 Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
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lift pass prices are clearly advertised
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my experience too. You can get cheap deals on season passes but anyone can - you don't have to be local, or a property-owner. |
Not always around here - I can't think of anywhere in Tirol that actually advertises a discount for people registered as living in Tirol (and Tirol only - you have to show your Meldetzettel) on day tickets, yet pretty much everywhere does. I think because it's against EU rules 
The one exception is Obergurgl, which has a special discount on Saturdays (€21 day pass, again you have live in Tirol), but I'm 90% sure they offer a smaller (unadvertised) discount on other days too.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Guys, my point is that using a tour operator does not mean money is not spent in the local,economy. If you want higher holiday prices, great. Less tourists and less money for the local economy and less opportunities for seasons.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sorry seasoaires
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Working for british tour operators may be long hours and underpaid compared to a "local" job in retail like Clarky999 had stated however having worked for both i see pro's and con's of both.
Very few local jobs will offer seasonaires people the chance to ski 6 days a week (unlikely to ski on changeover day) for at least 4 or 5 hours each day unless you are working nights of course.
Most seasonaires don't do a season for the money or often even the job, they do it for the experience, to meet people, to have fun and yes SKI / SNOWBOARD as much as possible.
I know you shouldn't rely on tips either however anyone with a good attitude should make more or less double their wages in tips within a normal chalet - I've got friends who have earned a hell of alot more in high end properties.
Tour op example -
A member of staff earns £350 a month for example, there is no cost for accommodation, no cost for ski pass, no cost for food (if working in chalets and sometimes for reps to however reps are paid more usually if they are not provided with food) and you should be able to have at least £200 a month on tips too so for an example lets say £550 pocket money which in seasonaire terms works out at 110 beers a month at 5 euros.
Local job example -
Now lets say you are working a local job - the wages will be alot more and often you are also provided accommodation in hospitality but not always. The chance of being able to ski most days is also slim. However lets say you get paid net £1300 - you will then have to pay around £500 - 600 on rent which leaves you with around £800 then lets say £200 on food a month (i usually spend more) that takes it to around £600 which isnt much more in real terms at the end of the day which is the way you have to see it.
Conclusion
If working for tour ops was so bad seasonaires would not return season after season, for many it is seen as a path to working in a foreign country which otherwise they might not have embarked on for many reasons ranging from not wanting to leave the UK without a job guaranteed, money to pay deposits, or even the confidence or leaving home for the first time to go live in a foreign country. I think working a season for many is just a gap year however if they are thinking of doing it for more than 2 or 3 seasons should definitely look into the living like a local route.
Many young brits sadly wont have the easy route to work a ski season they have once had to work in Austria - it has already happened in Switzerland and will be sad if this goes through.
Many have said the locals lose out - however they often profit more renting their accom to UK tour operators and dont have the headache of running them / paying the staff so it is often a win win situation. Many Austrian chalet owners will lose out (in the short term at least) if all of the uk chalet companies decide to stop running the chalets for them as there will be higher costs involved.
I think many people here would be surprised how little many of the large uk tour ops make from each holiday.
Sorry for the long rant 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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EK does do special season pass deals for local property owners. One of the perks of owning an apartment. So I'm told anyway by somebody who does.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Re Sk Pass.
In Austria. If your registered, working & paying taxes you get 50% refund of the pass
back at the end of the season.
Note. You have to complete (work,social,taxes) thexwhole season.
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@stanton, WTF?
Do you mean if you are working somewhere that requires the purchase of a ski pass?
Or do you mean that you personally have arranged with your bookeeper to allow 50% of your season pass as an 'expense'.
Because I should notify all of my mates and shout this from the highest hills so everyone living in Austria with a job can hear!
'social' taxes.... with which organisation?
That whole post whiffs to me.
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@skiorboard, well said and great post! I suspect you have it about right.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
they do it for the experience, to meet people, to have fun and yes SKI
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My lot last season did it to get drunk (in so many words - "we're here to get drunk" one of them said, to general agreement). Their idea of skiing was to bomb down the usual five runs and then spend the rest of the afternoon in a bar. They were pretty typical of the resort's UK seasonnaire population. Bit pathetic really. 
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| Lizzard wrote: |
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they do it for the experience, to meet people, to have fun and yes SKI
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My lot last season did it to get drunk (in so many words - "we're here to get drunk" one of them said, to general agreement). Their idea of skiing was to bomb down the usual five runs and then spend the rest of the afternoon in a bar. They were pretty typical of the resort's UK seasonnaire population. Bit pathetic really. |
My youngest girl has done 3 seasons (about to go away for fourth) and the oldest did one season. We've always gone out and met them and their friends and I have to say I don't think it's that representative of seasonnaires behaviour; at least not in my experience
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@flangesax,
I should add this is how it works in The Tirol for employees working in the HORECA (Hotel,Restaurant,Catering) which is generally everyone!!!
It maybe different in other States like Salzburgeland,Steimark,Voralburg etc.
If your being paid by an Austrian employer in Euros
You pay for the pass or some employers advance you the cash out
of your salary.
Your payslips willl show your deductions (tax,social,pension)..
When you de register you recieve 50% of the skipass back.
Dont forget also if your employed through the Austrian system
you wil recieve sick pay in the event & make pension contributions.
Obvioulsy if your work is on the mountain (Ski Teachers, Lifts, Lift Company restaurants) a pass is provided but employees in
normal footwear generally do use the skier access control.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Won't most of the workers in that industry be covered by the GKK?
'de register' - from what?
You will be entitled to your full holiday pay at the end of the contract but I'm not so sure about this 50% thing.
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The resorts that give discount for local property owners don't AFAIK distinguish between genuine locals and second home owners.
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You know it makes sense.
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| flangesax wrote: |
'de register' - from what?
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I'd guess from living there? Anmelden/abmelden
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@flangesax,
When you move to nearly all European countrys you must
Register (living address,employer)with the regional offices.
If it your first time they will issue you with social(tax)l security number.
For resorts like St Anton ,Ischgl this involved going to Landeck.
I believe it can now be done online by your employer.
When you leave or change address you must notify or de register.
Otherwise they will continue to assume your still in Austria & will
send you local taxes (bills).
Apart from the legalitys it is important for the authorities to know
who is in town in emergency situations (Avalanche lockdowns)
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Poster: A snowHead
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@stanton, yeah... lived here over 9 years mate... kinda know that.
The 'social tax security number' is not statutory and is issued by your insurer.
Your tax number is issued by a completely different organization - the finanzamt (sp).
So when you stop living in the region they give you a 50% rebate for a ski pass that is nothing to do with your employment?
This just does not sound at all accurate.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@skiorboard, I've also done these sums a few times and your equivalent pay argument works to a point if the tour operator accomodates its staff in a decent apartment with cooker etc and maybe 2 to a room, (ie a 7k/8k apartment between 2) however most of them dont do this as well we know and then the sums dont add up.
For me it does nt't matter how many are queing up to do this work at the current low wages, it does n't matter all the fringe benefits associated with this work, the fact is it's still work and employers are no longer allowed to pay what they think the work deserves as they did maybe a hundred years ago. I am sure most employers would like to abolish the minimum wage etc and ship in cheaper labour but for lots of reasons it's just not allowed anymore.
However it's pretty obvious that what they will probably do is meet the wage requirements, make some fancy new contracts, form a separate services company and then bill each employee for accomodation, pass, skis, flights etc and should someone choose to opt out of this system then they wont have a job.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| flangesax wrote: |
So when you stop living in the region they give you a 50% rebate for a ski pass that is nothing to do with your employment?
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It is for seasonal workers. Seasonal (economic migrants) workers get a 3-4-5 month contract.
It works like an incentive for them to work hard & stay the whole season with the same employer. If they are fired or cannot find another job
then they will not receive the refund.
When you complete the season work contract 50% of the lift pass will be credited to your salary.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| flangesax wrote: |
@stanton, yeah... lived here over 9 years mate... kinda know that.
The 'social tax security number' is not statutory and is issued by your insurer.
Your tax number is issued by a completely different organization - the finanzamt (sp).
So when you stop living in the region they give you a 50% rebate for a ski pass that is nothing to do with your employment?
This just does not sound at all accurate. |
In St Anton you got a 50% refund on your lift pass at the end of the season if you had worked over 30hrs a week for at least 90days of the season (think it was that, don't have my paperwork to hand). End of the season, within a certain number of days of the lifts closing you had to go to the lift office with proof of your work, lift pass and ID and you got the cash back. Doesn't have to be in one job (eg I had two part time jobs that combined totalled more than 30hrs). Those living in St Anton got a cheap pass (Einheimlich) that just covered the St Anton side of the Arlberg (Arlberg Ost), but you had to meet certain criteria.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| hsdee wrote: |
@skiorboard, I've also done these sums a few times and your equivalent pay argument works to a point if the tour operator accommodates its staff in a decent apartment with cooker etc and maybe 2 to a room, (ie a 7k/8k apartment between 2) however most of them dont do this as well we know and then the sums dont add up.
For me it does nt't matter how many are queuing up to do this work at the current low wages, it does n't matter all the fringe benefits associated with this work, the fact is it's still work and employers are no longer allowed to pay what they think the work deserves as they did maybe a hundred years ago. I am sure most employers would like to abolish the minimum wage etc and ship in cheaper labour but for lots of reasons it's just not allowed anymore.
However it's pretty obvious that what they will probably do is meet the wage requirements, make some fancy new contracts, form a separate services company and then bill each employee for accommodation, pass, skis, flights etc and should someone choose to opt out of this system then they wont have a job. |
I suppose it depends what job you do and for which company, I've often had my own room in the past and even my own apartment - worse i ever had was to share with 1 other but like you say i have also seen 5 in a room. However i now work for an Austrian company.
I agree it would be nice to have more money doing that kind of work. The thing is that young people who do this work will no longer have the opportunity on such a large scale - A local working an equivalent job in hospitality would be lucky if they got to ski 1/2 as much unless they work nights. Often seasonaires (not all) don't think that it's a job as such, they think of it more as a holiday with some work included basically a means to go skiing.
Id disagree with the last statement, I think many of the larger ski companies will cut back their offerings mainly chalets / chalet hotels, maybe keeping some in the well known resorts where they will be able to charge an extra £100 - £200 per person per holiday allowing them to still make a profit and then offer rep only hotels ran by local companies in many of the others as it will be much more cost effective rather than having so many chalet staff on Austrian contracts.
Switzerland has pretty much seen the death of the british chalets ran by the large tour operators, Could this be the end for Austria too?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@stanton, @Sitter, .... aha - got it now!
Great idea!
Thanks for taking the time to explain it clearly.
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Switzerland has pretty much seen the death of the british chalets ran by the large tour operators
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Weren't they always fairly restricted? When I was in the market for catered chalet holidays I struggled to find suitable ones outside France - not for want of looking. Maybe the Swiss ones were too expensive - I was always on a tight budget. I did find what sounded like a good one in Austria but we were disappointed in the end as it wasn't operated as a chalet and we got very poor food and service in the adjoining hotel. There were chalets in St Anton but that never appealed. I also struggled to find self-catering options outside France - did find a lovely apartment in Austria, the first time we ever went, and would happily have gone back but it was dropped from the brochure the following year.
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@pam_w - They were still around. Not as many as in France/Austria and yes a tad more expensive but that is to be expected with CHF being so valuable. I did see one for £199pp a few years ago to Saas Fee - typical chalet half board on sale a week before departure however that is very rare unfortunately and will never happen in the foreseeable future
As for finding the self catering options in countries outside france, you just need to know the right places to look. I have found many small self catered apartments are available however many do not have up to date websites or they are difficult to find without knowing the names. Always worth emailing local tourist offices.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| The resorts that give discount for local property owners don't AFAIK distinguish between genuine locals and second home owners. |
I'm not sure there's any such thing as genuine locals in some resorts. Certainly in Val Thorens, out of season the only people who are there are builders, people renovating their own properties, and two restuarnts that open for the builders. It's quite spooky walking through there at night at the end of May.
I know we get a season ticket discount if we turn up with proof of residence.
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@skiorboard, They dont have to put their staff on Austrian contracts though, that indeed would be expensive factoring in Austrian Sozial. But I think the increase in holiday cost to each guest wont actually be that high at all, maybe £20 pounds a person once the contracts and benefits have been rearranged as per previous sums. So I think there will not be a dramatic drop of chalets in Austria whereas the wage increases rumoured in Switzerland were potentially very large.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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All this does not really matter if there is No Snow 
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FAQ
