Drove a 4WD Subaru Legacy for the last few seasons and drove in snowy conditions with pretty much every combination of tyres. Started the season on the standard summer tyres and had no traction in the snow. Changed to a set of Michellin Snow and ice tyres and the difference all round was superb. Traction and drive under acceleration was greatly improved and on a solidly white road the car handled almost as confidently as on clean tarmac. I ran the tyres into summer and found them ok but could feel the handling slightly more floaty than previously, especially at higher speeds. I suppose this is the blocks moving around a lot more on the tyres.
Toward the end of summer a puncture in both the rear tyres caused me to replace them with the original summer ones. I felt not too much difference in clean conditions but then when the snow arrived the handling was drastically different. Under braking in snow the front tyres were gripping, and slowing, but the rear had less grip and wanted to overtake the front, thus the car was squirelly under braking. Then when putting the power down round corners the back end was loose and wanted to swing out. Although incredibly fun once you can play with sliding the car when it steps out so easily, its not the ideal way to set it up.
So 2 snow tyres on 2 driving wheels will get you where you need to go but drastically altered the handling and predictability of my car.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Boredsurfing, much colder up here than in Shandyland for the rest of the winter too, and it's not just the snow as already metioned above. My M&S tyres have been fine up to now, no complaints on their handling in the snow, and boy did I give them a good test on the Col du Lauteret when hubby was in Grenoble hospital . BUT these new ones may be a different kettle of frozen fish.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hells Bells, The Merc is 4 years old and only had wintertyres put on it last year never had any problems. It does have a very good 4 wheel drive system (and a fairly experienced winter driver) as does the X trail. I reckon you will be OK.
Col du Lauteret is a French pass, between Seere Chevalier and Bourg D'Osian, that get close if the snow clearing equipment has not enough time to react to a big dump. It cannot be compared with road condition in UK.
Whoever wanting to drive through an European mountain pass in winter has to be prepared to cope with everything white and the edge of a road is just the colour poles that stick out. That is the time you will find how much a snow tyre really worth to you.
Drivers with 4x4 and snow tyres are not invincible as every vehicle will get bog down eventually when the weather turns really nasty. With the right equipment one gets bog down hopefully the among last by monitoring the fellow motorists' situations.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Boredsurfing wrote:
I'll probably get a stoning for being a heretic, but I only see having wintertyres as saving the bother of putting chains on
For the average holidaymaker not living in a snowy place all winter etc etc (Bit like telepeage really)
And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy wintertyres, which brought thee out of the land of the Alps, from the place of snow covered roads.
Seriously, there were several days last year in the UK when I wouldn't have been without my wintertyres.
if I were a one-week a year drive to the French Alps person, I'd probably share Boredsurfing's heretical views - have snow chains, put them on efficiently at the first sign of trouble. I'd guess that the majority of Brits driving down to the alps don't have wintertyres (and then don't have any ski lessons when they get there, either, the mad reckless fools). Nor do they spend a fortune on getting their boots right. And some even wear cotton sweatshirts.
They probably have fun, though.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
You've probably never needed your airbags either but is that any reason not to have them?
Ice is where wintertyres really excel (see the end of this youtube clip)
If you come over with anything but wintertyres take care.
After all it is free
After all it is free
DB, I think you're missing the point a bit here. Nobody is disputing the fact that wintertyres are better in winter conditions. I have four (and my spare is a winter tyre too). Drivers in the UK have become more aware of the advantages, with the last few snowy winters. Things are changing, which is good. but they are still a minority purchase. Drivers have to make their own decisions about the balance of safety - we all make them, all the time. For the thousands who hurtle down the French motorways to the Alps, then leave their cars in a car park (or a snowdrift) for their one week's skiing, deciding to take it a bit easier, to take breaks a bit more often, to secure their luggage so that it doesn't turn into lethal weapons in the event of a crash and to leave much more space between themselves and the car in front are probably equally - or maybe more - important decisions than whether to buy wintertyres.
The widespread use of wintertyres in much of continental Europe doesn't appear to have solved all the problems, by any means. Austrian roads, IIRC, remain more dangerous than British ones.
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We didn't put wintertyres on any of our cars until we spent more than two weeks at a time at our chalet - in retrospect OH now says that if he knew then etc etc but we used to have a AWD Subaru Legacy and sometimes with that we would have to put chains on just for such small silly distances - up our own bit of road and drive that they were a real pain. Since we have had wintertyres on first a Freelander (4WD) and now a Berlingo (just FWD) we have never had to get the chains out and have definitely been in some situations where we would have had to do so without the wintertyres. My OH reckons that over the course of three years the two sets of tyres work out about the same - Vredrestein (sp?) seem to do the job nicely and the garage down the road here sticks them on in November and takes off in April and the other set just sit in our garage.
If, and that's a big if, I ever have another new car myself then I will probably get two sets, even for poddling round locally here in Sussex - we have a pretty steep drive that no-one could get up last winter - except us - for a few days.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
pam w wrote:
The widespread use of wintertyres in much of continental Europe doesn't appear to have solved all the problems, by any means. Austrian roads, IIRC, remain more dangerous than British ones.
Sure but that's because most of the country (unlike the UK or France) is covered with mountains and 300+ ski resorts. Many crashes are caused by foreigners (mainly east block) still using summer tyres during winter - hence the reason the law was changed in the last few years to combat this.
The ground also remains frozen here for a much longer period than in England (months rather than hours or days). Bearing in mind virtually all cars in Austria will have wintertyres you really will be at a performance disadvantage. If that curve in the ice rink was a mountain with a steep drop down the valley I'd only want to have wintertyres on. Sometimes the road is clear but then the curve is all ice - by the time you are in the curve you don't have the option of putting chains on. I'm just putting up the clips so people can see the differences and then decide.
Here's another: Wintertyres make much more difference than 4WD ......
I would not say Austrian roads are more dangerous than the British roads. The danger comes from the British treating Austrain roads no different from the British roads.
A road is a dead object. It is up to the human to use the right equipment for tackling the situation.
When we ski we use the right equipment. When we go to the resort many of us don't use the right equipment, take chance and live with the consequence.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Boredsurfing wrote:
Hells Bells, The Merc is 4 years old and only had wintertyres put on it last year never had any problems. It does have a very good 4 wheel drive system .
I didn't realise you'd bought a G-Wagon.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
saikee wrote:
I would not say Austrian roads are more dangerous than the British roads. The danger comes from the British treating Austrain roads no different from the British roads.
A road is a dead object. It is up to the human to use the right equipment for tackling the situation.
When we ski we use the right equipment. When we go to the resort many of us don't use the right equipment, take chance and live with the consequence.
Not just the British, in fact the worst/mopst dangerous driving I've seen on Austrian roads came from German cars...
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Sitter wrote:
Not just the British, in fact the worst/mopst dangerous driving I've seen on Austrian roads came from German cars...
driven by Belgians.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Spyderman, worst on the French roads too.
And I haven't really solved my problem yet.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Sitter wrote:
Not just the British, in fact the worst/mopst dangerous driving I've seen on Austrian roads came from German cars...
Not sure what the current state of affairs is but they used to get around Austrian autobahn speeding fines. Something to do with Austrian speed cameras taking a picture from behind and not from in front. The Austrians did introduce new cameras to get around this but last I heard they had problems - anyone in the know who can shed more light on this?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
DB, They caught me on the A10 from in front both times. and kooky just received a "billet doux" from the motorway police having been caught 30kmh over entering the Werfen Tunnels. The camera is on the right in the pull over just before the first tunnel heading towards Salzburg and takes pictures from the rear. I've also heard that they are installing the same infra-red cameras in some of the longer tunnels to reduce sppeding once in the tunnels. These are now being installed in all the tunnels along the German system after a successful implementation in the A99 Aubinger Tunnel and the Richard-Strauss Tunnel on the mittlerring in Munich.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Samerberg Sue,
I heard there was a loophole for German residents as the picture had to identify the driver under German law.
I would not say Austrian roads are more dangerous than the British roads.
well, it's a manner of speaking, isn't it? the way road statistics are compiled, Austrian roads are more dangerous than most European roads - and most of the casualties are Austrian, not British. On an anecdotal note, I think the single most scary driver I ever travelled with was an Austrian post bus driver called Franzl. He was even worse driving his own car than he was driving the bus.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
DB, Both mine and kooky's cars have German plates, so I don't think it has anything to do with that. In fact I have never had a "picture" from the Austrians whereas I always have from the Germans! I would not actually believe anything written in the TZ, although it is fun to read! A bit of a red banner jobbie like the Sun or the Mirror.
They will get you whatever way they want and ASFINAG are boogers at catching people! austrian friends have also been blitzed and it is in both directions now on the A10 with 3 camera positions. Tirol is even worse I've been told, but so far never seen any or had any tickets!
Sue
Do you get speeding points on your licence in Germany/Austria? I hear a lot of people at work who seem to get done quite often. In the UK you only get 4 chances and your banned.
I find German driving standards appaling. Driving too close behind other cars, pulling out into the fast lane at the last minute and ovetaking wihout a clear view ahead are things I see most weeks around Bodensee.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I see the Austrian Plizei out at weekends around Vorarlberg. They love their hand held radar guns. Often seen in 40kph Austrian villages. Another favourite spot is on the entrance to tunnels on the Innsbruck-St Anton road, just after it goes to 80kph. First you know of it is someone jumping out with his lollypop stop sign. I have been lucky so far, but am paranoid about speed limits now. The speed limits on German roads is up and down like a whores drawers
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
austrian friends have also been blitzed and it is in both directions now on the A10 with 3 camera positions. Tirol is even worse I've been told, but so far never seen any or had any tickets!
Well when the French started really clamping down it did make a significant difference to their (not good) road death figures. One of Sarko's successes, maybe? I'm all for tough enforcement of speeding limits as long as it's fair and transparent - whereas getting off the fines was a national game in France - it depended who you knew. I think it's a bit better now.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
stevev, I have points in Flensburg but they do not get transferred to the UK licensing authority. I'm pushing my luck here driving on an out of date UK photo license. But as the German ones do not run out they have not yet noticed. When they do I'll switch to a German one (it is a straight swop and costs about 30 Euro all in all).
I find the German standard of driving OK once you drive aware of their style. I know what most will do. It's the Swiss, Austrians, Dutch and East Europeans that drive me crazy. Most are crazy with their speeds and pulling out and loads not on wintertyres (although that is decreasing in frequency these days). The Germans are fairly predictable to be honest; anything other than a BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Golf drive normally. Beemers and Audi drivers seem to think they have divine right of passage, Mercs just set cruise control and royally progress. Boy racers of any age in any old Golf are a PITA any time
Don't get me started on Brits in overloaded cars who think there are no speed limits!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Sue, Oh right, I assumed you had a German licence.
The latest craze around here is villages with 30kph speed limits, Lärmschutz, I can understand it overnight maybe, but there is one on the way to work that operates 24hr per day
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Samerberg Sue wrote:
DB, Both mine and kooky's cars have German plates, so I don't think it has anything to do with that. In fact I have never had a "picture" from the Austrians whereas I always have from the Germans! I would not actually believe anything written in the TZ, although it is fun to read! A bit of a red banner jobbie like the Sun or the Mirror.
They will get you whatever way they want and ASFINAG are boogers at catching people! austrian friends have also been blitzed and it is in both directions now on the A10 with 3 camera positions. Tirol is even worse I've been told, but so far never seen any or had any tickets!
I've seen it in other more credible news sources too. Foreigners (non-Austrians) are sent the fines but some say it wasn't them driving (and say it could have been a number of people) or just refuse to say who is driving (they don't have to name the driver in Germany but Austrians do). There is or was a loophole in the law as their law requires that the driver be identified with photo evidence. The Germans send the pic of the front to identify the driver, the Austrian pic of the car's rear end doesn't stand up in a prosecution. If I find any other links I'll put them up.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 23-11-11 9:37; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
pam w wrote:
Quote:
I would not say Austrian roads are more dangerous than the British roads.
well, it's a manner of speaking, isn't it? the way road statistics are compiled, Austrian roads are more dangerous than most European roads - and most of the casualties are Austrian, not British. On an anecdotal note, I think the single most scary driver I ever travelled with was an Austrian post bus driver called Franzl. He was even worse driving his own car than he was driving the bus.
I'm interested, please post the figures showing that Austrian roads are more dangerous than most.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
"I would not say Austrian roads are more dangerous than the British roads. The danger comes from the British treating Austrain roads no different from the British roads.
A road is a dead object. It is up to the human to use the right equipment for tackling the situation.
When we ski we use the right equipment. When we go to the resort many of us don't use the right equipment, take chance and live with the consequence."
I do agree with Saikee! My own experience is: After ask for winter tires at car rental and they had neglect it, I get the road out to Austria with my parents, in a car with no wt (and don't know about it). Morning 2nd day, drive in a freeze -2C day, 3cm of snow on the asphalt and make a guess in what happens? Absolute lost of control and got involved in a car crash. Fortunately nobody hurts. But I lost one entire day with police, papers, getting a second car, etc, etc.
And the worst OF ALL - MISS ONE PRECIOUS DAY OF SKI
And I also would say: It's not a matter of choice to drive Austrian roads without winter tires, since they are mandatory whole winter long.
Believe me, the second car came with wt and it's a totally different drive.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Carn't help thinking........ never have so many, been so prepared, for so little....so far
I got a set of steel rims fitted with wintertyres from Skoda ealier this year, brand new Dunlop 3D winter sport snowflake and mountain symbol, fitted, balanced and ready to go £600 all in - seemed a good deal). I haven't fitted them yet. Still been fairly warm down here not yet regularly <7C. Has anyone else in the UK fitted theirs yet?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Megamum, Mine went on the week before last - on the basis that for the last two winters I have put them on in nice mild weather, only to get snow within two weeks
Unfortunately they must be getting worn out - they are not such potent "bring the snow" charms this year
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Megamum, cracking deal.
mine are on year round
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Megamum, Got mine fitted on Saturday - on the basis that I want to check any difference to the car's handling due to the different rubber and smaller rim size before heading out end of next week. Winter ones are 215/55x16 and look a bit like balloons compared to the "rubber band" look of the summer 235/45x17s.
I've had snows on all year, replaced the fronts in October with Avon icetours (couldn't get the Vredesteins i ussually buy due to high demand). We might actually get some snow this week too.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Both summers and winters are 205/55 R16's so I've got no issues with different rim sizes - these are made and designed for my Octavia and are the 'official' skoda part for the car. I must admit I couldn't take them off their hands quick enough for that cash in March - I got them about 2 weeks before the Family bash and managed to get them fitted for that trip The only difference are that my summers are on my smart alloy rims and the winters are only on the steel ones so I've also got some sacrificial wheel trims just for the 'look' of things. I think 'Santa' has got me good quality snow chains too I might see about getting them fitted in the next couple of weeks, we drive to Austria next Feb, but I certainly feel safer driving through icy conditions in the UK with them on. Wintertyres are 'the business' when I've used them in the alps in the snow too - I'm def. a convert.
Two new Vredesteins delivered this morning - whoopee! Winter's round the corner. My two oldest snow tyres will be legal for a good few thousand miles yet - they can go back on next spring.
Megamum, Santa obviously knows you're a practical sort of person; some people (not me, I'm practical too....) would be most offended. You can laugh at the offended people who got romantic presents when you whip your new snowchains on in two minutes and drive off, leaving them floundering around in a snowdrift.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
pam w, Well I was all set to just buy a cheap set off of the internet as I had for my last car, but Santa told me that if I needed to use them in anger (which I've never had to do) that I'd appreciate having an easy to put on expensive set, so apparently that is what Santa went and organised for Christmas day. Now all I've got to do is to organise a spare bulb set so I don't need to borrow Santa's this year.
After all it is free
After all it is free
What's not romantic about snow chains as a present?
Perfume means I want you to smell nice
Jewelery/Clothes mean I want you to look nice
Snow chains mean I want you to come home to me safely
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
tafflondon, Awww......You must be a 'glass half full' person
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Santa's gettin me whiskey, with a e, the only kind
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
The only difference are that my summers are on my smart alloy rims and the winters are only on the steel ones so I've also got some sacrificial wheel trims just for the 'look' of things. I think 'Santa' has got me good quality snow chains too 