 Poster: A snowHead
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Here is some background information I prepared to assist BASI and their Members during negotiations with the EU Commission for anyone interested in the political and legal elements of working rights in Europe.
Your Right to work in Europe
BASI along with the UK government are currently negotiating with other EU nations to determine the working rights for snowsport instructors within Europe. It is complex in that some nations have a single level of instructor with the rest being trainees, in some countries skiing is a ‘regulated” profession and aptitude tests can be applied and some nations don’t recognise other disciplines such as snowboarding etc. There is a pilot programme between a group of EU countries called the MoU to determine the common tests and mechanisms to be applied to allow an instructor to set up in a foreign country on a permanent basis. This is referred to as “Right of Establishment” in the key EU legislation which is Directive EC2013/55 (which is the amendment to 2005/36). The Directive has two broad aims:
1. To enable mutual recognition of qualifications, supported by a EU Professional Card, of professionals who wish to seek ‘Right of Establishment’ in other EU countries.
2. To enable partial access to working rights in other EU countries for appropriately qualified professionals who wish to practice on a “Temporary and Occasional” basis.
The legislation describes, in general terms, how these two broad aims should operate. Discussions on the MoU should find a way of delivering both those aims in the context of snowsports instruction. Unfortunately, the whole focus of the MoU debate so far has been on the first aim, with very little attention given to the second aim. To ensure that the interests of the entire BASI membership (not just the 10% who are ISTD qualified) are addressed a framework should be developed to extend the MoU to encompass both Right of Establishment AND Temporary Practice aspects of the EU legislation while considering the differences in national training systems and regulation.
Aim 1 - Right of Establishment
For full right of establishment the current system is reasonably well understood. BASI’s ISTD qualification, including EMS and the Eurotest, is recognised and broadly comparable to the top level qualification of the main Alpine instructor associations. Only 11 or so countries have agreed to the MoU as it stands and there are several EU national associations which would like to make changes (or even remove) the Eurotest from the list of requirements for the MoU before signing it into law. Amendments could include:
1. increasing the FIS points exemption level
2. introducing an age-handicap alongside the gender-handicap to ensure compliance with anti-discrimination legislation
3. ensuring access to the Eurotest is open to all candidates not just those from countries that have signed the MoU
4. ensuring every Eurotest is open to candidates from all member nations, not just “home Eurotest events”
5. any EU nation to be allowed to participate in opener calibration
6. increasing the pass % from 18% to a higher figure to make the test more achievable
Each EU national association will have varied opinion on any amendments and some will fight to keep the status quo but to reach agreement on the MoU there will most likely need to be compromise on some of these points before the MoU can become law through a “delegated act” as a majority of EU nations through government officials will need to approve the agreement. This however is tinkering at the edges of a well understood system and agreement on these points by itself is not sufficient to make all of the EU legislation work in practice. For that to happen we also need to see agreement on how best to move forward on the second aim: temporary practice. Using the European Qualifications Framework (EQF) as a means of comparing qualifications across different national systems is probably the best way to determine equivalency. BASI is leading the way in terms of getting its qualifications independently verified through the work being undertaken at Edinburgh University and the EQF framework is already being used for other professions to determine legally binding equivalency.
Aim 2 - Temporary Practice
Although this aspect has so far not been a major focus of debate within the MoU group, there are several currently working examples which can be used as the basis for agreement on this issue. The majority of EU instructors are not qualified to ISTD and the needs of this group must be addressed.
Precedents already exist in Europe for Temporary Working rights and these could be amalgamated into a pan European set of rules. The following regions allow temporary working each with a slightly different set of rules (please check for yourself before attempting to work in a foreign nation):
Italy, Trentino region
Offers online procedure for declaring temporary working. “Temporary” is considered no more than half the winter season, with an assumed season of 100 days, so in principle no more than 50 days can be worked as a temporary instructor. Instructors who do not hold their country’s highest level qualification will be considered on a case by case basis. Typically instructors with a level 2 qualification can work for 2 weeks if bringing their own clients, or for 7 weeks if working for a recognised ski school in the region. Level 3 instructors can work for up to 7 weeks if bringing their own clients to the region.
Italy, Veneto region
Similar process to the Trentino region, with temporary working with own clients for no more than 30 days in any one season.
Austria, Tirol region
Welcomes visiting ski schools brining their own clients. Online application from level 2, level 3 or level 4 instructors. No more than 28 days per calendar year, and no more than 14 days for any one visit.
Austria, Vorarlberg region will let you do 30 days as an L3 with no other constraints.
Austria, Salzburgerland Seems to have no limit on days but you have to be working for a UK ski school/company and under the responsibility of an ISTD. It is unclear if L2 as well as L3 can work.
Switzerland, Valias region
Declaration of temporary services by instructors from EU nations is up to 90 days per calendar year. Over 90 days per season is considered established and needs top level qualification equivalent to Swiss Patente. Instructors bringing their own clients (on-piste only) for up to 10 days per season do not require a declaration. For off-piste skiing and for working 10 - 90 days a declaration is required and can be made online.
France
The DDJS website provides an option for online declaration of temporary provision of services by ski instructors established in their home country as a qualified instructor. It is unclear how these declarations are processed.
It is interesting to note that in agreement dated March 2000 the national associations from the FEMPS countries agreed to enable temporary practice for visiting ski instructors of up to 4 weeks per season if bringing their own clients. This seems likely to have been made to accommodate the procurer legislation to 2005/36, but seems to have been largely overlooked until the last few years when some countries/regions began to put in place recognised systems for enabling temporary practice. In each example the relevant authorities require the declaring instructor (or ski school in the case of Austria) provide evidence of nationality, and professional qualifications. In some countries/regions evidence of appropriate liability insurance is required and confirmation that the instructor is not barred from practising as a result if legal conviction (e.g. criminal records check).
Skiing as a Regulated Profession
Across the EU nations there is a difference on a country by country basis whether the profession of snowsports instruction is regulated by government or not. Currently a minority of countries regulate snowsports professionals, and this has implications for how EU legislation is applied. It would be a major step backwards if the UK and the majority of EU nations were to move towards regulated profession status. For the UK itself, it may well have implications for what level of instructor could work in Scottish resorts and artificial/indoor slopes as well as the employment opportunities in other EU nations (typically regulated professions are based on ISTD equivalent qualifications). From a practical point of view the process of regulation would add a whole level of bureaucracy to snowsports qualifications in the UK and would effectively mean a loss of control by BASI of policies for qualifications as this would become the business of government. It is doubtful that the current UK Government (which is definitely anti-regulation in business) or any future government would willingly sign up to regulating snowsports professions. For these reasons BASI should resist and move towards the majority of countries imposing regulated profession status on snowsports instruction at all costs.
Proposal for Working Rights under EC2013/55
While there are some differences between different countries and regions as to how provision is made for temporary practice, there already exists precedent and enough commonality to form the basis of agreement on the MoU. Key Points of agreement could be:
A. Employment opportunities on a temporary basis is dependent on level of snowsports qualification using EQF levels, with each signatory to the MoU agreeing to 4 weeks (30 days) per season for qualifications broadly equivalent to BASI Level 2 instructors and 7 weeks (50 days) per season for qualifications broadly BASI Level 3 instructors. This reflects that several countries have a multi-tier qualification system and would be in keeping with the opportunities currently offered in some countries/regions. Instructors must work either for a recognised snowsports school in the host nation, or bring clients from their home nation and be restricted to working only with those clients. This would also give value to the Level 4 award and grant time for training while going through the system.
B. As per A but instead of limiting the time period a lower level instructor or trainee can work a limit the number of trainees/lower levels a school can employ. Similar to the Swiss system where a school must have so many full certs per lower levels. This would also address the Training Centre problem where unfairly in France only local schools with French qualified ISTD's can take on lower paid trainees. Having a fixed number would allow a school to flexibly hire for the busy weeks or take on people for the whole season as they see fit.
C. Each instructor association is required to include the names of top level qualified instructors and those lower level qualifications eligible to work in other EU nations on the IMI Database so there is an easy way of each nation checking that declarations of temporary service from lower level instructors are appropriately qualified, in addition to checking the validity of top level instructors applying for full equivalence/right of establishment.
D. Continue the requirements for full Right of Establishment, tweaking arrangements as necessary to achieve agreement across the EU nations, including those countries which have not yet signed the MoU
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Self teaching seems to be a bit undervalued. Presumeably there are plenty on this forum who are essentially self taught ?
These days there is plenty of good reading material for self analysis and video analysis is cheap and quite easy. Simply following good skiers can be an effective way to improve quickly without having to pay for formal lessons once you've mastered the basics.
It does help however to be able to get regular access, particularly in more challenging conditions. .....Think Scotland 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| speed098 wrote: |
| Plus as SB has been working out there for atleast 20 years or more I expect he would pass the language test anyway. |
I'm fairly certain I read that the judge said something like "After all this time in france, you still haven't got the grasp of basic french" to him.
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To which he replied 'three O'Clock your Honour'.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret, interesting post, thanks. Is there really a lot of demand for this temporary work you mention, other than say coach groups who bring an instructor with them? I would assume that being obliged to rent accommodation for the entire season (or face paying exorbitant tourist weekly rates) it's not in an instructor's interest to limit himself to only do three or four weeks of teaching.
| Little Martin wrote: |
| speed098 wrote: |
| Plus as SB has been working out there for atleast 20 years or more I expect he would pass the language test anyway. |
I'm fairly certain I read that the judge said something like "After all this time in france, you still haven't got the grasp of basic french" to him. |
That's true, because he used a translator. Although as I said on a previous thread, if going up in court I'd want a translator too 'just in case'. Legalese isn't easy in any language.
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The french don't require that you are a top athelete to be a ski instructor. Just a good club skier standard.
Was not aware that SB had ever been as far as EU court before. Know he had lobbied them. Know he has won some cases but the latest cases were under different charges and he lost. The French instructors not having done the ET is a fallacious argument as they passed the previous test which I don't believe SB has.
I've tried self-teaching - one brocken leg and 2 busted knees - would not personally recommend . Now taking me ages to get rid of those ingrained errors. No doubt others pick up just by watching though but books and vids have been a waste of time and money for me.
Good to see SKiM is back on track. Appeciate the frustrations but negotiations and reasoned arguments will win the day eventually and xenophobia will just prove counterproductive. I don't see the logic there should be lower standards for tempoary workers though. Generally agree though that some sensible compromises should be made.
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| emwmarine wrote: |
Indeed. You only have to look at how the brits do in competitive skiing to see why I wouldn't dream of having ski lessons from one. |
Yeah it's Alphand, Matt or if I'm desperate, Miller only for me.
Both of you seem to have gone off on a sidetrack about BASI 1 and 2s being wee wee poor in terms of personal skiing. Hardly what this thread was originally about.
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No one suggesting that level 1 and level 2 are bad skiers per se but not surprisingly skiing with native skiers who think they were really not good enough when they are within 10% of the best skiers in the world is a very humbling experience compared with skiing with level1/2 skiers. I just look at them (from a distance) and can see why someone brought up near the mountains might well have a different perspective on what constitues a ski instructor to someone brought up in say Surrey.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So what everybody is saying is that we need a questionnaire done, where's that Student guy who doesn't have girlfriend, I am sure he could throw one together.
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| TTT wrote: |
| Generally agree though that some sensible compromises should be made. |
I agree, I think that's the bit that needs to happen, on a systematic basis. The Simon Butler situation should not be taken as an example of a sensible compromise, IMO. Bits of Austria and bits of Italy seem to have reached a sensible compromise (perhaps it's no surprise that those areas get a lot of visiting ski clubs from other parts of Europe?), but it would be nice to see this happen more widely. Then everyone can get on growing the ski instruction business.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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+1 - thought SkiM's survey on FB was very constructive and agree with the general consensus of the findings
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| TTT wrote: |
| ... and agree with the general consensus of the findings |
I think there's a lot of agreement out there, especially if we are able to put the SB situation to one side. It doesn't need much change from the current system to provide slightly wider options for the provision of professional services, so the public has a wider choice, but is still respectful of the rights of instructors who have right of establishment across all EU countries.
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| TTT wrote: |
| No one suggesting that level 1 and level 2 are bad skiers per se but not surprisingly skiing with native skiers who think they were really not good enough when they are within 10% of the best skiers in the world is a very humbling experience compared with skiing with level1/2 skiers. I just look at them (from a distance) and can see why someone brought up near the mountains might well have a different perspective on what constitues a ski instructor to someone brought up in say Surrey. |
So you're saying ski instruction needs to be about who is really fast and looks good. No mention of analytical ability, patience/relating to the less athletic, and communication skills. I think you've just provided the counterpoint for wht Btit students might not be looking for what the Esf thinks they want.
No one is pretending a year or so of intensive fridge jockeying is a substitute for a lifetime spent on skis but IMV there is also merit to instructors who've worked hard on their personal skiing and learnt themselves in the modern era.
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You know it makes sense.
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No I think you will find that you said that not me. By that logic presumably one must be a completely useless skier to be a good instructor. In my experience the 2 generally but necessarily go together.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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TTT,
For teaching beginners or even low to mid level intermediates a person does not need to be able to ski within a set % of a zero point FIS skier. At this level communication skills, clean demonstrations, friendly relaxed approach and attitude etc are more important. You need to be of a sufficient standard to pass a BASI level 2 that doing demonstrations for a beginner to average intermediate your skiing ability will be sufficient to do clean accurate demonstrations.
Now yes there is a point that skiing within the given % of a zero point FIS skier would be not only desirable but quite possibly essential along with the ability to teach/instruct, but then you pass that point and the instructor/coach will not be upto the standard of the person they are teaching/coaching ( I doubt that Bodie's coach could out ski him and neither would Usain Bolt's coach out sprint him ). These elite level athletes have discovered something you have yet to, and that is that to teach the best you do not have to be or have been the best, but you do need to be the best at something different and that is analysing, breaking down the actions, understanding biomechanics etc etc etc to help that top athlete become the best they can be. In other words you have to be a great instructor/coach.
TTT, If you do not mind answering this on the inside out skiing levels roughly what standard are you ?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
your skiing ability will be sufficient to do clean accurate demonstrations.
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this is essential - but the key skill, in my book, is being able to identify the one key thing that the "pupil" is getting wrong and giving them clear information as to how to put it right, with relevant drills. There will inevitably be lots of things which aren't quite right - so it's vital to be able to prioritise. This is a skill which rob@rar definitely has. I haven't had lessons with any of the other instructors on the thread - he's probably not the only one!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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speed098, I am familiar with the different ski instructor levels and the difference between performing, instructing and coaching and what trainers think thanks. 've been instructed by ex racers and people doing the ET and can see not only the positive impact on their performance but also their teaching.
No idea on IOS thing - I'm just a punter skier, ski about 50 days a year with people at all levels of BASI system and locals brought up skiing. Do a few weeks training each but just for fun. May do the instructor thing at some point but a certain thread may well have put me off. My interest in the debate comes more from a professional and legal background, working internationally and the psychological biases people show. Hopefully I can see all sides of the argument but also try to have a local perspective as experience generally shows that only those that can see the other side of the debate ultimately succeed. If everyone was laying into SB I would also be pointing out that is not the whole story but there is another side and on that side the debate on here would be seen as very strange.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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TTT, what psychological biases have you shown?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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speed098, Your analogy doesn't really work, the people doing coaching at the highest levels of skiing may not be able to beat their trainees but they have still skied to a level that is a long way above the Eurotest. Most of the French National Team coaches are ex WC racers themselves.
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I'm really not sure what the speed098 question was about. As indicated I'm not interested in the whole level thing as I just ski for fun. I assume as all our views are formed by our experiences speed098 was trying to understand the background to my views which I have tried to explain.
Laundryman as I am human believe it or not I know that I exhibit confirmatory, recency and normality biases because all humans do. It's part of my training to recognise those biases and counteract as it can prove very expensive as SB Is experiencing Therefore in this matter I have read the law to see what it actually says, not want I want to say and listened to the views of lots of different people. I really don't have in skin in the SB game and had no personal knowledge of him before the recent court case so my views are based on actually reading all aspects of the relevant law as these were of professional relevance to me and seeing what they actually say.
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TTT, morning!
The Inside out levels are here ( http://www.insideoutskiing.com/level.html ), it shouldn't ruin your approach to skiing by having a quick look (although it is completely unrelated to this thread).
I'm certainly sitting on the fence here and don't even pretend to understand all the politics involved.
What I can offer is that the ESF do have a cheek... but that is how you get by in business!
I think both TTT and speed 098 have valid points...
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TTT, can you show me chapter and verse which prevents Simon Butler from instructing in France, while allowing all other British ISTDs (that have tried) to do so?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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TTT,
I would be interested in your views on Snowboard instructors, who only have to pass Level 1 skiing as a second discipline, teaching skiing 
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flangesax, is someone trying to pour oil from that fence 
I'm not sure what my ski ability or lack thereof has to do with my understanding of law or teaching.
Of course someone being a good skier does not necessarily make one a good teacher but in my IME there is a very strong correlation as you go through the levels as they not only have more ability but training and experience. I think you will find a basi trainer can do a very clean and accurate snow plough and I know national teams can do a pretty mean snow plough as well.
I know the lower levels can do a good job with beginners but I also know what trainers and locals really think of the lower levels - I could be insulted. I'm not. It's just reality. I don't need to delude myself. As long as safe and having fun not a problem.
I think you will find the ESF and his peers think SB has more than a cheek! So much of the debate is about personal agendas but the law and the verdict are clear.
Must do skiamade again some time soon.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm not quite sure how I became the SH advocate for the French. I don't even ski in France but I'm expecting some free lessons if I do.
SB can't instruct in France because he has not got his ET and EMS and therefore he has not got his carte pro unlike other instructors but you know that. Why he has not got his grandfather rights I suspect only SB, the french authorities and basi know all of whom seem coy on the matter. I have heard lost in post, employing illegally, criminal record, SB refusing, not having done the ET precursor as well as lack of admin and diplomacy on the part of SB. I suspect SB does know.
Adding snowboarders to the mix is just too controversial for me. If pushed though I think they should have their level 2 really if they are teaching skiing to beginners.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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TTT, SB has an ISTD which I have seen physically and which he has shown to others. Not having done a ET, he must have been grandfathered.
The difference with other BASI ISTDs is that his ISTD card does not have a MoU stamp (which it has done in previous years). Now, I think it is generally agreed that non-French, European ISTDs are legally entitled to work in France. As I understand the MoU scheme, it is a voluntary, pilot scheme to facilitate checks. Do you know if it has force of law and if so by what means? If it is so, that would explain the lack of a Carte Pro and everything that followed. What it wouldn't explain is why SB is the only British ISTD without one. One would hope the non-renewal of his MoU was the result of a pre-defined and open process - but I doubt it (psychological bias?). As you say, much is shrouded in mystery.
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laundryman, I don't think SB is on the french list - whether he should or not be I honestly don't know but he seems for whatever reason he missed the boat. Basi indicated that his MoU was issued in error but did not say publicly why. I don't think the MoU has legal force at moment as it is in trial period and is just a facilitation process. Can SB argue that he should have grandfather rights or get them retrospectively I don't know. I thought there was a time limit on getting it sorted which he and others missed. The others then did the ET. SB didn't. You have to question though if everyone else who wanted got their grandfather rights and SB didn't then just may be SB had something to do with it. SB himself wrote on FB himself that he didn't get the rights because he was employing lower levels which I suspect may be the reason.
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You know it makes sense.
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Just a reminder. The charges are:
enseignement du ski par personne non qualifiée - ski instruction without qualifications
emploi de personnes non qualifiées pour enseigner le ski - employing unqualified people to teach skiing
défaut de déclaration de détachement en France de salariés - not declaring employees in France
The status of SB's personal qualifications are only part of the problem for the French authorities.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 23-10-14 10:23; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| TTT wrote: |
Adding snowboarders to the mix is just too controversial for me. If pushed though I think they should have their level 2 really if they are teaching skiing to beginners. |
There are no restrictions on the teaching level. So in theory a snowboarder could teach all levels without having any racing experience or passing the Eurotest.
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Poster: A snowHead
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stewart woodward, that was my understanding too. Don't think it makes sense in my view though as much as I love snowboarders.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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To turn the needle on its head, what are all of your views on Ski ISTDs teaching snowboarding? They may have a Snowboard L1 or may have nothing at all having done telemarking or adaptive as their second discipline.
A British Snowboard ISTD applying for a Carte Pro now will get one that says Snowboard Only, where as a Ski ISTD will get one that allows them to teach snowboarding, seems to me the problem is the other way round.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FWIW : I don't mind people moaning about the "French" system - so long as they do so for valid reasons.
However please don't pretend that it is "anti-British" - this is what annoys me about threads like this.
Everyone knows the principal reason for the euro test, for all its flaws, is to limit the total number of instructors (of all nationality).
Arguably it is harder for a french person to be become fully qualified ?
The test technique is a *very* tough entrance exam before they even start on the career ladder.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| laundryman wrote: |
TTT, SB has an ISTD which I have seen physically and which he has shown to others. Not having done a ET, he must have been grandfathered.
The difference with other BASI ISTDs is that his ISTD card does not have a MoU stamp (which it has done in previous years). Now, I think it is generally agreed that non-French, European ISTDs are legally entitled to work in France. As I understand the MoU scheme, it is a voluntary, pilot scheme to facilitate checks. Do you know if it has force of law and if so by what means? If it is so, that would explain the lack of a Carte Pro and everything that followed. What it wouldn't explain is why SB is the only British ISTD without one. One would hope the non-renewal of his MoU was the result of a pre-defined and open process - but I doubt it (psychological bias?). As you say, much is shrouded in mystery. |
From my reading...
Simon Butler has an old BASI grade I - which is equivalent to the modern ISTD
He however apparently did not accept (or was granted?) his grandfather rights before the cut off date ?
My guess is that he wasn't happy with the historic deal between BASI and French ?
With grandfather rights / MOU he could have worked as an independent - but could not have employed lower level instructors as he had done previously (and continued to do....)
This seems to be the root of this particular issue ?
As ever there are 2 sides to every story.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Agree with all that although I also know that the ET does raise stds by not only making people better skiers but also better teachers as they say they learn a lot from the ET process and I can see an improvement in their skiing and their teaching.
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| TTT wrote: |
| laundryman, I don't think SB is on the french list - whether he should or not be I honestly don't know but he seems for whatever reason he missed the boat. Basi indicated that his MoU was issued in error but did not say publicly why. I don't think the MoU has legal force at moment as it is in trial period and is just a facilitation process. Can SB argue that he should have grandfather rights or get them retrospectively I don't know. I thought there was a time limit on getting it sorted which he and others missed. The others then did the ET. SB didn't. You have to question though if everyone else who wanted got their grandfather rights and SB didn't then just may be SB had something to do with it. SB himself wrote on FB himself that he didn't get the rights because he was employing lower levels which I suspect may be the reason. |
I don't think grandfather rights can be the issue. Those must have been granted or he would not have his ISTD, not having taken the ET. As the MoU is not a legal requirement, I cannot see a legal basis for denying a Carte Pro to a BASI-qualified ISTD. I'm sure he has annoyed people, but I presume that's not a basis for denying legal rights in France. So I'm still puzzled.
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laundryman, SB said on FB himself that he did not have grandfather rights becasue he was employing lower levels if you believe him. I think he had his old level 1 and basi voted to give him his ISTD but to get his carte pro I understand that you also need proof of the ET and EMS unless he could prove grandfather rights which he did not have within the time limits. A basi person of the time said on FB that SB refused them which SB did not refute in the ensuing debate. SB has not helped himself with his approach but I agree that it is not an adequate reason. I think SB is now arguing rightly or wrongly in light of subsequent events that he should have been given them anyway. I really do not know the grandfather rights details but I think he needed to apply for them within a certain time period which he did not do according to those of that era. I agree with everyone including the EU official that SB is very much an individual case with no further repercussions for other ISTDs as SB has tried to insinuate as he is the only ISTD I'm aware of who wants and has not got a carte pro.
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| TTT wrote: |
| stewart woodward, that was my understanding too. Don't think it makes sense in my view though as much as I love snowboarders. |
Makes perfect sense if you view the Eurotest as an artificial barrier to entry rather than the "essential safety test" it purports to be. Snowboard top certs have to do Boardercross so they have their own barrier.
I'd be fine with a snowboard ISTD teaching me skiing if they were a decent skier. Who knows they might bring something new to the party.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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There is indeed a lot better argument for the EMS and a proper language test from a safety perspective. Having to explain to your instructor that we have to change plans based on what the lift operators have just told us otherwise we have a problem does not cut it. The ET does improve standards though just as qualification requirements do in lots other occupations.
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So here's an interesting development on an unrelated matter.
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| Human Rights campaigners and immigrants' support groups have sounded the alarm about the small print in France’s new anti-terrorism bill, which they say will allow Paris to stop the freedom of movement of EU nationals, specifically members of the Roma community. |
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The clause would give France the power to refuse entry to “undesirable” nationals of EU states and their families if they posed a threat to public order or safety.
In full it reads: “Any national of an EU member-state ... or any member of the family of an individual will be banned from entering the French territory if their presence causes a serious threat to a fundamental interest of society, in terms of public order or security, because of their personal behaviour.”
Critics say the wording of the clause is so vague it could be used to prevent EU migrants from entering France, notably those from Eastern Europe. |
Will foreign ski instructors in breach of French law be barred from returning?...
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