 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I phoned SE two weeks ago under the pretence of booking a school trip to Canada later this year. They were fully prepared to take my booking.
I then phoned them last week and asked were they taking bookings for this coming season and was told that they were. I then asked if they were still trading as I had heard they were having financial problems. I was told they were still trading and were possibly taking bookings. I suggested that if they were still trading as a travel company then they must surely be taking bookings as that is what they trade in.
I suggested to them that perhaps they should provide the holidays already paid for or return the money before they start extorting more money from other unsuspecting victims.
I have to say that the rep I spoke to wasnt in any way phased by the conversation we had. They are experts at this.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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snowbunnie333, The detail of this scam is eye-watering in it's efficiency. The stalking of schools that are so numerous it is near-impossible to communicate with is masterful and the hundreds of people left out of packet for good amount of money is expert. The coachdriver exposes the detail of a trip we were missing; good people working hard to bail out a disaster trip and embarassed party leaders trying to bury the story.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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snowbunnie333,  what scumbags!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
embarassed party leaders trying to bury the story
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noskitrip, excellent point. Very few people are prepared to hold their hands up and declare in public that they have been duped. SE clearly feeds on this weakness.
edit to add another thought - a question for the education folk - seeing as SE/CR primarily feed off educational establishments, is there a vehicle within education to send out a national alert/warning for this sort of thing?
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RandomCoachDriver,
Were there any under 16s on the school trip? If so Skiing Europe clearly broke the law in not providing the accomodation address to the parents before departure.
I very much doubt that any insurance company would want to continue to continue to provide the cover that Reynard needs to carry on operating to someone who breaks the Regulations in such a manner. And I would be amazed if they didn't have such a get out in their contract.
The otther thing RCD's accounts shows is how correct schools such as Reading, Tavistock and Tonbridge were in not proceeding with their trips.
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RandomCoachDriver,
It also appears from your account that Reynard is using the argument that staff/instructors do not need to be paid as he has made them redudant - this is of course complete and total rubbish and all those affected should make sure that they claim every penny due from Reynard.
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...and not only that, depending on how long they have worked for SE (IIRC it's now 12 months), and weekly hours worked, they may be legally entitled to redundancy pay in addition to any outstanding earnings - it's the law!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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RCD, I don't know if you work for John***n's Coaches but they are a great source of information via the drivers' network and will be able to give all sorts of details about cancelled coaches from the half term week. I think they're based in Warwickshire if anyone feels like contacting them.
I have a friend who works at Kingsmead, and yes, they were booked with SE, yes it was cancelled, and the figure I heard was £30,000 so add that to the tally. There are two more Somerset schools who booked in half term and paid for over 70 kids so add on a further £55,000 - £60,000.
What are the Devon police actually doing about it, does anyone know?
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| skigirl35 wrote: |
| ....What are the Devon police actually doing about it, does anyone know? |
Nothing, I imagine, unless anybody has made a complaint of a crime to them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Stephen101 wrote: |
RandomCoachDriver,
Were there any under 16s on the school trip? If so Skiing Europe clearly broke the law in not providing the accomodation address to the parents before departure.
I very much doubt that any insurance company would want to continue to continue to provide the cover that Reynard needs to carry on operating to someone who breaks the Regulations in such a manner. And I would be amazed if they didn't have such a get out in their contract.
The otther thing RCD's accounts shows is how correct schools such as Reading, Tavistock and Tonbridge were in not proceeding with their trips. |
They were all 16 and under, If anyone wants to use what I have said in any reports please do so, I would be happy to repeat anything I have mensioned.
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| skigirl35 wrote: |
RCD, I don't know if you work for John***n's Coaches but they are a great source of information via the drivers' network and will be able to give all sorts of details about cancelled coaches from the half term week. I think they're based in Warwickshire if anyone feels like contacting them.
I have a friend who works at Kingsmead, and yes, they were booked with SE, yes it was cancelled, and the figure I heard was £30,000 so add that to the tally. There are two more Somerset schools who booked in half term and paid for over 70 kids so add on a further £55,000 - £60,000.
What are the Devon police actually doing about it, does anyone know? |
Yes I do, I don't mind saying,
Johnsons Quality Coach Travel
Liveridge House
Liveridge Hill
Henley in Arden
Warwickshire
B95 5QS
01564 797000
If anyone would like to contact them regarding this. I would however be appreciated if you could not let them know where you have got the info from. Thank you
Last thing, Johnsons Took A Lot of SE bookings because previous to this, the coach companies originally used, refused to take them because they didnt cough up the profit, however Johnsons were ''Apparently'' aware of this
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You know it makes sense.
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These are the guys we took, look how happy they are, and how much had to be kept from them because if SE!!!
Picture gone for obvious reasons... Sorry 
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 5-05-11 21:50; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| RandomCoachDriver wrote: |
| Yes I do, I don't mind saying, |
I bet your office parties ain't as fun now that Terry has left
It's a small world
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lovely photo of smiling happy children. Does the heart good, and I don't want to be curmudgeonly, but should a photo of under 16s be posted on the internet without permission?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 5-05-11 10:09; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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RandomCoachDriver, you may now want to edit some posts you made earlier about the breaking of drivers hours regulations!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Frosty the Snowman, I remember Pandora complaining about such actions from SkiBeat's coach drivers
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@ccl @frosty
Come on! Seriously. That's just pedantic.
btw - I may have missed it earlier on this thread, but the BBC Radio report (You and Yours programme, 8th April 2011) about SE failing to deliver can be found here (its the first 18+minutes of the programme):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b0100j8y
In any case, its a good synopsis of the outrageous situation for those joining this thread for the first time with first hand accounts from 2 schools.
It includes CE claiming 'commercial sabotage' for lack of funds and there was a lot more liberal discussion on this programme from the Mount Grace and KingsMead speakers than on this thread at times. A bit depressing listening.
CE declined to participate with the BBC but provided statements saying SE hadn't cancelled trips... bla bla bla.
AiTO are not off the hook either and cannot dodge the situation they were covering. It just needs to be progressed with the legal process that the schools involved have initiated.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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In all seriousness I have a friend who pops on to snowheads now and then ... who works for VOSA checking up on lorries and buses etc
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RandomCoachDriver, Top Fella and hats of to you 
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| snowjoe wrote: |
| .....AiTO are not off the hook either and cannot dodge the situation they were covering. It just needs to be progressed with the legal process that the schools involved have initiated. |
That's very authoritative. Are you a High Court judge?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| snowjoe wrote: |
@ccl
Come on! Seriously. That's just pedantic.
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Not at all pedantic and my question was and remains perfectly serious in terms of the children's rights to privacy and, as under 16s, their parents' possible rights to require permission for their children's photos to be posted. If I were more certain about the matter , I wouldn't be putting it as a question. It's maybe not a big deal in terms of the children concerned and obviously an entirely innocent matter on the part of RandomCochDriver, but I did think it was worth moderators' consideration in case Snowheads might be getting it wrong.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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[quote="achilles
quote/
That's very authoritative. Are you a High Court judge?[/quote]
Course not! Just extrapolating what was said on the BBC stream, around 15m in where they mention that AITO have not backed away from their commitment but simply need to await a judgement which will be a green light (or red light) to move on. Of course they will use any small print they can to avoid paying out to the schools, but it was encouraging to hear that they are at least engaged in the process 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| leedsunited wrote: |
ccl, I understand your concern about Snowheads but surely not all the images at the link below have had parents consent......
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My thoughts exactly. Its a holiday snap. They posed for the photo. Lets just not go there and leave it for another thread
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snowjoe, If the moderators are happy that's fine but it was certainly worthy of drawing to their attention and I am sure they will indeed go there, if only briefly, in order to consider a point seriously brought to their attention.
leedsunited,
Just as a matter of ethics, however, no number of things that are wrong but go by uncorrected make them or another instance of the same right.
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You know it makes sense.
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snowjoe, not quite what the lady said this is a transcript of part of it -
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| ...when is the policy triggered ... schools not yet travelled should make sure they have in writing from SE exactly what has been booked for them and if SE does not have this information ...the school contact the insurance broker ... for correct couse of action. |
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ccl, I'm unaware of any UK law which would prohibit the photo shown, or that would require parental permission for it to be displayed.
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Poster: A snowHead
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achilles, That's fine. Thanks for considering the point.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ccl, mmm. I've dug around on this. There are 2 concerns - some of the children could be in the vulnerable category without us knowing. The other is that, notwithstanding what the law is:
| Quote: |
| There seems to be a widespread assumption that the only possible explanation for any adult photographing children who are not their own is that they are a pervert with a camera. Proceed with extreme care and sensitivity, and if at all possible ask permission. |
I'll follow this up a bit more.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| achilles wrote: |
ccl,
I'll follow this up a bit more. |
Please don't  I take the point that it was worth a question. I just wish I hadn't interjected. I'm not a forum veteran but this will be a rat-hole and frankly I hate this PC stuff. Its definitely my last comment on it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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As a teacher, my understanding of the issue regarding photographing children was that it was to protect the privacy of 'cared for' or otherwise 'vulnerable' children.
This resulted in a situation where no parent could photograph school plays/sports days etc, in case it invaded the privacy of these children (eg by revealing their location to a parent from whose care they had been legally removed).
This always seemed an extreme reaction, and this has been widely relaxed - I also believe that the official guidelines have been relaxed and that unless a specific 'opt out' of being photograhed is requested, then photographing a child/children is perfectly OK (unless they are engaged in swimming/gymnastics etc - for an entirely different set of reasons...)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| achilles wrote: |
ccl, mmm. I've dug around on this. There are 2 concerns - some of the children could be in the vulnerable category without us knowing. The other is that, notwithstanding what the law is:
| Quote: |
| There seems to be a widespread assumption that the only possible explanation for any adult photographing children who are not their own is that they are a pervert with a camera. Proceed with extreme care and sensitivity, and if at all possible ask permission. |
I'll follow this up a bit more. |
I take loads of pictures of other peoples kids, I promise I am not a pervert.
It would be weird for someone spending a week long hol with a bunch of people, adults or children, and not take any pics of them.
I dont think theres anything wrong with posting this picture on SH, for all you know RCD did have permission. Please lets not start going down the lines of having to have proof of parentage or proof of agreement to sharing the photo for every photo on here of a child under 16.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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snowjoe, it ain't your forum - or mine for that matter. It is admin's. He has a care for the wider snowheads community, and the mods try to act on his behalf.
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Hey guys, don't let me cause a digression from the main point of this thread. I asked a concerned question and Achilles has answered it and will no doubt consider it further if he thinks it necessary. If there is a wish to have a general debate on such things, I suggest a different thread.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 5-05-11 18:42; edited 1 time in total
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Shimmy Alcott, daveyladboy, thank you for your input.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ccl, at least it keeps this thread going
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| Wayne wrote: |
| RandomCoachDriver wrote: |
| Yes I do, I don't mind saying, |
I bet your office parties ain't as fun now that Terry has left
It's a small world |
Sorry mate, relatively new to Johnsons, so unsure who Terry is.
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FAQ
