Update : item now removed from sale from both stores - see page 3!
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Snow and Rock and XXXX are both stocking the SnowBe avalanche beacon.
This is an avalanche beacon with "transmit only" operation
This "search only" avalanche beacon is immoral and unsafe for several reasons
1. Avalanche beacons depend on a search mode and rescue within 15 min by other group members. By the time ski patrol arrive its too late.
2. There is no guarantee this product won't be used just "on piste" as intended.
3. Modern beacons are easy to use in search mode. There is no valid reason not to have a search mode.
4. If users really want a cheap beacon then the "pieps freeride" is only £75 and has a search mode.
5. Inexperienced users using this product will not know to switch out of search mode in event of any incident involving another member of the group.
IMHO respected companies such as the 2 named above should be promoting avalanche safety ?
Please take time to google "snow-be tranmsit only" for the history. There is lots of negative information and reasons why this product is a horrible idea (the MD has changed his psuedo-name on their official web site several times!)
Have emailed both companies to complain about them stocking this product.
Awaiting reply.
In the meantime both Snow and Rock and XXXXX deserve to be named and shamed!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 22-03-13 17:53; edited 5 times in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Fecking w@nkers, boycott these stores!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
SnR website seems to allow you to leave reviews...
"It has no search function and therefore is not suited off-piste skiing. You cannot use it to locate other avalanche victims in your party."
I don't go off-piste, and especially not with my kids, but if I did I'd get one of these for each of the kids (and ones with search for me and the wife, so we could find them).
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quite useful for an Easter egg hunt
After all it is free
After all it is free
Haggis_Trap, err, please calm down dear. XXXXXXX's blurb for this device makes it absolutely clear that:
Quote:
It has no search function and therefore is not suited off-piste skiing. You cannot use it to locate other avalanche victims in your party
Essentially this device is a gimmick - if people want to spend £50 on something which might increase their chances of survival in the relatively rare (but not unheard of) event of an "on-piste" avalanche*, that's their right (just as they currently have the right to buy jackets etc equipped with the Recco device so that their corpses can be found at some unspecified point after their death). And if Slush & Rubble and XXXXXX can turn a dollar or two in the process, then good luck to them.
It seems to me highly improbable, bordering on the fanciful, to suppose that people who might otherwise ski responsibly off-piste (equipped with transceivers, shovels and probes) are suddenly going to take leave of their senses and settle for this glorified gimmick. Equally, the many people who ski off-piste without suitable equipment will continue to do so.
Last edited by After all it is free on Fri 22-03-13 9:25; edited 3 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Szymon, and then you'd always give your kids first tracks to test the snowpack?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
DT68 wrote:
Haggis_Trap, err, please calm down dear.
blah....
Surely reputable stores such as S&R or XXXXX should be promoting responsible off piste/ powder skiing ?
They should not be promoting tat like the "snow-be".... If you are in terrain that you think requires wearing a beacon then it must have a search mode.
This product is only suitable for training purposes - the text selling the item does not say this
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Fri 22-03-13 10:05; edited 1 time in total
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Haggis_Trap, I think we are passing like ships in the night. XXXXX's are trying to market this as something which could increase safety on-piste. Is there any reason why they should not promote an increase in on-piste safety?
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 22-03-13 9:24; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
^ It not not suitable for skiing on or off-piste. In the event of any avalanche you are depending on companion by other members of your group within 15 minutes. Not that most people need a beacon on-piste anyway (scaremonger marketting makes the product immoral). A RECCO sticker at £1 would be a lot cheaper and about as effective ?
If S&R were promoting safety they would at least tell people to get a "Pieps Free-ride" (£75), or other cheap beacon, with search mode ?
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 22-03-13 9:25; edited 6 times in total
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
DT68, Yes. There is no need for piste skiers to have beacons, promoting this is playing on neurotic fears to make a quick buck. Anyone interested in this will have no form of avi rescue knowledge (or they wouldn't be interested), so if there is any sort of avi rescue going on nearby, they are unlikely to remember to turn the beacons off, complicating the search. Plus, the utter selfishness of expecting to be rescued but unwilling to offer it back doesn't reflect well on others.
Leaving some feedback on Facebook seems like a quick way to get feelings across.
Someone let Unofficial Networks know because they picked up our original thread and made the inventor/c**t's life a misery. Let's not forget the original outcome was he promised only to market it as a training device.
S&R I hold in sufficiently low esteem to guess they'd do something like this BUT THEY'VE PROVED ME WRONG and it's NO LONGER a big black mark against the very credible Bartletts.
EDITS TO APPLAUD FAST REPONSE BY THESE COMPANIES.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 22-03-13 17:56; edited 1 time in total
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
DT68 wrote:
...just as they currently have the right to buy jackets etc equipped with the Recco device so that their corpses can be found at some unspecified point after their death
I agree, in which case what do you make of this commercial! Personally, I was a bit surprised.
Haggis_Trap, I thought recco stickers were only useful for locating bodies ...
clarky999, I too have reservations about the need for an on-piste beacon but would acknowledge that it is possible for avalanches to hit open pistes.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
fatbob, agreed. Slush and crap will sell anything they can make a contribution to smaller losses on. Ski Bartlett always seemed liked a nice outfit to me. Perhaps they aren't.
This is a ridiculous product, unfit for any purpose that's so far advertised.
On the other hand, I have a nice bridge for sale if anyone's interested! It's easily spotted from a helicopter to a valuable marker inavalanche rescue.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
under a new name, I've got some multi-coloured string ...
Bode Swiller, 5'50" in, Henry says the basic kit you need for off-piste is transceiver, shovel and probe. AND also that it is off-piste even if it is right next to the piste. So he does not appear to endorse Recco ...
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
DT68 wrote:
Haggis_Trap, I thought recco stickers were only useful for locating bodies ...
So are transmit only avy beacons if everyone in your party buys them.
Huh? I mean, I know he would NEVER endorse Recco for all the reasons we probably all agree on, but he has allowed himself to appear as if he is. Joe Public won't look too hard into it. They'll just think "renown avalanche expert and Recco". He probably isn't happy about it either mind you. I assume it's the radio station that is sponsored by them somehow.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Bode Swiller, I agree. Thoroughly misleading for anyone who (a) doesn't know better and (b) cannot be bothered to listen to what Henry has to say. But that person probably would not have a clue who Henry was in the first place so probably no damage done. But naughty anyway.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Scroll down. 59 Euros. [can't vouch for this device]. Nice to see a 21st century version of a classic. Or just trail a long red tape/cord, with directional/length markings to user ...
And don't tell me avalanche cords don't work. Clearly they could be used as a supplementary item to a transceiver, to increase the chance of life-saving.
That's all I've got to say, and don't want to get into any discussion about it.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
...and don't want to get into any discussion about it.
awwwwww.
Me confused however. What makes the four 10 metre ribbons propel themselves outwards and in four different directions. Wouldn't they just get all tangled around the victim? Can I take it on a 'plane? (ignore that last one)
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Hmm S&R product review submission currently unavailable
Shame I was only going to refer to this ringing endorsement from a popular snowsports website
Scroll down. 59 Euros. [can't vouch for this device]. Nice to see a 21st century version of a classic. Or just trail a long red tape/cord, with directional/length markings to user ...
And don't tell me avalanche cords don't work. Clearly they could be used as a supplementary item to a transceiver, to increase the chance of life-saving.
That's all I've got to say, and don't want to get into any discussion about it.
Which should you activate first: the airbag or the flash-avalanche thingumijig?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Mind you this product might have a point if you could attach it to piano threads
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Haggis_Trap, quick question, born out of idle but insatiable curtiosity - did you try speaking to XXXXXX before you started slagging them off? And when did you email them - how long before or after your first post in which complain about not having received a reply?
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Fri 22-03-13 9:26; edited 2 times in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
fatbob wrote:
Mind you this product might have a point if you could attach it to piano threads
Haggis_Trap, quick question, born out of idle but insatiable curtiosity - did you try speaking to Ski Bartlett before you started slagging them off?
XXXXX decided to stock and promote this dubious item....
If they stop selling it I can delete their name from this thread ?
Seems reasonable ?
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Fri 22-03-13 10:05; edited 1 time in total
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Haggis_Trap wrote:
DT68 wrote:
Haggis_Trap, quick question, born out of idle but insatiable curtiosity - did you try speaking to XXXXXX before you started slagging them off?
XXXXXXX decided to stock and promote this dubious item....
If they stop selling it I can delete their name from this thread ?
Seems reasonable ?
That would be reasonable. But I am just wondering how reasonable it was to kick this public thread off in the first place. So would you please answer my perfectly reasonable questions?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 22-03-13 9:26; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
Seems reasonable ?
Not really. If a product is legal and someone makes a decision that they'd like to sell it, and another person that they'd like to buy it, then it's their business. Cigarettes, alcohol, cars, bikes, sunlight - they all kill waaaay more people than avalanches but are freely available.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
business that usually gets rightly highly recommended here makes a very poor product decision. I don't see what's wrong with anyone pointing it out. I wondered when the paronoia pimp was touting his shoddy product at the ski show what mugs would buy it? It's a shame if any ski retailer thinks his customers are those mugs.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 22-03-13 17:58; edited 2 times in total
Not really. If a product is legal and someone makes a decision that they'd like to sell it, and another person that they'd like to buy it, then it's their business. Cigarettes, alcohol, cars, bikes, sunlight - they all kill waaaay more people than avalanches but are freely available.
Also seems pretty reasonable to denounce shops what sell stuff that is not fit for purpose, free speech and all that.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
- The SnowBe is a near-useless piece of scare-ware that no responsible retailer should be selling.
- I don't see why avalanche cords cannot make a valid contribution to the range of devices out there. The "powder streamers" our cat-skiing guide advised our party to use did a good job of flagging buried lost skis. Not every time, but often.
- The official report from the Tignes avalanche last December (big thread on here) stated that the victim who survived was located by a Recco reflection off his phone. No doubt a real Recco reflector would work even better. I think it's a bit glib for Recco to be referred to as a "body location device". Now that a burial can often be called in immediately by mobile phone, and if the weather is good enough that the chopper can fly, they can be sweeping the site within the same timeframe that a local transponder search takes (and covering a far greater area). Of course that's two big "ifs" and hence no replacement for a transponder, but for a quid....
- You cannot spend your way out of danger. The underlying principal always has to be don't get caught in the first place. Easier said than done though...
- The risk of your kids being caught in an on-piste avalanche is effectively zero, certainly in comparison with letting them ride in a vehicle or cross the road.
Oh well. Normal standards of courtesy might suggest that you raise the issue directly with the retailer and give them a reasonable opportunity to respond before reaching for the loudhailer. But those standards seem beyond T Bar, fatbob, Haggis_Trap and others.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
DT68 we're not the people who decided to stock a product that even a cursory internet search would tell the retailer is somewhet controversial. Nor advertise it on our public websites without a full disclosure about why it's not really appropriate and there are better products only slightly more expensive which ar eless ethically dubious. Let's see, it'll be the measure of a business I rate pretty highly as to how quickly they withdraw the product and tell the supllier he should really give it up. 3 changes of name within a year is a marker for rogue traders not a quality safety product.
After all it is free
After all it is free
fatbob, I believe it has already been withdrawn. I am sure that would have happened just as quickly if the loudhailer and attendant nastiness had not been deployed.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
DT68, Good credit to them if so.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
DT68, no.
Don't be ridiculous.
Let me amplify.
Here is a product that was being touted (I use that verb as I mean to) as a safety product, up to and including lifesaving.
The fact (fact) that it is nothing of the sort, but described as such in the marketing puff suggests to me that any attempt whatsoever to render its shortcomings obvious to the market is honourable and morally (legally) correct.
Rant over. For the mo.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Thu 21-03-13 22:46; edited 2 times in total
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Poster: A snowHead
