 Poster: A snowHead
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Don't panic, Don't panic !!!!! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ok folks don't panic,nice reactions. Snow will come 2nd week December.
I don't know how much but it will look white again.
Over here in Colorado its Thanksgiving & Dumping! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Probably all the turkey.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| stanton wrote: |
| Over here in Colorado its Thanksgiving & Dumping! |
Excellent - what about some photos?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The BBC weather forecast map showed ALOT of white over Scotland this morning. We can all relax - Scottish snow is always rubbish - the rest of Europe will be drowned in the stuff before Scotland gets any!! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, he's got to find some on the internet first - give the poor idiot a chance 
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Samerberg Sue,
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| paulio wrote: |
| Probably all the turkey. |
hahaha, to subtle for the USA.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Now we are in Dec and still not enough snow to start the season in the Alps do the SH still think the OP prediction pessimistic?
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saikee, do you think it was realistic?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think the term "write off" can be of different meaning to different persons.
As a holiday skier I don't think much of a write off in a bad year as long as there are a few runs to play with even though the holiday isn't as enjoyable and the money not well spent.
However for those who work in the ski industry losing say 15 to 25% of the skiing days or income can break the back of a company. If the employer can't sustain the hit then those employees could lose their jobs and the write off could be real.
Thus those whose income or livelihood depends on snow may regard the lack of it a lot worse than those who just go there to play.
In my 12 -13 years skiing experience my view is the industry has been on a downhill slope all the time and it doesn't take much doing to knock off a few more companies, chalet owners, resort operators, restaurants and on-resort shops.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sat 3-12-11 18:15; edited 1 time in total
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| saikee wrote: |
| Now we are in Dec and still not enough snow to start the season in the Alps do the SH still think the OP prediction pessimistic? |
its snowing right now in areas of the alps.
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You know it makes sense.
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Snowing at the minute with temperatures dropping, cannons will be on all the rest of this weekend and next week with more snow forecast.
Offpiste will be crap but quite a lot of runs in the medium to high resorts could be open next weekend.
Long range has some more fronts moving in, even low resorts like Les Gets are confident of opening on the 17th which is the usual opening time for them one week back from Christmas, if there is really heavy snow the week leading up to opening Christmas week will be good.
It's not all doom and gloom, far from it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| saikee wrote: |
| I think the term "write off" can be of different meaning to different persons. |
Agreed. Last season was the worst in many parts of Europe for a very long time. Despite this I had a brilliant time, with my season stretching from September to June. Writing off a season one week before the end of November is just a bit silly. Suppose it gave us something to get our teeth in to while we waited for the winter to start, so maybe that's not a bad thing.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I have two weeks off in the middle of Jan, nothing booked yet.
Hoping the snow arrives, but might have to look at winter-sun instead....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Hoping the snow arrives, but might have to look at winter-sun instead....
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A joke, surely? You don't really think you won't be able to ski somewhere then, do you? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| saikee wrote: |
I think the term "write off" can be of different meaning to different persons.
As a holiday skier I don't think much of a write off in a bad year as long as there are a few runs to play with even though the holiday isn't as enjoyable and the money not well spent.
However for those who work in the ski industry losing say 15 to 25% of the skiing days or income can break the back of a company. If the employer can't sustain the hit then those employees could lose their jobs and the write off could be real.
Thus those whose income or livelihood depends on snow may regard the lack of it a lot worse than those who just go there to play.
In my 12 -13 years skiing experience my view is the industry has been on a downhill slope all the time and it doesn't take much doing to knock off a few more companies, chalet owners, resort operators, restaurants and on-resort shops. |
I don't agree. I rent out an apartment in Val Thorens and I refused to accept rentals before 10th December just because of the risk of no snow. I think VT is only normally about 1/4 full anyway until xmas week normally anyway. Lack of snow this side of christmas won't have much effect on holiday companies. As long as there is some snow by 17th then it won't be any different to any other year.
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cran
cran
Guest
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| Quote: |
| I refused to accept rentals before 10th December just because of the risk of no snow |
Why would you do that?
They will just book somewhere else anyway, so you might as well have the bookings...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| emwmarine wrote: |
I don't agree. I rent out an apartment in Val Thorens and I refused to accept rentals before 10th December just because of the risk of no snow. I think VT is only normally about 1/4 full anyway until xmas week normally anyway. Lack of snow this side of christmas won't have much effect on holiday companies. As long as there is some snow by 17th then it won't be any different to any other year. |
This season is very different.
For Hotels, Restaurants,Shops it is critical to have a busy Peak Xmas/New Year period revenues. They have hired staff & stocked shops.
I agree the 17th is critical.
Last year Xmas Holiday bookings were down on previous years (Austria) because of the credit crisis
With continuing economic worry Family's with children are not going to waste there savings if there is little or no skiing especially when the Hotels & Lift company's are not discounting for lack of terrain.
The situation is all over the news in Germany & The Netherlands.
Unless there is firm base of 0.5-1M on high ground by 17th holiday period cancellations will be in there 1000's.
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I don't quite understand the comment about cancellations. If you have paid for your flights and accommodation you will not get a refund at this stage. Would you really cancel and stay at home and waste that money instead of at least going away with the family. Ok if there is no snow you will not be buying s lift ticket or hire skis but to stay at home..... If you are driving then I can understand a bit more as it is only the accommodation you are wasting
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| chrisb wrote: |
| I don't quite understand the comment about cancellations. If you have paid for your flights and accommodation you will not get a refund at this stage. |
there are a lot more than UK skiers heading to the Alps and many will just have 10-20% on the hotel or apartment. Better that than losing a week's holiday.
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| chrisb wrote: |
| I don't quite understand the comment about cancellations. If you have paid for your flights and accommodation you will not get a refund at this stage. Would you really cancel and stay at home and waste that money instead of at least going away with the family. Ok if there is no snow you will not be buying s lift ticket or hire skis but to stay at home..... If you are driving then I can understand a bit more as it is only the accommodation you are wasting |
Maybe the British do not cancel but I dont think your in the majority of wintersporters in Austria or Switzerland.
In Austria, the Germans make up over 50% of the market.
Germans, Dutch, Danish (for example) DIY & just drive or jump on the train. If there is any deposit ( 1day) ok its lost but its not that normal to pay anything in advance. We just call the accomodation and cancel.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've been looking to go last minute in early Jan, may be looking at the US at this rate.
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In 1934 (!) Kitzbuhel town council decided they couldn't advertise winter sports hoildays until January as the snow wasn't reliable until after Xmas...
My, how things have changed...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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A few years back, mid 80's, we had a BBQ on Dec 29 on the warm green slopes at Le Pleney, Morzine. Had to go to Avoriaz to ski. 2 days later and there was lots of snow on the ground and temps down at -C and we had an excellent New Year.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
there are a lot more than UK skiers heading to the Alps and many will just have 10-20% on the hotel or apartment
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Really? We ask for the balance of the rental cost of our apartment to be paid 8 weeks before the trip (like Thomsons and Crystal etc).
I wonder if many apartment owners do otherwise....
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| Quote: |
In 1934 (!) Kitzbuhel town council decided they couldn't advertise winter sports hoildays until January as the snow wasn't reliable until after Xmas...
My, how things have changed...
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A very good point. There are a number of threads under way with people shocked and disappointed that holidays booked months ago for early December don't look like being very snowy! Even one school trip, booked for w/b 10 December.
Christmas is only as busy as it is because it's Christmas; early season snow is a gamble and a few people saying "we were there in mid December last year and the snow was great" doesn't change that. There have been quite a few years very recently with decent snow in December, but for most places it's not the norm.
To talk in November about the season being a write-off is just senseless.
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Christmas is only as busy as it is because it's Christmas; early season snow is a gamble and a few people saying "we were there in mid December last year and the snow was great" doesn't change that. There have been quite a few years very recently with decent snow in December, but for most places it's not the norm. |
I've skied a lot early season (late November, early/mid December) and always had enough snow for good skiing. I've gone high and never expected much in the way of off-piste, and with those caveats have always been delighted to be skiing that early. Depends on what kind of skiing you expect, and it's perhaps foolish to want it to be the same experience as mid-season, but I don't think it's a stupid gamble to take. Obviously no guarantees, as this season in Europe is proving, but you can say that for any time of the season.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
I don't think it's a stupid gamble to take
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Thing is, it's an unnecessary gamble to take - there's no pressure on accommodation in mid December and the sensible approach is either to go high, or to wait till the last minute (or both). People are perhaps sucked in by daft TO promotions (they were talking about fantastic snow a few weeks ago, weren't they?) and cheap prices. The cheap prices are for a reason!
If it's something like a school trip, which has to be booked and paid for months in advance, then actually I do think a trip on 10 December to an ordinary-altitude resort is a bit of a foolish gamble.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
I don't think it's a stupid gamble to take
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Thing is, it's an unnecessary gamble to take |
Maybe, but for many people booking a week off work needs to be done in advance, sometimes a long time in advance. There might also be a good reason why you want to be away that week (to do a ski course, meet up with 119 friends, etc). So plenty of reasons why you might want or need to commit in advance. Under those circumstances, and with the right level of expectation of what it might be like, I still don't think it's a major gamble.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In this thread: people who spend their entire lives in the Alps openly mock people who can only afford to holiday there.
e.g. ME.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It seems many SH think if it snows then skiing is on.
I rather think it takes at least a metre of snow compacted (grooming and used by other skiers) to at a minimum of 0.3m thickness and with over 90% of the lifts operational before the sport is enjoyable.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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All snow is enjoyable. If 90% of the lifts are open, then it's a bonus. Sure I like to get about the mountain, but in what is essentially pre-season, that's unlikely in many places. I'll do that on the next trip. And the one after. I'm not gonna wait till mid-season until the lift count reaches a near 100% threshold.
OMG there's no snow! Just had 7 whole days skiing on some white stuff half way up an Alp. Even left some fresh tracks. Must have been white grass or fairy dust or something  . Enjoyed every minute of it, even if only 3 T-Bars, 2 Chairs, and a Cable Car was open.
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saikee, did we not have those conditions on the Town Moor last year
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chrisb,
Yes we did. It was in front of my office and home too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
I rather think it takes at least a metre of snow compacted (grooming and used by other skiers) to at a minimum of 0.3m thickness
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Although what counts as an enjoyable snow depth is going to depend mostly on the skier (and I tend towards the 'all snow is good snow, all skis are rock skis' end of the spectrum), it does depend on the terrain as well. An over-generalisation that I still find useful is that many Austrian runs are on a smooth, grassy surface which doesn't need much snow depth at all, whereas French resorts are typically on rockier surfaces, which need more snow depth to cover the rocks. Scottsh slopes tend to have a nice forgiving base of heather with maybe some cosmetic white stuff on top...
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| paulio wrote: |
In this thread: people who spend their entire lives in the Alps openly mock people who can only afford to holiday there.
e.g. ME. |
It's not just about affording to live in the alps, it's about making the choice and doing it. Many people could up sticks and move if they really wanted but many think they can't. I work as a freelancer and have done for 20+ years in the UK, the number of permie staff I work with that envy the freelance lifestyle BUT will not make the switch, not because they don't posses the skills and experience but are worried about change, and the false sense of lack of job security.These are quite often young people with no kids and mortgages. So if folks will not even change their jobs within the UK no wonder many will not up sticks and try a different lifestyle. I known it's not always easy depending on your profession, family, financial situation, career aspirations, spending habits, but for quite a few people it is possible, just takes some will power. And of course not everyone wants to live in the alps but enjoy their annual skil trips abroad, nothing wrong with that.
Back on topic. OMG! where's the bloody snow? A dusting yesterday, more forecast from this afternoon onwards. This better be a decent dump, I've been working non-stop for days to free up some time for playing in the pow.
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FAQ
