 Poster: A snowHead
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@Fat George, perhaps in the role description they should have included the important requirement "Ensure all pigs are fed, watered and ready for take off" 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Anyway why is late March and they are still looking to fill this role? The interim GM who replaced the sacked CEO who replaced the guy who walked out on the role was only supposed to be 8 months from early April so the GM should surely have been appointed and transitioning by October?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Alastair Pink]
Yup! 
Any poor successful applicant would be badgered to death to increase income, q.v., 'improve the membership offer', and closely watched . . .
Given the Council seem committed to their 'vision' that they say is already 'sorted', wherein a lot of the benefits of being a member supposedly lay, I don't see how one could 'improve the membership offer' in any major way, i.e. increase income by making it more attractive to be a member?
| On the rocks wrote: |
. . . failing that magic up a way to give the remaining members value to renew their subs . . . |
Perhaps Derren Brown applied.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This is all redolent of the slow and tortuous decline of Sunshine Desserts.
Symbolically the letters will start to fall off the sign outside HQ.
Soon it will announce itself as the S ow C ub of eat rita. After another stormy night it could become S u f e r a.
Sadly appropriate and avoidable.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The job description exemplifies council perfectly.
Anyone remotely competent will know whether to apply.
Others, less accustomed to evidence led determination should find themselves in good company.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| Fat George wrote: |
| ed123 wrote: |
. . .
Be a “servant leader” for the Ski Club team . . .
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Crikey.
Apart from the sickening management cobblers they use in their spiel,.... |
It certainly ticked a few management "buzzword bingo" boxes didn't it?  |
Yabbut that's a new one in me.
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@achilles
Yeah.
"Oxymoron:
A figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction"
e.g. servant leader.
Terribly good.
A fine mess.
I expect they will also have a working holiday.
I'm expecting a deafening silence.
The successful applicant will need to want a love-hate relationship.
FFS
PS. How's the heel?
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| Super Chap Great Bloke wrote: |
The job description exemplifies council perfectly.
Anyone remotely competent will know whether to apply.
Others, less accustomed to evidence led determination should find themselves in good company. |
Yes. It's the board of a failing organisation advertising a senior role with the proviso "Under no circumstances are you to tell us where we are going wrong".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| eblunt wrote: |
| Super Chap Great Bloke wrote: |
The job description exemplifies council perfectly.
Anyone remotely competent will know whether to apply.
Others, less accustomed to evidence led determination should find themselves in good company. |
Yes. It's the board of a failing organisation advertising a senior role with the proviso "Under no circumstances are you to tell us where we are going wrong". |
Absolutely, they are hapless, totally out of their collective depths. There mere use of the word 'servant', in whatever context, tells you all you need to know.
Go onto one of the Facebook groups and you'll see evidence of people leaving in their droves, you'll see an ex-director attempting to organise what appears to be "a bash" akin to what you have here, and you'll see people wondering why they aren't getting some kind of subs refund for the non-delivery of any services this season, and you'll also see disgruntled members moaning about the current 25% off membership 'drive'. Oh, and just for fun you'll still see it being suggested they can operate 'under the radar' leading on snow in France (and even places like St Anton), despite the fact French courts have told them firmly "non". French prison food must be ok though. As far as I can tell, the ONLY person on Earth who wants to join (or is it rejoin?) at the moment is Davina Goldballs and they don't want her/him. You can't make it up really. All he does is tell them what they don't want to hear, hence why any incoming Board Servant will fail.
£80k pa is not going to attract anyone good enough to turn this ship around. But, in any case, it isn't possible while the board is rep-loaded and the costs of rep freebies is being borne by a dwindling number of Freshtracks punters, holidays that are uncompetitive from the get go. The overhaul needed to save it just isn't going to happen. It's doomed Capt Mainwaring.
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@Pruman, I agree with everything you say; except regarding Freshtracks (that is the off piste holidays). Freshtracks value compares with SOPiB and Snoworks, and there's a very big market for such trips, as shown by the speed SOPiB gets sold out. SCGB has more off piste holidays than the two combined. However there is really no need for a SCGB rep to act as back marker now that they are not allowed to lead on warm up days.
Sadly I've sometimes noticed a social pecking order between those members who join just for Freshtracks (holiday skiers) and members who valued the Leader service and fail to understand why it can't continue, as you say under the radar. I'm led to understand that there is no cross-subsidy between Freshtracks and Membershio Services, other than jollies for the holiday reps and a proportion of annual subscriptions.
If Freshtracks is bought down by the SCGB's problems then it could be sold off, or someone else will fill the gap in the market
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| On the rocks wrote: |
| @Pruman, I agree with everything you say; except regarding Freshtracks (that is the off piste holidays). Freshtracks value compares with SOPiB and Snoworks, |
I have not 'consumed' Fresh Tracks holidays first-hand to compare 'the experience', and of course, you don't have a great deal of experience of Bashes (yet ). But I'd be most interested to know what they're putting into their trips to add enough value to warrant some of the prices.
To be clear, I'm not here trying to prove "Bashes are Better": They are designed around a quite different model so differentiation should prevail over comparison.
But when I've looked (which admittedly is not very often) the top line prices of comparable offerings by the SCGB, seem pretty high, once obvious differences have been accounted for.
For example, prompted by your post, I had a look and they appear to have introduced an Off Piste week in Serre Chevalier, the same dates as the SOPiB (erm... subtle!  )
The differences as far as I can see: the hotel is 3* rather than 2* and they include flight and transfer. But for this, you'll pay £792 extra! Plus the membership fee, of course.
That seems a pretty hefty mark-up to me: something like £2-300 extra per person after generous allowances for the apparent differences. OTOH, pick up some cheap flights at the right time and a little canny negotiation and we could be looking at close to £500 extra margin there - per person! 
Again, I'm really not trying to say that the bashes are better - they're meant to be different enough that comparisons are fairly moot. But, while there may be value in the SCGB offerings that I'm unaware of, as someone familiar with skiing off-piste, in that area, who values instruction and guiding, I'd have thought extra value on that kind of scale would be apparent to me. If it isn't, prospective customers probably won't be seeing it either.
| Quote: |
| and there's a very big market for such trips, as shown by the speed SOPiB gets sold out. |
50 people, 1 week per year - is not exactly proof of a 'very big market'.
| Quote: |
| SCGB has more off piste holidays than the two combined. However there is really no need for a SCGB rep to act as back marker now that they are not allowed to lead on warm up days. |
To be candid here, I have no desire to compete with the SCGB - we have had more than enough opportunity to copy their model and given some of their recent troubles, it almost feels like a responsible thing to do, for the wider skiing community, to offer an alternative as they founder. But I'd probably just be accused of putting the boot in when they're down and frankly it's not a model that particularly interests me, personally.
As fun as it is to tell tale of the SOPiB selling out in 12hours (OMG it's like Glasters-on-snow!  it isn't really), it's not really an ideal situation. It's not nice to think of noobies feeling they can't get a look-in, or regulars/friends feeling excluded. So the last thing I need is for the SCGB to mess up and create a big influx of demand from disenfranchised Tea Club members expecting Sherry at 7, Brandy at 9 (or whatever it is differentiates The Club these days.)
Honestly, I don't think the typical SCGB clientThere's a lady I see most year's at a Xmas thing. She knows I'm 'something in skiing' and delights in telling me annually, that she's a member of the SCGB. "Had to join it to go on a holiday with a friend and the bugs are still taking money off me every year." Must be over 15 years since she first told me that! is particularly cost-conscious so it probably doesn't really matter, but out of academic interest, if you do think they are of comparable value despite these dramatically higher prices, I'd love to understand the basis?
| Quote: |
| If Freshtracks is bought down by the SCGB's problems then it could be sold off, or someone else will fill the gap in the market |
Perhaps Caroline S-T will take it back off them
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@admin, when I’ve looked like for like with 5 or 6 days off piste guiding I’ve found the overall cost to be within 10-15%. Of course some Scgb holidays are very expensive with overly posh hotels, for which the clientele is self selecting. One trip to St Anton had a choice of 2 hotels. We had a meet up one evening and the posh contingent dressed for dinner!! I’ve been with Scgb to Flaine a few times with much more favourable prices and top rate guiding/instruction . The key buying motive is to enjoy and improve off post skiing in groups at just the right level to push oneself. This is not usually possible with friends or family. Being addicted to powder like many snowheads you have to go for what you can get , particularly if your dates are limited by work or other factors
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Here's a really radical thing - you have a thing which provides good value holidays doing some quite advanced skiing etc - you call it a Tour Operator, charge an appropriate price and pay all your staff costs from it including those for anyone who is going to tag along with groups as some sort of banter yoda.
You provide another mechanism for people who want to ski together to contact each other and plan their outings - you might call this Facebook if you can't be arsed investing in and maintaining separate infrastructure. If sufficient of those people want to hire a guide or instructor maybe you have a recommended list with some published ratecards available to the Facebook group. Banter yodas are of course free to join outings as they wish at their own cost.
You don't need a full membership organisation for all of that so you don't need the infrastruture funding.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, Usually have to book a good guide quite far in advance especially in peak weeks. The Guides office couldn’t find me anyone in Verbier this weekend.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, Usually have to book a good guide quite far in advance especially in peak weeks. The Guides office couldn’t find me anyone in Verbier this weekend. |
Fair enough - but let's say this Faceache SCGB get themselves organised enough in advance (like when the members are going to be on holiday there) they can secure the guide at the time. I think there is a distinct possibility is that the unsaid thing with ILG is that it's primarily a benefit for geezonaires who only want to take it up on days when the snow is good.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, Usually have to book a good guide quite far in advance especially in peak weeks. The Guides office couldn’t find me anyone in Verbier this weekend. |
Fair enough - but let's say this Faceache SCGB get themselves organised enough in advance (like when the members are going to be on holiday there) they can secure the guide at the time. I think there is a distinct possibility is that the unsaid thing with ILG is that it's primarily a benefit for geezonaires who only want to take it up on days when the snow is good. |
Yes exactly, if you have reliable mates and someone to organize it works. If you are relying on randoms someone probably gets burnt. This is the service SCGB offers and I’m sure it’s a good one if you’re not price sensitive. It seems @admin does it much more efficiently and passes the (significant) savings on to his grateful « friends » 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@BobinCH, I think the SCGB ILG service is probably a great one if it's available in the resort you are going to, at the time you are going and enough people show up to allow it to happen. Happy days if you meet all those criteria. I'm not sure why it needs to run at a (general membership subsidised) loss however other than a "we'll get (even) lower uptake if we actually charge the true marginal cost" reasoning. If it couldn't sustain itself PAYG how is it a benefit across the whole population?
Business models tend to be - aggregate demand, get better rates, more people sign up virtuous circle type things.
SCGB's model seems to be - Cash upfront to be shown offerings, limit offerings, run offerings at a subsidized loss for the fortunate few, ?more people sign up?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
@BobinCH, I think the SCGB ILG service is probably a great one if it's available in the resort you are going to, at the time you are going and enough people show up to allow it to happen. Happy days if you meet all those criteria. I'm not sure why it needs to run at a (general membership subsidised) loss however other than a "we'll get (even) lower uptake if we actually charge the true marginal cost" reasoning. If it couldn't sustain itself PAYG how is it a benefit across the whole population?
Business models tend to be - aggregate demand, get better rates, more people sign up virtuous circle type things.
SCGB's model seems to be - Cash upfront to be shown offerings, limit offerings, run offerings at a subsidized loss for the fortunate few, ?more people sign up? |
Yes, exactly. They are 'for the few not the many', to borrow a Labour party strapline in reverse, and people can see through it. Just got my BMC membership renewal and I don't begrudge a single penny of the £39.95 because they are there for everyone, even non-members.
So this thread is about to celebrate its first birthday and have any lessons been learned? On the face of it, no, still bashing away at the same old drum with the same old mediocre 'benefits' and not addressing the issue of part or full reimbursement of membership subs due to the non season. Surely, if ever there was a wake up call, it happened a year ago with the departure of the CEO and before that even with the admission of the financial situation. A full rethink was needed and they had the luxury of 12 months or more, but it's the same old, same old offering. Doomed I tells ya.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This is an interesting thread for a number of reasons. Firstly I think there is a lot of insight - much impressive commentary, so much more useful than the compulsory sycophantic comments demanded on facebook. There is a real need to wake up and smell the coffee if the Club is going to turn around, and that is simply not happening. eg Just read the thread on Facebook (the closed Council thread) justifying keeping Freshtracks in house rather than outsourcing. It may be the right thing to do, but the analysis is so predictable - protecting what once made sense, no understanding of the challenges and opportunity, no willingness to be bold, no vision ... and no-one brave enough to tell Council to get a grip ... the end point is at least £1m of dead overhead supporting a loss making holiday company. Why? How does that serve members so much better than outsourcing holidays to the Club's design? My own view is that this is the route cause of Council's inability to grasp the challenge of a C21 club effectively. It is a club that should be putting members first, instead it is closed, protective and puts HQ first, backward looking not forward. A £6m business run at a big loss by a Board of largely inexperienced volunteers, who love the club, or/and like the prestige of being 'on Council' - without being able to rise to the challenge through lack of time or experience. The world has changed, but we still want a great ski club - that's a solvable challenge. I am also interested in the fact that so many here are happy to comment, mostly constructively - perhaps like me we hope that the Club will return to greatness ...
then the final interest, why is snowheads not morphing into the great British ski club wanted by so many? Or perhaps it is not the right vehicle - if not SCGB or snowheads what is? Or is there no place for a members meet up and ski club like the Ski Club of Great Britain used to be?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I tend not to comment on the general machinations of Ze Klub for all sorts of reasons. But in relation to the comments you made specifically regarding snowHeads.
| pisteoff wrote: |
| I am also interested in the fact that so many here are happy to comment, mostly constructively - perhaps like me we hope that the Club will return to greatness ... |
snowHeads is populated by people who are passionate about skiing so naturally some of those will be current, past or once-almost members of the SCGB. Being, by definition an open forum, it's only natural that we will get opinions about the SCGB - frankly, the SCGB might have serious cause for concern about its relevance and standing were it not to crop up in discussion on a constantly active forum, dedicated to snowSports, based in the UK.
So I don't think it's surprising at all that "so many here are happy to comment" - that's what snowHeads do.
Some (well, one in particular) would have it that snowHeads is intrinsically anti-SCGB. This, when you think about it, is frankly laughable (and a tad paranoid) since any advocate of the Club, whether SCGB member, rep, councilor or executive is as capable of becoming a snowHead as any detractor (whether member, rep etc.) - and indeed many are. An individual snowHead expressing criticism doesn't make snowHeads, as a whole, anti-SCGB any more than Gerry's continued input makes us a foul-mouthed mouthpiece for its council.
So yes, I'm sure there are many snowHeads who, like you "hope that the Club will return to greatness" but it's also fair to suggest that there will be just as many who are entirely ambivalent toward it. Although in our early days, there was hardly a snowHead who was not acutely aware of the SCGB, these days, many have no idea who or what they are or what they stand for.
| Quote: |
| then the final interest, why is snowheads not morphing into the great British ski club wanted by so many? |
Why?
snowHeads, I think, has established itself over the years as being quite good at being snowHeads
OK, the community began as a part of the SCGB, but a part that its organisers didn't want, despite some members feeling passionately about it. It was the aspect that drew me to the SCGB and persuaded me to join, thinking the forum community was representative of the club itself. When it was suddenly 'discontinued' my motivation was simply to try to reconnect with the people I'd lost contact with. Having (with some luck) done so, I simply tried to recreate that thing I valued that had been taken from me. I had no interest in mimicking other aspects of the SCGB... what would be the point? Why would I presume to be able to do anything better than them, given they've been in the game for a century and I'm literally no more than a punter skier, most of whose knowledge had come directly from their forum over the past 2 seasons. Seriously, it wouldn't have occured to me to set up a forum if they hadn't closed theirs - again, what would be the point? For a start, I had no idea how to and besides, I was having great fun on theirs 
So here we are, all these years later....
The forum is still buzzing, even this year when most of us were denied the opportunity to indulge in our passion. Questions get asked by total newcomers and answered in detail, in triplicate, in minutes sometimes, certainly faster than the questioner ever imagined.
Every Winter, more snowHeads meet up and ski with each other, travel with each other, form good, lasting friendships... or better! Last season I had the pleasure of skiing with a snowHead who was conceived on a snowHeads bash, 12 years previously
I was told just this week by someone, that neither he nor his friend would be skiing any longer without snowHeads.
snowHeads are selling off their old (sometimes not so old) kit to each other, tipping each other off about sales and bargains or about skiing in the media and letting each other know about conditions and opportunities.
Most of the features and functionality of snowHeads have developed directly from what the forum community wanted/needed or has simply done for themselves.
In so much as a club is a group of people with a shared interest coming together regularly to aid and enable each other to pursue that interest better... what about snowHeads, do you think is lacking as 'a great British Ski Club'? (OK well we don't exclude foreigners but ' A Great Ski Club')
Should we have more Committees? Reps? Reports? WristBands? Politics? Hierarchy? Fees? Faecebook groups?
I infer that there is stuff, that you think the SCGB is not doing well, that you think snowHeads should be doing better?
| Quote: |
Or perhaps it is not the right vehicle - if not SCGB or snowheads what is? Or is there no place for a members meet up and ski club like the Ski Club of Great Britain used to be?
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Is that not the crux of the ongoing issue?
What it used to be is not what it is/can be/needs to be?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| admin wrote: |
...Should we have more Committees? Reps? Reports? WristBands? Politics? Hierarchy? Fees? Faecebook groups?...
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Gawd, NO! 
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Indeed Gawd No! to most of that - we can all see the Ski Club problem in all that.
However the clubiness we miss is the ability to meet and ski with other club members, across Europe, places new and old - turn up in a resort, join a group, be led or lead to share the mountain, perhaps find new places ... OK I and many who comment here are at an advantage as 6+ week a year skiers, we have others to ski with and know places - which I guess underlines my thought as to where a club can play a role. For the one or two weeks a year skier, looking to grow, find fresh places, experience new etc - a club with a resort presence makes all the difference.
I think maybe this can be filled with a good app and plenty of outreach. Lots of people offer a resort app - the resorts, holiday companies and now even the ski club ... but do they go to the core of enabling 'meet up and ski'? I'm not optimistic about the SCGB app because it has all the trappings of a closed, inward looking 'club' (pay £70 to subsidise HQ or I'm not interested in you), and the ridiculous knot they have got into on 'reps' and leading - but perhaps it will grow to fill this gap.
Like many I do think snowheads has done something brilliant, and as you say has a very lively and engaged forum and excellent bashes - sadly its just not in resort at other times.
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| pisteoff wrote: |
Like many I do think snowheads has done something brilliant, and as you say has a very lively and engaged forum and excellent bashes - sadly its just not in resort at other times. |
Well it kind of is. I found that as I got to know people on the forum, I could chat, sometimes by private messaging, and I (we I the days when my regular ski buddy was alive) would find others to meet up with for evening drinks and perhaps ski with at a resort. When I needed to improve my skiing on steep slopes I contacted an instructor who was a regular here. Yes she did take me back to basics - and she was one of the best instructors I have had -and she remains a friend. The first off-piste bash wasn't an off piste bash, it was me asking if there was anybody who wanted to come out with me, get a guide and have some fun. A group formed as eases wink and we had a ball. Then I realised it was quite a thing to do, particularly if the numbers rose, admin kindly agreed to step in, and the rest is history. These days I ski in one resort, ski on piste, but still meet up and ski with friends. That is no longer done via snowHeads, but the network came together for me because of snowHeads.
I think it did help early on to go to one of the sH ski-tests/get-togethers at an indoor slope. It help me get a real feel what snowHeads really could be, gain friends - and a pair of skis!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@achilles, I think this is an important point. I don't NEED to meet up with someone to ski on-piste. Indeed if Ms On the rocks decides to take a rest day I'm quite happy to blast around seeing how much vertical I can ski in the day. For off-piste things are very different and simply being aware of someone's SCGB colour coding is not really enough to be sure of an enjoyable and safe day on the mountain. A network of good peers to ski with off-piste is very important, as with my other pursuits rock climbing and sea kayaking where the combination of technical ability, safety awareness and craic are equally important. I used to have some great days skiing with my climbing mates, and hope to again next year although the pool has been severely diminished by other distractions.
The Bashes do seem to be a very good way to facilitate this sort of networking, and now that my work/life balance has tipped in the right direction I'm looking forward to my first in many years, now having the freedom to book well in advance before they get sold out. However there are at present only two OP bashes both late in the season - so my hopefully new network may not be any use to me until 2023! Now if Admin could facilitate an Early Season Off Piste Bash (ESOPiB?) - no pressure
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 30-03-21 10:23; edited 2 times in total
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| pisteoff wrote: |
Indeed Gawd No! to most of that - we can all see the Ski Club problem in all that.
However the clubiness we miss is the ability to meet and ski with other club members, across Europe, places new and old - turn up in a resort, join a group, be led or lead to share the mountain, perhaps find new places ... OK I and many who comment here are at an advantage as 6+ week a year skiers, we have others to ski with and know places - which I guess underlines my thought as to where a club can play a role. For the one or two weeks a year skier, looking to grow, find fresh places, experience new etc - a club with a resort presence makes all the difference.
I think maybe this can be filled with a good app and plenty of outreach. Lots of people offer a resort app - the resorts, holiday companies and now even the ski club ... but do they go to the core of enabling 'meet up and ski'? I'm not optimistic about the SCGB app because it has all the trappings of a closed, inward looking 'club' (pay £70 to subsidise HQ or I'm not interested in you), and the ridiculous knot they have got into on 'reps' and leading - but perhaps it will grow to fill this gap.
Like many I do think snowheads has done something brilliant, and as you say has a very lively and engaged forum and excellent bashes - sadly its just not in resort at other times. |
Realistically if you were inventing SCGB today you'd make it mobile first/app based and free-to-play at a basic level. For that members would get peer to peer networking of some kind, a plug into individual resort APIs for lift maps, snow reports etc and some kind of diary function where you could see who would be in "your" resort at the time you were there. Tinder for skiers if you like. Then you might start layering on modest fees for "premium" content, like insurance deals or negotiated reduced price lessons or guiding. You'd make most of your money on backend commission/push advertising for the desirable demographic you'd captured in your app, in time this might turn into TO run holidays etc etc.
Now that isn't vastly unlike snowheads but snowheads is almost entirely what the members (& its benign dictator) make it. If you are going to be in a resort and up for some social skiing or apres ping up a thread - liklihood you'll get some overlap with others or at the very least some useful intel on current conditions or travel tips. It's not in anyone's interests to make snowheads plc a permanent presence in any resort because that's where you create overhead and the gravy train, although there will be members resident in many resorts for much if not all of the season at their own cost.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@On the rocks, I get what you are saying. However, when I gave up off-piste skiing I thought that my skiing days were over. It was admin who suggested I could still enjoy being with friends, and enjoying spectacular mountains even if I stuck to on piste skiing. I came out on a birthday bash and found out that, funny old thing, he was right. So Snowheads still had an affect on my skiing / and though I haven’t been on bashes for a while, the background of Snowheads is still there.
So getting back to your point, an on piste skier does not need Snowheads, but can still find Snowheads adds to their enjoyment.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| ... Realistically if you were inventing SCGB today you'd make it mobile first/app based and free-to-play at a basic level. For that members would get peer to peer networking of some kind, a plug into individual resort APIs for lift maps, snow reports etc and some kind of diary function where you could see who would be in "your" resort at the time you were there. Tinder for skiers if you like. Then you might start layering on modest fees for "premium" content, like insurance deals or negotiated reduced price lessons or guiding. You'd make most of your money on backend commission/push advertising for the desirable demographic you'd captured in your app, in time this might turn into TO run holidays etc etc. ... |
I think there would still be plenty of people prepared to pay something even for the basic level. Those I know who were (perhaps still are?) SCGB members just wanted to meet up with others of a similar level for on-piste skiing. Often partners ski at different levels, or perhaps one is in lessons, so in larger resorts there could be plenty of demand. If you have a couple where one likes to ski blacks but the other only blues, then meeting up with similar couples in resort, splitting into ability groups and perhaps agreeing a lunch stop, can enhance everyone's day. No need for instructors, guides etc - just mutual social skiing. Exactly what a "club" should be.
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@ecureuil, Precisely Ski Tinder.
Swipe left if they aren't up to your purple grade standards or are a ghastly snowboarder, swipe right if they look like they know which end of a probe is up etc etc.
SCGB should have an advantage in that for matchmaking purposes given their presumably large database of people they've already pre-graded. Although I guess GDPR could be an issue to navigate.
Heck even as a sworn enemy of SCGB (or at least that would be the Council Member and all-round charmer @gerry's view of me) I'd probably splash £10 on a casual ski hook-up app if it was actually populated with people I might want to ski with.
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You know it makes sense.
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I'd probably splash £10 on a casual ski hook-up app if it was actually populated with people I might want to ski with
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What if it was called Base Grindr?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
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I'd probably splash £10 on a casual ski hook-up app if it was actually populated with people I might want to ski with
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What if it was called Base Grindr? |
That's the version for freestyle - buttering the pancake ferret and dog-nosed sandwich plants and the like
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pisteoff wrote: |
| perhaps like me we hope that the Club will return to greatness ... |
No, to be honest, I hope it folds. It was never 'great' was it? Great for reps and their freebies maybe but just about 'ok' for most members since moving out of Eaton Sq and latterly 'poor' after the demise of repping. I could go on. The way it has been run certainly makes me think that the current board and management, despite the funds they have had at their disposal, cannot save it. Lack of imagination, zero enthusiasm, a disinterested skiing public, diminishing returns. Sorry, it's doomed. Starting afresh with a whole new concept is a better use of energy and money. That is of course, if a club is needed at all in the 2020s. I have my doubts.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think the key thing for reps, council, members etc to all appreciate is you are never going to get rep guiding back legally. Now what do you do in such a circumstance - think you can magic away laws and enforcement therefore with a bit of backbone or think like the Ubers and Air Bnbs of what you can be instead - a branded intermediary with purely independent and non remunerated individuals doing teh clubbiness stuff. Think big enough and you could have a network in every place with snow in the world - Ski Tinder of the Globe - all from your little platform. You might even get VCs having a nibble.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Dave of the Marmottes, VCs? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Not Victoria Crosses. Venture Capitalists.
Seed capital from your existing members fundswith equal shares, get one of your bright young numerous student members* to bosh up a demo concept and take it to the big boys. Elevator pitch : Tinder for skiing.
* ah beginning to see the flaw
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ski Club were struggling for relevance 20 years ago and nothing's changed.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| Ski Club were struggling for relevance 20 years ago and nothing's changed. |
That's a bit unfair. They are highly relevant to a pool of people. Just that pool is shrinking rapidly and there's nothing sexy to tempt them or anyone else back in the water. Until they recognise that , new GM or not to be a scapegoat, they are in deckchairs on the Titanic mode.
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That's a bit unfair.
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Ok, from the archive, I wrote back in 2013...
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No particular jibe at the club per se, just a general observation that clubs with the kind of model that they use have lost membership, particularly since the advent of the internet. Clubs of many kinds are becoming a bit of an anachronism in this day and age - the local motorsport club I belong to, for example, used to have membership of around 1000 members at its height, now membership hovers around 150 people, and is one of the larger clubs still going.
The question is what benefit to they deliver to their members that they can't get elsewhere - I can't see what being a member of the SCGB would offer me as a once or twice a year recreational snowboarder with 2 kids and skiing wife. All the info I need I find here (or on other forums, sorry SH, i've been seeing someone else on the side Shocked ) The discounts offered on SCGB don't really apply for the things i'm looking for or need. |
Now I'm still a member of that motor club, because to compete in events, I have to be a member of a UK MSA registered Motorclub, and I may as well stay with them. Membership is about the same for them with the majority of members being silent - just using the club as a gateway into MSA regulated events. Clubs need a reason to exist or they fade away - 8 years later and nothings changed for the better for them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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They are highly relevant to a pool of people. Just that pool is shrinking rapidly
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Yes. And the relevance to that pool is diminishing. eg I posted an upbeat Facebook message encouraging people to share why they thought others should join the club / stay a member. It is shocking how many, including Council members and the GM, argued that you should be a member out of loyalty, giving no other good reason. My perspective on this: I think people can see I have been very loyal to the club and volunteered more than most, made a difference on the CEO/Chairman/catastrophic losses issue at least. I don't need to be guilt loyalty tripped into being a member, and that can only work for an ever decreasing number - We (that diminishing pool) all want a club that is committed to delivering value to members - of course the Club can offer more value than it costs, it has so much to build from.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
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That's a bit unfair.
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Ok, from the archive, I wrote back in 2013...
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No particular jibe at the club per se, just a general observation that clubs with the kind of model that they use have lost membership, particularly since the advent of the internet. Clubs of many kinds are becoming a bit of an anachronism in this day and age - the local motorsport club I belong to, for example, used to have membership of around 1000 members at its height, now membership hovers around 150 people, and is one of the larger clubs still going.
The question is what benefit to they deliver to their members that they can't get elsewhere - I can't see what being a member of the SCGB would offer me as a once or twice a year recreational snowboarder with 2 kids and skiing wife. All the info I need I find here (or on other forums, sorry SH, i've been seeing someone else on the side Shocked ) The discounts offered on SCGB don't really apply for the things i'm looking for or need. |
Now I'm still a member of that motor club, because to compete in events, I have to be a member of a UK MSA registered Motorclub, and I may as well stay with them. Membership is about the same for them with the majority of members being silent - just using the club as a gateway into MSA regulated events. Clubs need a reason to exist or they fade away - 8 years later and nothings changed for the better for them. |
Sure - it would be really useful to plot (inflation adjusted/active member adjusted) membership revenues vs global use of social media/forum platforms. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some negative correlation (apart from the dead members or those who had forgotten they had a DD)
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FAQ
