Tipping ski instructors

A snowHead

if I have the choice of going to the bar and buying my own drink or having waitress service for the same price of drink, I will tip the waitress. If I have the choice of carrying my own bags or having someone carry my bags to my hotel room for the same room price I will tip. If I have waitress service with service charge included and the service is exceptional I will tip in addition to service charge.

Where the difficulty starts for me is when I agree a 'fee' for a service and when that service is provided, then I do not feel obliged to tip. Do people tip their plumbers? who do a better than expected job, what about a polite bus driver who see you running down the street and waits for you, is this person tipped? Do you tip your night class tutor? What about chair lift attendants, some do a great job?

Most restaurants in UK have a service charge added to the bill and that has conditioned us to not having to tip so going to the States and, in reality, having to tip seems very strange. This idea that a tip is expected rather than an added bonus is again strange.

That said if I had a cheap 'fee' for something and had a good service rather than a 'cheap' service I would and have paid more than the fee, the same as Easiski experienced with one of her clients recently.

I would feel happy to buy lunch, a beer or two in the evening for an instructor, but I am very uneasy with tipping for a pre-agreed service. I would rather pay the correct amount in the first place.

I am sure some poeple tip instructors even if they have had an average service, especially beginners who do not know if their tuition is good or not.

The subtle difference with a waitress and a ski isnstructor is that a waitress is waitressing because she (in general) has to, and an instructor is instructing because he/she has chosen to as a way of life.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

rayscoops, I disagree. I will tip where the service provided has been above the average. If I get an instructor that goes through the motions, provides what it says on the tin, and doesn't inspire or amuse me then no tip will be given. This would then rise as the service provided rises above this mediam level.

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Frosty the Snowman, do your blokes on the pantechnicons get tipped?

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boredsurfin, Yes they do. But it is a hit and miss affair. 2 bloke got £50 for delivering a nice wardrobe. 4 blokes got nothing for 8 days work. We have managed to instill the thought of tips into their mindset. Do a great job, be cheerful and polite, and not only do we get a great name, but you greatly increase your chances of a tip.

Hmm rather a lot of "greatness" in that post Embarassed

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Frosty the Snowman, actually when I learned to scuba dive (3 mates to one instructor for 4 full days) we thought (and were right) that the guy was an exceptional instructor compared to others and we tipped generously; it was not an expected thing to do. In US/Canada the tipping thing seems that you must tip for the service - irrespective of the quality of service. This is what I dislike.

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After all it is free

veeeight, I would be much happier paying a good price for a good service, whereby the tip is included. I do not like tipping and similarly I do not like bartering, somewhere down the line someone is going to feel short changed. If a price is on offer and you accept it great, even after a bit of a haggle. It is not the overall amount of money I am handing over that causes me a problem, it is the way the entire system works.

I have lived in Asia most of my adult life and adopted the customs of many countries, but in the most part such customs do not impinge on the financial welfare of the people I have met. In Bali the stall owners have a price level for different nationalities (indonesians and similar asians the lowest, aussies, brits, europeans, then american/japanese) and again I have no problem with this. In Bangkok if you speak Thai you get better prices than if you do not, again this is the way it is.

Thinking about it, the problem I must have is for tipping for high end luxury goods or services in developed countries. The almost compulsory system of tipping seems as a way for employers not to pay their staff a fair days pay for a far days work. If I am paying $100 an hour for a ski lesson or $1000 dollars for a boat trip why tip? where does it all end? paying for a luxury service should mean just that = the service should consistently good and the need to tip good service would not be required.

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ssh, yip you right

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Those of you who have highlighed an issue with tipping have stated that it's the system you disagree with.

Thats great, so you have 3 choices.

1. Do as the locals do (and tip).
2. Do something about the system and change the way the service industry is paid.
3. Put your fingers in your ears and refuse to tip on the basis that you don't agree with the principle of the system.

The choice is entirely yours.

You know it makes sense.

Noting that #3 doesn't hurt the "system" at all, but will be an impact to the person who provided you the service.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

my father told me that if i can't tip the cab driver, the doorman, the hat check girl, the maitre'd, and the waitress......stay home!

there seem to be quite a few cheap f _ _ ks here trying to rationalize being niggardly. that's "folks" for those who couldn't fill in the blanks.

A snowHead

Rusty Guy, I was once in a nice Chinese restaurant in Orlando. It was my turn to pay and the bill was not inconsiderable. This was 15 years ago and the service was okay. I completed the visa slip and added 10% where there was a space for the tip. The waiter left but then returned saying in a very loud voice that I had made a mistake as the tip was usually 15%. I asked him for another slip and filled it out with no tip on and a quiet word about him being a cheeky barsteward.

We all have different cultures to tipping and this is highlighted by work that my business does in this country for US clients moving to the UK. These are usually corporate relocation and all paid for by the clients company. We deliver a container to the clients house, unload, and unpack and unwrap all the gear. We are often there for 2 days. Its not like we have opened a door, taken someones coat, or brought out a plate of food, this is graft and service in someones house with someones personal possessions. Our staff know how to give great service but as a rule of thumb the US clients do not tip. I'm not having a go at them, as I think they presume that tipping is not part of British culture.

A snowHead

I had a look at the web page that veeeight kindly made refernce to and the term 'tip' was related to an extra payment for good service to a lowly paid worker, i.e. someone who you would expect a basic service from; when they go out of their way (in a menial job) and provide a surprisingly good service then a small tip is the way to show appreciation. We all tip taxi drivers, waitresses, bell boys etc (unless they are rubbish) as a matter of course because this is how the tipping system works around the world.

The distinction I have been trying to make is that, for example, a US ski instructor, who earning $30 / hour (and the service for which one may be paying £70 /hour) is not someone carrying out a menial task. You would expect a level of service commensurate with the fee, and you will get some instructors better than others. The 'tipping' at a rate of 20% for ski instructors is actually a system of payment, not a gratuity to show appreciation. This is, as I am learning, how it works and has to be accepted, but perhaps ski schools should make things a little clearer that an additional payment of 10 - 20% is to be paid to the instructor (10% for normal service, up to 20% for excellent service) in addition to the amount you pay the ski school. Easiski metioned that you should not tip if you are not happy with the instruction, but in the US/Canada it seems that this would be not actually be an acceptable way to act.

Reading through this thread, in europe it seems the norm is for dropping off a bottle of wine, an invite to lunch, dropping off a 'few bob' in an envelope at the ski school office, even a handing over of the lolly 'face to face' etc. which is a way of saying thankyou, but this is by choice, is not necessarilly expected and not an intergral part of the renumeration system for the ski instructor.

Frosty the Snowman, btw in Hong Kong the local removal teams load up the vans with the furniture etc. and do not move again until they are tipped before the leave the house, it is annoying but not necessarily a 'culture issue' of Hong Kong.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Frosty the Snowman, I always thought the fuel of UK removers was tea!

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rayscoops,

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

eng_ch, Some folks don't make a cup of tea, and some don't even say thank you.

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Frosty the Snowman, I was once having a few quiet beers street-side at a local retsaurant in north Bangkok and a local chap 'down at the heels' approached us for a small monetary contribution, my friend duly handed over a few low denomination coins and the chap pulled a face, remonstrated and started putting has hand out further for an 'up-lift' to the contribution. My friend, a highly qualified (English) engineer snatched his few coins back off the chap and told him to go on his way. My mate was from 'up norf' by the way. Another example of tight fisted Brits wink

After all it is free

eng_ch, When asked how they like their tea, a standard answer seems to be "On the hour, every hour" Very Happy

Stopping work or expressing displeasure is a sure fire tip loser though.

T Bar, u obviously did not dredge the lower end of the local TST removal firms Very Happy

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rayscoops,
No, I was Hong Kong side, they were always pretty reliable. But made the mistake once of only getting the big stuff removed, Never again Evil or Very Mad

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T Bar, Ah ha...Many folks think the big stuff is the heardet to move. Its the small stuff that takes the time.

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rayscoops, Curiously, I was once approached for a handout at Waterloo station by a beggar. I didn't have any spare money, but after I bought my pizza (that was the last of the money) I found it had onions in it. I found the beggar and offered him my uneaten pizza which he rejected because he didn't like the flavour! Shocked

I've never given anything to a beggar since.

Back on track though. I agree with eng_ch, in that the impression on the whole is that in the States, employers pay unnaccaptably low wages and the consumer has to top it up with tips. As a good little socialist I find this idea dreadful!

Frosty the Snowman, we've always tipped out removal men when they've been pleasant and helpful, but didn't when they threw stuff around and instead of rolling up a carpet just squashed it into creases ... If I tip someone and they aren't happy with the amount I would certainly remove what I'd paid.

If you want to give money tips to a ski teacher, I think the nicest way is to put it in a card - that way it's not embarasing to receive. Very Happy

easiski, my mate had a similar thing whereby he was asked for money for a cup of tea outside McD's, he said no but offered to actually buy a cup of tea on his behalf , the beggar went ballistic with a tirade of abuse !!

You know it makes sense.

rayscoops, I'm afraid most of them only want money for drugs. Sad

I would always help a homeless person if possible, but it's proving harder and harder.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Mr HL once gave money for a cup of tea at Waterloo and was most gratifed a few minutes later - the recipient brought the tea to show him that he had bought it.

A snowHead

A snowHead

holidayloverxx, my faith is restored in human nature

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Frosty the Snowman,

When I tip an instructor I do the "notes in the palm" handshake after the last lesson - no-one has ever been surprised

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and another thought - why would an instructor want to spend his/her free time with the punters e.g. for a meal? a drink after the last lesson maybe, but how many of us would want to do it - I think I would feel beholden to the customer - almost like begging.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

holidayloverxx, Because Easiskiers are different to punters!!! Very Happy

Personally I don't cook either!!

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easiski,

good point, it's great if everyone gets on well and can enjoy time together, I just imagine there would be those who just see it as a job and have no desire to mix.

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holidayloverxx, Yes - but they probably won't be the best instructors and therefore not the ones you want to tip! Seriously, of course many instructors have families etc so a meal would be out of the question, but a quick beer/coffee generally wouldn't be. Many ski schools encourage the end of week drink along with the certificates or whatever. I think it's nice.

On the whole though, I suppose I see it much the same as Rayscoops. I see myself as a professional and generally I wouldn't think of tipping say, an accountant or a solicitor or any other professional person, therefore I find it slightly embarassing to be given money (which sort of puts me in with hairdressers and taxi drivers in my mind I suppose). However, it's true that we don't earn nearly as much money as our qualifications and training should warrant, so tips are nice - I just find that if it can be done in a less obvious way it avoids the embarassment factor. I can always write later to thank the person. Presents are just that though (in whatever form), and are easier to receive gracefully (IMO).

If you want to reward an instructor who works for a ski school then dropping an envelope off at the school office also tells the school you were happy.

After all it is free

Incidently I was in Whistler recently and persuaded my mate to try snow boarding for the first time, he had 3 x 3 hour private lessons on consecutive days, bought all the coffees and lunches, tipped Can $200 and met up with the instuctor on the last night of the lessons for a social eveneing. Oh yes, I forgot, the instructor was a particularly attractive single female Very Happy

Slightly off topic, but I thought I'd add it for completeness.

Here, if the restaurant bill arrives, and you pay exactly the amount it says (ie:no tip) - you will actualy be causing your server to be out of pocket.

He/she has to pay a percentage of the bill (between 6 to 10 % varying on establishment) which is normally funded from their tips, to the restaurant, for splitting to all the other staff that you didn't see, but had some contribution in your meal.

The restaurant host, the bartender that made your drinks, dishwasher, person that keeps your water glass filled, table clearer etc.

I know some of you will have a problem with this, but

i) In general the quality of service in restaurants here is much higher than say Oz or the UK
ii) Think of it as performance related pay all the way down the chain, there;s another fine pay concept rolling eyes

So if you tip your server 0% he/she will be out of pocket.

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veeeight, the service in Whistler was fantastic and well worth a good tip. Can not believe that a waitress pays a percentage of the bill, surely it should be a percenatge of her tips Puzzled

. this means that a waitress may actually end up paying money for the benifit of working (if she has no tips).

BTW I thought the lift pass was a bit expensive until I exprienced the service from the lifties (although I did nearly chin one on the first gondola because i thought he was stealing my board; of course he had just taken it out of the slot to hand it to me Blush

), the mountain guides/safety guys etc. and then appreciated what the money was covering.

Help!!

Tipping ski instructors

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