 Poster: A snowHead
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tell the camera dude to STFU.
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 Megamum, do you actually enjoy your skiing? It's such a shame, if you don't.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Megamum wrote: |
| I fancy the last 15 seconds are possibly the best skiing here |
I saw better skiing from you in VT, perhaps because the snow was a bit softer than it appears in that clip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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gatecrasher, 20 days. I don't think ski technique has evolved much in that time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The lengthy essays are good and well. But quite confusing.
If I was teaching you I'd start by getting you focussing mainly on A cancelling out the traverse. Skiing is just like riding a bicycle; very rhythmical. The downward pressure you put on your skis should feel very similar to when your on a bike and pedalling. Obviously you don't actually lift your inside ski up, but the pressure transfer should be just the same (nice and gradual, but consistent right the way through and the rhythm shouldn't stop.
The next thing, B, would be to get working your poles! Getting in the habit of good pole planting not only works wonders to rhythm (linking in nicely to above) but also encourages you to get on the new outside ski more quickly and will come in very helpful on steeper stuff. It will also help with ironing out some of that plough parallel you have going on.
One drill which I think would help you a lot is by putting your poles behind your knees and holding them by putting both hands between your legs. So your knees will be stuck at two fist widths apart and you will be bent very far foreword. And you will be totally reliant on pressure control for turning. Best to try on a gentle slope but I always find works well killing the plough.
Someone mentioned counting around your turns (turn, 123, turn, 123, etc) which is good for this but make sure 1 is initiating the turn, 2 is in line with the fall line, and 3 is finishing the turn.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| kitenski wrote: |
Jack, so your advising a nervous skier to carve throughtout??? that will massively increase her speed and wont help at all.
as to body facing downhill all the time, that was the case many years ago on 203cm straight skis but is no longer done day to day. i'd only do it on a very narrow off piste couloir..... |
that my son is why you are practising your bumps.
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Fair point. Well put 
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rob@rar, thank you, I must admit I didn't get any filming done on decent snow - it was not as hard as it is in that clip when we went up to Col that day. I find when its hard that skis sort of 'skitter' around more and its harder to gain definitive control of exactly where they are going to grip next. It would be good to see myself skiing in decent conditions.
pam w, the honest answer to that is not always, but more now than I used to. I find skiing incredibly frustrating, but immensely satisfying when I know I've made a decent job of a slope, or achieved something I haven't done before, I love the craic and the just being part of something that I never thought I'd get a chance to do, and being up in the mountains and out in the snow (I have a child like fascination with snow). This holiday the satisfaction came from: finally skiing Col (twice!!) - first time up was really good as the snow verged on excellent and not many folk had been on it, I made a good fist of the Orelle red with Greg when it was rock hard - made some nice shaped turns even on the really steep bit, I coped with a new really steep bit on the way to Les Menuires, and I skied my old friend 'Fond' as well as I've ever skied it with Greg The times I had what I'd term real fun was skiing Genepi with TallTone (I fair raced down her ) and, although I was totally outclassed, I had great fun on the couple of runs I did with rob@rar, masque and Co., I would really like to thank all of that group for taking the time to wait for me and letting me come along with my peers for just for a short time. TBH I would have like to skied with a few more different groups as I love the company of people that I don't see very often. I think the 'fun' is in the whole package as well as the occasional really spectacular run, otherwise its achievement factor that has the draw for me, which is why I get cross with myself when I think I am letting myself down - as with that stem in the turn,
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 14-05-13 21:21; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| cammyammy wrote: |
One drill which I think would help you a lot is by putting your poles behind your knees and holding them by putting both hands between your legs. So your knees will be stuck at two fist widths apart and you will be bent very far foreword. And you will be totally reliant on pressure control for turning. Best to try on a gentle slope but I always find works well killing the plough.
Someone mentioned counting around your turns (turn, 123, turn, 123, etc) which is good for this but make sure 1 is initiating the turn, 2 is in line with the fall line, and 3 is finishing the turn.[/i][/size] |
This drill sounds intriguing, do you hold poles horizontal or vertical?
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| kitenski wrote: |
| cammyammy wrote: |
One drill which I think would help you a lot is by putting your poles behind your knees and holding them by putting both hands between your legs. So your knees will be stuck at two fist widths apart and you will be bent very far foreword. And you will be totally reliant on pressure control for turning. Best to try on a gentle slope but I always find works well killing the plough.
Someone mentioned counting around your turns (turn, 123, turn, 123, etc) which is good for this but make sure 1 is initiating the turn, 2 is in line with the fall line, and 3 is finishing the turn.[/i][/size] |
This drill sounds intriguing, do you hold poles horizontal or vertical? |
Horizontal, I believe, although isn't that an edging (parallel shins) drill rather than a pressure management drill?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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do you hold poles horizontal or vertical?
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holding your poles vertically between your legs could be a tad hazardous....
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otherwise its achievement factor that has the draw for me, which is why I get cross with myself when I think I am letting myself down - as with that stem in the turn
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I agree it's great to nail something that's been eluding you, and I really enjoy lessons for that reason, but it's also great just to swoop around on great snow, preferably in the sun, just cruising. That doesn't mean doing difficult slopes - it's nice to do a slope well within your capacity, and feel those good sensations. I find music helps a lot to keep me both relaxed and rhythmical; it's not for everyone, but why not give it a go?
I don't think I "get cross with myself" if I get something wrong and certainly don't think in terms of "letting myself down". I might just grimace, or giggle, and try to remember to get it right next time. I also tend not to go and ski runs I know I will find really tricky - I enjoy skiing more if I can "dance down the mountain" and I enjoy it more when the snow is really good and the run is deserted. Crowded pistes are no fun at all and lift queues suck. You seem to give yourself a really hard time! Be nicer to yourself.  Skiing is too expensive not to enjoy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Skiing is too expensive not to enjoy.
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Absolutely.
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That 2nd video (only watched half as on v slow free hotel WiFi) re enforces my early comment, focus on getting weight onto your new downhill ski early. In that vid your pushing the new downhill ski away which causes the plough at the start.....
If your feeling brave, find a very gentle green and see how early you can lift the new uphill ski, if that is in the air you won't be able to push the downhill ski away.
But your banned from bend ze knees so stop reading
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You know it makes sense.
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Quote:
do you hold poles horizontal or vertical?
holding your poles vertically between your legs could be a tad hazardous....
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Especially if you weren't paying attention to which end the points were!!
Seriously I can see how it might prevent stemming. There must be a movement apart with the legs for it to happen at all. The thing with it is that I was completely unaware that I was doing it. Obviously I can't feel me doing it, I think if I could feel it I could stop it. Something that stopped the legs from moving like that pole drill would leave turning down to pressure, whether that would be enough to turn if the movement was sufficiently limited that you couldn't steer your foot around the turn I don't know.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| kitenski wrote: |
| cammyammy wrote: |
One drill which I think would help you a lot is by putting your poles behind your knees and holding them by putting both hands between your legs. So your knees will be stuck at two fist widths apart and you will be bent very far foreword. And you will be totally reliant on pressure control for turning. Best to try on a gentle slope but I always find works well killing the plough.
Someone mentioned counting around your turns (turn, 123, turn, 123, etc) which is good for this but make sure 1 is initiating the turn, 2 is in line with the fall line, and 3 is finishing the turn.[/i][/size] |
This drill sounds intriguing, do you hold poles horizontal or vertical? |
Horizontal, I believe, although isn't that an edging (parallel shins) drill rather than a pressure management drill? |
Yup!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Megamum, this is the problem with bzk, how can that drill stop you pushing/rotating your outside ski away??? I don't see how it would help having thought about it a bit.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Why not just do the "one foot" drill? Get the weight on the uphill ski before you start the turn, then keep it there till you've finished, when you will immediately need to shift onto the new uphill ski. If the weight is really on that (new) outside ski before you start the turn you can't push it away - or not without falling over, at any rate.
But I still think you should stop worrying about it and just have fun..... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| kitenski wrote: |
| Megamum, this is the problem with bzk, how can that drill stop you pushing/rotating your outside ski away??? I don't see how it would help having thought about it a bit. |
It's purely a railing type drill to stop you turning your feet at initiation to progress to carving, well that's what we used it for anyway. The idea being you concentrate on rolling the knees evenly.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Megamum, fwiw I was doing the same as you 2 years ago, pushing away with my new outer ski rather than transferring weight on it. I 'fixed' it after it was identified on my L1 course, just by my trainer telling me not to push away. some low speed parallel turns and one legged drills helped. Neither work if you push away.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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kitenski, I would assume that the drill just held both feet so ridgidly in line with each other that neither ski couldpush away independantly,perhaps I am looking at it too simplistically.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've been trying it in my hotel room albeit without skis or poles and can't see how it would stop your feet rotating....I do like it as a carving drill and will try it out at Xscape myself I reckon.
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Megamum,
I'll give you a few simple things I'd like to see you working on, on more gentle slopes to start with.
1, Raise your hands up from your elbows a bit; roughly to in-line with your belly button; and out to the side; imagine you are cuddling a large teddy bear! As you do this bring your shoulders forward a bit.
2, As Rob has mentioned; lets have a bit more movement from your ankles.
3, Try and work on being smoother with all the movements; you are a bit rushed as you accelerate into the turn; you need to be on more gentle terrain to work on flowing smooth movements.
I'd like to get you to keep turning UNTIL you are happy to go faster; it will help if you look back after you have done a few turns (say 10 or 20) and have a look at your tracks; are you making linked up 'c" shapes (or "s"'s ) down the hil?l; to help with this; you'll need to get rid of the camera man for a while so you can get a clear picture of what you are doing.
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| Megamum wrote: |
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up/down movement - what benefit do you think this is going to give you???
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It's that thing about unweighting the skis with the 'up' movement so they are easier to turn and then sinking down following the turn. I know what I am supposed to do, I just don't seem to be able to do it, even when I think I am. |
I must admit I was completely gobsmacked when the cameraman kept telling you to up-down. To my eyes it was completely screwing you up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| So it is OK these days NOT to face down the hill the whole time?? |
Usually I end up pointing towards the outside ski to some extent. Personally I don't agree with keeping squared up (as you are) but I don't think that's your issue.
However for fun I have taken the liberty of editing your video to show how you would look like when you don't just follow the skis
Megamum remix
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| kitenski wrote: |
| I've been trying it in my hotel room albeit without skis or poles and can't see how it would stop your feet rotating....I do like it as a carving drill and will try it out at Xscape myself I reckon. |
I've seen it used as an edge control drill when traversing only, rather than when you are linking turns. I don't like the drill as it puts you into such weird position. I suppose it might have some use on a green slope if you are using it to keep shins parallel doing something like an ankle roll drill, but outside of that I'd not use it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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As I am completely unqualified , in every sense, to offer advice the following is just a question for my own benefit. Am I correct in thinking that most of the turning effect in the videos is basically coming from Megamum almost turning her ankles in the direction she wants to go? Rather than weight and balance causing the ski itself to initiate the turn?
Otherwise, from my idiot perspective:
1. Stop thinking too hard
2. More use of poles
3. Weight a little further forward to throw into the turns (???)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| OK, I can't fix everything in one hit, so I've decided that what I want to fix first is that fishtail in the back of the skis. I didn't know I was doing it, I can't feel myself doing it, and it looks completely amateurish ('dorky' isn't actually a bad description). I must really work on getting that weight onto what will be the outside ski earlier. |
IMHO no or rather not yet.
Your skis are getting stuck when you start turning so you have to start pushing and shoving to get them round and they don't stay parallel. They are getting stuck because most of your weight is on the tails. If you were centered they would come round easi(er)(ly).
Imagine or try this. If you stand in ski boots and face across the slope it is flat. You can feel equal weight on the toes and heels. Now swivel 90 degrees so you are pointing down the hill, you basically have to dig your heels into stay upright and your toes are flapping in the air. You have to lean forward to get some weight on those toes (and you'll obviously take off wheeee). So back on skis you know when they point down the hill and you are standing 'up' most of the weight is on the tails.
Still with me?
Here's the thing, starting a turn increases the angle of the slope (as far as the skis are concerned) until you get to the fall line and as we now know to stay centered on a slope you have to get forward. Ergo you need a forward* move at the start of the turn. This is why the 'up' move is such a disaster.
This is known as the OSHITSHITSHIT phase of the turn for obvious reasons.
*There are different ways of achieving this but it HAS to happen or you have to resort to something energetic to turn.
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Kenny, I bet we'd all like to be able to ski like that - just the fitness involved in being able to sustain that for such a long distance is amazing!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| Kenny, I bet we'd all like to be able to ski like that - just the fitness involved in being able to sustain that for such a long distance is amazing! |
No, the complete opposite. If you use good technique the skis work much more effectively so you need to use less energy to achieve the same outcome than skiing with poor technique.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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foxtrotzulu, as in this case... by "not" using edge & pressure to help utilise the turning benefits of sidecut and ski flex/bend, the only main force left for turning is steering as you say and is what's happening here.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Megamum wrote: |
| Kenny, I bet we'd all like to be able to ski like that - just the fitness involved in being able to sustain that for such a long distance is amazing! |
Yes he is constantly moving to stay balanced and he has to resist huge pressures and so on. But to actually turn he isn't doing much at all just letting the skis do what they are designed to do. Which is what we need to get you doing .
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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P'raps we should just get some big black dots for that white ski suit and be done with it.
The biggest spotty dog you ever did see.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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there are several suggestions on this thread which arent good for you.
One drill which I think would help you a lot is by putting your poles behind your knees and holding them by putting both hands between your legs. So your knees will be stuck at two fist widths apart and you will be bent very far foreword. And you will be totally reliant on pressure control for turning. Best to try on a gentle slope but I always find works well killing the plough.
that being one of them... That drill has only very very limited use and success in my experience and tends to do more harm than good and most people end up with way too much knee flex, sit down with little ankle flex when trying it. You need more ankle flex and this would harm rather than help imo...
If you want to practice in the off season go back to what your qualified instructor did with you in VT over your 10 hours of lessons, pick a couple of drills that Greg suggested and continue to work on those. When you go back on Holiday have fun and just ski a bit... I know you like chatting here but getting more and more suggestions for drills and technical improvements will not help you make progress, agreed with the Paralysis by Analysis comment..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Of all of the advice on here, having fun and enjoying your skiing without pressure is the best.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I agree with Hells Bells. My next drill will be a cordless Makita.
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Tarquin,
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I find the pole behind knees drill works well on gentle green/blue runs with people who are wanting to nail parallel turns. I use it a lot when my students have too much upper body movement, or stem too much, and is often the case both. And it works a treat, definitely not harmful. It may force you into a funny, very forward, but I don't see that as an issue as its forcing you off the back seat, which is very harmful. It has its place. And there's lots of variants on the theme.
The problem with lifting the inside ski up as someone mentioned is that there's a reason the stems there. Ie, balance is off. So you may find that clients simply can't do it without falling over. Which is harmful to confidence. Winding it back slightly and lifting the uphill ski on the traverse and bring it into the turn more and more would be the way to go, and then on a gentle gradient practice lifting the inside ski up whilst turning but pressing the tip into the snow.
But to be honest, everyone and their mothers have a different way of teaching. And it's very difficult giving a ski lesson on a forum. Personally it looks like an info overload. So ultimately my advice is go with a good instructor, and if he's worth his tuppence he'll get you sorted. If your on your own arm yourself with appropriate drills and go to the snow dome for an hour or two and focus on ONE thing, ie pressure control or pole planting. But as others say, if you worry about it too much your not enjoying yourself.
As a skde note; BASI ex chairman Andrew Lockerbie wrote a book which I find very useful when teaching if I ever run out of things to do. Might be worth a look at as well if self teaching. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ski-Instructors-Handbook-Technical-Skills/dp/0955625114?tag=amz07b-21
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Megamum, Congratulations on starting what promises to be the most interesting technical (spat) thread this side of inner tip lead.
What you absolutely need to do though is not try to follow any of the technical advice on here and next time you ski, focus at most on one thing that Greg taught you. Except if it is with the IO boys in which case you'll be spending all your energy trying to persuade them not to make you do anything too nasty.
Edit: doh skimottaret has already said this without the subtle self-pimping (I'll take my commission at the usual rate of £20 per mention guys).
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FAQ
