 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Yes, I reckon £20 for a day's instruction / guiding is a bit of a bargain!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@stephen buck, just a sec, who said anything about instructing? Evo aren't going to have their instructors giving away a day of tuition, even in a large group, for £20!!!
The question remains about group sizes, if this includes off piste, and whether this is a member exclusive - from what I understand of Crystal doing this their customers get it for free from the same company so presumably could end up with dozens following a guide around from all kinds of different organisations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@Mistress Panda, from the SCGB Q&A section:
Q. Are Evolution 2 able to instruct?
A. As fully qualified instructors under French law, they are able to lead, guide and instruct during these sessions.
And from Planet Ski - The Club has now decided to use qualified instructors to offer a similar service.
It will offer the guiding/instruction in 11 resorts in France and members will have to pay extra.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
PS Remember that it's £20 per person, so if the group is 10 or 12 strong, I imagine it would approx. cover the cost of the instructor.
I imagine that the Club will subsidise the cost if the group is smaller, but of course they will also be saving by not having to cover the expense involved in having a permanent rep in resort ( a combination of travel, accommodation, lift pass, food etc).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@under a new name,
| Quote: |
| The new service will operate in Alpe d’Huez, Argentière, Avoriaz, Courchevel, Flaine, La Plagne, Méribel, Les Arcs, Tignes, Val d'Isère and Val Thorens. |
From the scgb site, I would have been a little surprised had L2A been included even though there's an Evo2 there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Quote: |
but of course they will also be saving by not having to cover the expense involved in having a permanent rep in resort
|
From memory I think the total cost of running reps is around £200k per year. As France is probably a good 50% of the total I'd guess the saving might be £100k. I'm amazed members are being asked to pay again for something that was once included. Sorry but it feels like a scam.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I must say this is an imaginative approach from the SCGB.
Could work for anyone who does not want a standard tuition group but would like a Leader style day but with a few tips as well.
I am not sure what a weeks lessons cost now but this would be £120 a week plus the SCGB subscription.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
.@Pruman, I make it 11 French resorts out of a total of 29, so prob just over a third of the total cost?
@George Jones, I think it could work out well, too. It all depends on how many members choose to use it, but if successful, maybe they could expand it to other French resorts where Evo2 operate, but there has not been a SCGB presence historically.
Then maybe roll out the model in other countries using other local ski schools.
It also gets them out of the legal pickle they were in with off-piste guiding...
A win / win situation?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Looking in Les Arcs 6 half days in a group lesson are 245 euros with evolution2.
So SCGB offering is considerably less though it is not standard tuition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It could also take the SCGB away from being a volunteer led organisation into more of a holidays and discounts operation.
This will upset some and suit others.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Gerry wrote: |
| Super Chap Great Bloke = David Goldsmith? |
I never thought I would see the day when 'Ski Club' Gerry was so nice about David Goldsmith 
It would be interesting to hear what David thinks about all this.
It could mean the end of the reps which David sometimes seems to see as living the high life at the club's expense. I do not share that view; but I think his questions on costs and transparency are useful, valid and welcome.
On the other hand, if the club does go commercial David may hanker after the happy times of the good old days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Apparently, the Evo2 guys will also receive SCGB training in Tignes, will wear Club leader jackets, hold social hours and file the snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Claude B, that's an interesting list given that Evo2 don't have operations in a few of those places. Mind you, they just need one or two instructors happy to be based there and job done.
Economically, I can't believe that providing full cert French instructors can be cheaper than home grown amateurs. Even Room and board included doesn't feel like it should stack up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
^ an interesting point. However, the costs we are looking at are like hotel rack rates.
If someone comes along offering volume, deals can be done. This certainly applies to golf green fees.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@George Jones, comparing to hotel rates is maybe not such a good example. Instructors are not fixed costs. Hotels are. If someone walks into your hotel, rack rate £200, marginal cost of providing night's accommodation £5 and offers you £100, what's the rational thing to do?
Someone asks you to provide instructors, who will expect their normal daily rate (which is then more or less the marginal rate of supply) at a discount, you probably can't do that.
There is a reason (not that I know the background) as to why it's called Evolution2
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| stephen buck wrote: |
| .@Pruman, I make it 11 French resorts out of a total of 29, so prob just over a third of the total cost? |
Well no, it'll be the whole cost coming back into the overhead pot because they won't be offering those other 18 resorts. The "admin" charge of £10 or £20 will cover the Evo2 costs. And, if people want instruction they should go and get instruction. I can't see leading and instructing working well. A few tips on the go maybe but there's a difference in effectiveness. I suspect the Evo2 raison d'etre will be to sell up and that will get annoying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| stephen buck wrote: |
| Apparently, the Evo2 guys will also receive SCGB training in Tignes, will wear Club leader jackets, hold social hours and file the snow reports. |
Will the EV2 guys have to pay the leaders course fee 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I doubt it!
Apparently it's only 1 or 2 days training that they will do, "on the Ski Club's purpose, values and commitments, as well as the logistics of running a session and what's expected from members and the Ski Club"
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| under a new name wrote: |
@George Jones, comparing to hotel rates is maybe not such a good example. Instructors are not fixed costs. Hotels are. If someone walks into your hotel, rack rate £200, marginal cost of providing night's accommodation £5 and offers you £100, what's the rational thing to do?
Someone asks you to provide instructors, who will expect their normal daily rate (which is then more or less the marginal rate of supply) at a discount, you probably can't do that.
There is a reason (not that I know the background) as to why it's called Evolution2 |
Normal daily rate is one thing. However cost charged to an individual for a day will include a profit margin. That margin can probably be reduced considerably in return for volume and repeat business.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@hawkesbaynz, Not surprised about the lack of knowledge. I noticed and posted last winter that the reps who had been at Zell for years had all been bumped in favour of the some of the 'chosen ones' who'd lost their gigs in France.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@George Jones, my understanding of the margins of ski schools suggests that this woukd be unattractive to me. Looking at the apparent success of the Chamonix Evo2 I don't think I can see why having one instructor (per resort) out all season at a pretty immense discount makes any sense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| stephen buck wrote: |
@Mistress Panda, from the SCGB Q&A section:
Q. Are Evolution 2 able to instruct?
A. As fully qualified instructors under French law, they are able to lead, guide and instruct during these sessions.
. |
Of course if the Ski Club of Great Britain were a real club they could have leaders leading, instructing etc both on and off piste.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@davidof, I'm truly bemused by this post. Surely a real club is one where you meet like minded people to engage in activities with which you have a mutual enjoyment of 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| @George Jones, my understanding of the margins of ski schools suggests that this woukd be unattractive to me. Looking at the apparent success of the Chamonix Evo2 I don't think I can see why having one instructor (per resort) out all season at a pretty immense discount makes any sense. |
Supply of qualified people who could undertake this role probably exceeds demand. I suspect if Evo2 look hard enough they will find suitable candidates.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| davidof wrote: |
| stephen buck wrote: |
@Mistress Panda, from the SCGB Q&A section:
Q. Are Evolution 2 able to instruct?
A. As fully qualified instructors under French law, they are able to lead, guide and instruct during these sessions.
. |
Of course if the Ski Club of Great Britain were a real club they could have leaders leading, instructing etc both on and off piste. |
I am sure the SCGB is not the only club that has suffered at the hands of red tape, protectionism and elf and safety.
I still think their workaround is a clever one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
[quote="robboj"]@hawkesbaynz, Not surprised about the lack of knowledge. I noticed and posted last winter that the reps who had been at Zell for years had all been bumped in favour of the some of the 'chosen ones' who'd lost their lgigs in France.[/quote
How can anyone, let alone the "chosen ones" have "lost their gig" in France last year ....the SCGB were represented last season in France ! Silly post ...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
From memory I think the total cost of running reps is around £200k per year. As France is probably a good 50% of the total I'd guess the saving might be £100k. I'm amazed members are being asked to pay again for something that was once included. Sorry but it feels like a scam. |
SCGB still claim to have leaders/ambassadors in French resorts, I assume that Ambassadors/Leaders offer more than just a bit of casual guiding.
So I would guess that the running cost would see little change for the club. If as they seem to indicate the groups would be potentially smaller, that would go some way towards justifying the cost, of a
professional guide and instructor, I would think that group size is key to the value, I'd rather pay in Euro I think.
Do the Leaders /Ambassadors still ski with the group(s)?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
 🔫
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 24-07-15 11:11; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@under a new name, Evo2 do have some trainees in Chamonix or at least did five years ago when I was on a course together with some of them, they were f good skiers btw.
This could be very good business for Evo2, as it should tee up a lot of new clients.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| limegreen1 wrote: |
| 🔫 |
Yep.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| George Jones wrote: |
Supply of qualified people who could undertake this role probably exceeds demand. I suspect if Evo2 look hard enough they will find suitable candidates. |
Really?
- Fully qualified (that's the biggie)
- Interested
- Available during peak weeks
- In resort
- Not tied to ESF (or any non Evo2 school)
I wouldn't have thought so many fit the bill...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@jbob, fair enough. You'd expect them to be quite handy as it's the same system as the ESF and while one might often times fault their organisation, teaching practices, etc. they are (except the real coffin dodgers) excellent skiers.
And they're probably ex racing "locals" - maybe not local to Cham but I presume you get what I mean.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| George Jones wrote: |
Supply of qualified people who could undertake this role probably exceeds demand. I suspect if Evo2 look hard enough they will find suitable candidates. |
Really?
- Fully qualified (that's the biggie)
- Interested
- Available during peak weeks
- In resort
- Not tied to ESF (or any non Evo2 school)
I wouldn't have thought so many fit the bill... |
I imagine there are lots of qualified types.
They may be lured out by the prospect of a couple of months easy work. Networks is the key. Though once word gets out Evo2 may be approached by potential candidates rather than having to seek them out. Some of them may even be unemployed French nationals.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Will this service service be offered during school holidays?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@George Jones, no really, I imagine not. Unless you have access to information I don't?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posts in 11 resorts will not be difficult to fill.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@George Jones, how many unemployed EsF instructors do you know during Paris school holidays?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Not really much of a surprise. IMO based on what people said to me, the Ambassador service could never last. But we did have some fun last winter!
Having many of us (current and past members or those interested in coming along) just skiing as friends without any real leaders actually made it feel more like a club again. Some days we had groups as big as 25 plus dividing into smaller sections to do different stuff. One day the youngest was 6 years old and the oldest was 72 years old.
This relaxed social mix was something that IMO had been missing for the past few years. In most resorts I visited last winter there were similar groups of current or past members mixed together which anyone could join and have a good ski. These groups split up into natural ability groups to do different stuff and then often met for lunch or drinks afterwards. The best thing was that everyone mixed together whether you were a club member or not and just had a good time.
As for what will be happening next season. I am sure the informal groups in most large and some smaller resorts will continue. Most people I know have now moved on and use facebook or other online forums like snowheads to arrange meet ups. It works well and costs nothing!
However finally SCGB are having a professional service (which must be paid extra for) does make sense for those that wish to pay! Is it a 'club' or a 'business'! any more. Make up your own minds.
Bob, the SCGB site says the following. "What is happening to the Ambassador service? The Ambassador role will not be offered to members for the upcoming season 2015/16. Partnership with Evolution 2 will be replacing this service in France, offering an instruction-led guiding programme to members. This will be similar to the Leading service previously enjoyed by members in France, but with an additional instruction element."
The group size will be max 8 on piste and 6 off piste. At least that is what the web page says.
For full details of the new programme you should go to this link where most of what has been mentioned here has been answered. Much better to have the info from the horses mouth.
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9473#.VbQNEbWniCk
You never know this might actually work for those willing to pay for it. At least if i do meet them off piste they will be with qualified instructors or guides that know the routes and if they comply with French regulations will all have the right safety gear. Only time will tell!
For me the funniest thing about this is that one of the biggest Ski School Directors locally has now joined with Evo 2 and so will now be promoting SCGB having always said publicly how rubbish and unprofessional an organization it was and their Reps (Leaders) should not be allowerd on the mountain. I have personnaly heard this said by him many times. How money speaks!! Now he has changed his tune!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
