Tipping ski instructors

A snowHead

Yup that is correct, it is a percentage of the bill.

Which is why, when I recently went into a restaurant with a group of tight fisted Brits and Aussies - I was pulled aside by the waiter, and asked to explain to that group (who had been in before and left zero tip) how the system works. You take the menu price of your dish, and add 30% to it, 15% for GST and PST, and 15% for the tip. He was actually out of pocket from that table on that night, though through averages throughout the night he didn't suffer too much.

A snowHead

veeeightIt works well out there. A system of paying what it says on the bill is FAR too complicated wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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veeeight, I'm apalled that a waiter would have to pay other staff members regardless of whether he/she was tipped or not! that's awful! Restaurant owners over the pond (both sides of the border) must become very rich very easily, as they seem to get their staff to pay everything! Shocked

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what I find incredible about this tipping system is that you would never guess in a thousand years about these rules/customs, which is why it is good to discuss it.

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well, you know, there are many more injustices out there in the world, that we, as consumers, know little about.

you could stop and think, but if you get too deep, you'd never buy.....

1. The sweatshop conditions under which many of your garments are made
2. Food produce, pickers, working conditions, pay etc.
3. Toys, goods, produced abroad in developing countries under appaulling conditions

and nearer to home, how supermarkets are pricing farmers out of business and driving them to suicide.

all of which you would never guess in a thousand years, or maybe, we do have an inkling, but choose not to think about it too much as it would impact on our convenience and costs.

After all it is free

veeeight, that's a bit of a red herring because you can choose to buy fair trade goods, use a farmer's market, support your own local independent businesses.... The prices are higher but at least they're transparent. But with a system where the tax authorities actually tax staff on money they may not have received because an outsider doesn't know it's mandatory to give a "gratuity" and the price on which you make the decision to buy is not the price you pay... ? Sorry, it stinks IMO - and it little better than the sweatshops you cite. I wonder what would happen, though, to say a restaurant that actually paid its staff properly - would it be overrun with demand for jobs?

Re obscure systems, customs, culture etc.

Not having a go at anyone, but me personally, wherever I go in the world, I research the local systems, cultures and customs.

So finding out about tipping in the USA is no different than not blowing your nose in a hanky in Japan, eating with your left hand in Malaysia, accepting money with your right hand/both hands in the Gulf States, sitting on the correct side of the Ger in Mongolia, pouring Soy Sauce onto rice in Japan etc.etc.

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Oh and for whoever mentioned tipping their surgeon, make sure you do so *before* the surgery in Hungary.

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Run that by me again... apart from the fact that you might want to show appreciation which is not compulsory, I assume. Why do we tip in north America?

It sounds like a cheap labour racket to me.

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Much like why UK ski slopes charge £45 to £150 (MK Xscape) for a 1 hour private lesson, of which the instructor might only see £5.75.

sidethought: £150 an hour at MK Xscape for a private, or £300 a (6 hour) day plus tip at WhistlerBlackcomb? Hmmm. I wonder which is the better value.

veeeight, Canadian $420 per 3 hours for snowboard lessons at Whistler a month or so ago, plus tip of course. In total $1260 plus $200 tip equated to £660 for 9 hours or £440 for six hours (day?) equivalent ! Not cheap either.

You know it makes sense.

Tipping is not really so obscure a custom (you would guess that most counties have some standard customs that need to be looked in to so that you do not cause offence etc. but we actually know about tipping and how it works) that you would delve too deep and research it further; it happens everywhere and most people appreciate that tips are welcome, but as I have been trying to point out, in North America it is called 'tipping' but in reality it is actually a payment becasue it is not really an option (based on the info in this thread) not to tip. Therein lies the problem, it is a discretionary payment disguised as a tip. But this is the system and we have to respect and accept it.

brian

A snowHead

I'm never embarassed to accept a tip - I just say Thank-you! In this part of the US ski industry ski instructors get paid much closer to the figures that ssh mentioned, rather than those Rusty Guy talked about! I don't expect tips per se, but if you have a good lesson it is a good way of showing your appreciation - $10 per group lesson, and at least $10 per hour for a private lesson is nice. Little Angel

I do understand that ski lessons are expensive and I do not expect you to tip but there are some occasions that do indicate that a tip will brighten my day:
If your child is having the instruction then please expect to tip, especially if said child has a heavy cold - would you like to spend 2 hours cleaning up someone elses snotty nosed kid?
If your children are badly behaved during the lesson do not expect me to be available on my day off to teach a private request............unless you tip really well!
If the weather is absolutely atrocious and most of the mountain is closed but I'm still smiling..........!

If you mention that you have no cash and that you are going to leave something in an envelope in the ski school office please remember to do so - you don't want to know what I'll think of you if you don't! Shocked

When I first started skiing I didn't realsie how little the instructors I had got paid, so my first season I didn't tip, but at the end of the season I did write to the ski school director to tell him how good the lessons were, and I then enclosed tips for the two instructors who had taught me the most. The next season I then tipped most of my instructors. I did have one tip refused though - the instructor asked me out for dinner instead! Very Happy

A snowHead

Must say I thought that in the UK HM Customs & Revenue assume that waiter is tipped, and tax accordingly. Thus, effectively, not tipping is applying a financial penalty on the waiter for poor service. Perhaps someone who has been a waiter - or is an accountant - can confirm or otherwise.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

achilles, most restaurants add a service charge to the bill and the restaurant is legally bound to distribute it, maybe this is why you believe tips are taxable as it is in fact a regulated/declared payment and therefore it seems reasonable for it to be taxed accordingly. I am sure that extra money left as a tip never makes its way in to any tax declaration Very Happy

BTW you can ask for the service charge to be removed from the bill if you want to !

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Kramer, think i will stick to rubber dingies in that case Sad

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veeeight, I tip for good service. Usually about 12.5% in this country. I would tend to tip the same in Canada, which would leave the waitress out of pocket. I was aware that tipping was considered compulsory, but not to that extent.

I think that for those complaining about the business practices of restaurants in North America, the prices for eating over there are significantly cheaper than they are over here, and this probably accounts for at least some of the difference.

After all it is free

Kramer, I actually found Whistler quite pricey compared to my little bit of UK, but not necessarily so compared to Europe alps. This skiing malarkey is an addictive but expensive leisure activity and you simply have to pay the ferry man to use the ferry Very Happy

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achilles, $120 rolling eyes

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Last time out in the States I generally let the Americans tell me how much the bill was and they would have included the tip. But if someone says I must tip the guys because they only earn 5 bucks an hr, I want to know why the business can't sustain a decent wage.
Might it be that the employer knows the job has a lot of takers - plausible in a ski resort - and therefore can let the job go to the cheapest employee and the employee knows he/she can/should make up a poor salary in tips.

Maybe it's just a different culture.

Most (if not all) service industry jobs in the US are relatively low pay. Most people who take those jobs also know that if they do a good job they will get a tip. Most also know that if the customer is a Brit, they are less likely to get a tip, because the British culture is to assume that we know better, and that the foreign culture is wrong, and why should they be tipped... Laughing

You know it makes sense.

The general Australian model where a decent wage is usually paid and tipping is not required as a matter of course seems the best system. I do not know if this applies to Australian ski instructors but it seemed to be the way of things elsewhere.

The US system seems to fall down insofar as high cost to the consumer is combined with a low wage. That suggests the owner is taking too much profit in my view.

I take a dim view of the excessively capitalist outlook in America where you screw employees as much as you can when you can. If that fails you export their jobs or bring in cheap immigrant labour to do their work.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Latchigo, which would explain Aussie ski instructors in the US Laughing

I take a dim view of the excessive capitalist outlook too. BUT... the "high consumer cost" you refer to is not reflected in food and drink prices.
Show me a popular bar in a French ski resort where you can get a pint of beer for under £3, and then tell me where the high consumer cost is.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Wear The Fox Hat, I was referring to tuition costs which I found to be more than the European equivalent.

I take the point about French beer prices though £3 is probably London prices now.

UK is not blameless. I eat occasionally in a caff called Muratori up by Mount Pleasant. The food is good though it is not the quickest service in the world. Most of the customers are black cab drivers. They are the first people in the world to complain about poor tips - but we have never seen a single one of them leave a tip in that place. It is so bad that there is not even a box or a saucer by the till. I would always look to tip in a caff unless the service was really bad but it looks as if cabbies do not practice what they preach.

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Re the differences in Australia vs. USA.....

I have yet to experience the quality of customer service in Australia/NZ that comes anywhere *near* the service in the USA/Canada.....

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Seems to me that if the culture is that waiters have to make a good part of their income from their tips, that may be good for the customer. The waiter has a positive incentive to provide good service; he will suffer if he does not - just like a small business man. Customers benefit - they have the better service, and they have the sanction of not tipping if the service is bad. Looks like a good deal for us punters to me - and in return we should tip unless service is bad.

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After all it is free

And when does that "service" become insincere just to get the tips? If someone goes beyond the call of duty because they feel it's the right and professional thing to do and happens to be more than the customer expected, then it deserves a tip. But when it becomes an "act" (if e.g. the smirking waitresses on TV shows are anything at all to go by - which of course may not be the case) for the purpose of extracting a tip then it's no longer service. It seems to me a tip is deserved precisely because it's not expected.

stevec, I guess it depends what you compare the service to, to define "good" and "bad".

Restaurants in the UK where I have had "good" service: Le Pont de la Tour, the Kings Head, Withies Inn.
Restaurants in the UK where the service has been OK, but nothing special: too many to list.

Restaurants in North America where I've had service below the quality of the first 3 I listed: Well, I was in a McDonalds once.

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It is more irksome in the US to find the barmaid often expects a tip if you buy a few drinks.

And why do some jobs attract tips but not others ? The McDonald's employee is probably on less money than a waitress but they do not get a tip with every order they serve.

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Tipping ski instructors

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