem to drink 5 beers and drive?
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Why equate hip flasks with heavy drinking? Of all the people I know who carry hip flasks when skiing I can't think of a single one who is either a heavy drinker or I have ever seen remotely pissed on the slopes. |
If you can't survive 5 hours without sip of alcohol, then it's pretty simple, you have drinking problem. You can find 100s of made up reason against this, but fact is, you have drinking issue if you can't survive day on slope without alcohol. I totally agree people react to alcohol different way, but I guess there's enough of proofs alcohol doesn't make you warm, it doesn't improve your reaction times or your coordination, and with ski abilities of someone, who goes skiing for 10 days a year (most likely less), I would say alcohol is really last thing they need.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Surely the issue of hip flasks on the slopes is something of a red herring. What you drink and what vessel you drink it from are irrelevant. I would have thought that the thing to object to is someone who has drunk too much. Judge it by BAC, not where the drink occurs. |
Granted. However I don't think it's a big leap to assume that, for the most part, someone carrying a hip flask is likely to have higher BAC than someone who does not. THe real isssue is, of course, people being drunk rather than those with hip flasks. I don't quite agree with Primoz that anyone carrying one has an alcohol problem, but I do think that they're a bit needless (although as I said before, I do find the idea of it quite alluring).
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Primoz wasn't complaining about the odd drink (not as I read it)
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Yes he was. Prohibition on the slopes.
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You know it makes sense.
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@swiftoid, yep, I see that now, like I said though it was only how I read the post.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@SnoodyMcFlude, Actually, I think it is quite a leap to make assumptions about the BAC level of someone with a hip flask. Primoz seems to think that people have hip flasks because they need to or want to maintain their alcohol level. Maybe it's because its traditional, people like the taste, it's a social thing to pass around a hip flask etc.? Again, nobody is suggesting that sloe gin actually makes you warmer or keeps out the cold, but it does provide an illusion of warmth that many enjoy. Nor does it improve ones skiing (well, actually it can with quite a few people but that's irrelevant) but maybe many skiers are not overly concerned with trying to ski perfectly. Some ski trips I'll carry a hip flask and some I won't. When I do I usually find that it's still half full by the end of the week despite having shared it with friends. People sip at a flask, nit glug from it. If one is concerned about inebriated skiers then see what people's BAC is even before they start skiing, after a heavy night out. I think we should look at the bigger picture and pause before jumping to conclusions about hip flasks.
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Poster: A snowHead
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its an age thing. no one under the age of about 45-50 even owns a hip flask, let alone would take one out skiing for the day 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@foxtrotzulu, I agree that there's a large assumption, but I don't think it's a massive leap to think that someone carrying alcohol will have had some, and those that do not are less likely to. As you say, a small nip here and there isn't an issue.
@eddiethebus, I'm 30 and have one,have done for several years Wouldn't take it to the slopes though, it's more use at a festival or big night out.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@eddiethebus,
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It's an age thing. no one under the age of about 45-50 even owns a hip flask, let alone would take one out skiing for the day
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You might be right there. It may also be a rural vs. urban thing too.
@SnoodyMcFlude,
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| @foxtrotzulu, I agree that there's a large assumption, but I don't think it's a massive leap to think that someone carrying alcohol will have had some, and those that do not are less likely to. As you say, a small nip here and there isn't an issue. |
I think it's safe to assume that someone carrying alcohol will have had some, but I don't think you can really assume they are any more likely to have had more than anyone else once you exclude the teetotallers.
@SnoodyMcFlude,
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| @eddiethebus, I'm 30 and have one,have done for several years Wouldn't take it to the slopes though, it's more use at a festival or big night out. |
That's interesting, because I'm almost a bit shocked at that. If you are going out for a 'big night out' why would you want a hip flask? It wouldn't occur to me in a million years. Again, maybe it's the age thing. Maybe under-50's see hip flasks as more of a serious drinking tool (like the old drunk in American films who tucks into his flask) while I'm pretty sure nobody that I know looks at them that way - especially when you consider what they are usually filled with - e.g. things like sloe gin, cherry brandy, whisky mac etc. - which aren't really what serious drinkers would have. Actually, most of those sort of drinks are closer in alcohol to fortified wines than to spirits.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think it's time I revived the thread on what to put in one's hipflask
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skiing with rucksack, no problem! I carry less weight now...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Bigtipper, Dis you really choose to race with a rucksack, or was there nowhere convenient to leave it?
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@foxtrotzulu, it was not a serious race. I think it was called the Andy capp slalom, due to the high frequency of inexperienced skiers going too fast and not having the control required. My plan of action was to make it to the end still on my skis. (note no helmet either, which I probably would not do now either)
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FAQ
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