 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@rob@rar, it's the same characters hence my suspicion. I have always said some Brits but we can see by the support for some parties that it is a sizeable problem. The lack of language skills which is a real problem is also generally true and UK is not an alpine nation. Sorry but these are all facts not xenophobia. I like to tease but not wind up. If one or two people reflect then it is worthwhile. There is a very serious point here. Learn the language would be my advice and then you can start to understand the different cultures and attitudes. I have to explain to Brits all the time that their attitudes will be counter productive else where. Yes it works in reverse but the difference is they generally have a high standard of English which Brits generally don't. That is just a fact whether you like it or not. To try and keep the vagualy relevant I've found learning the language greatly enhances the ski experience.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| clarky999 wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
@Mike Pow, why would you ever want to be on it? Might as well be on piste  |
Kinda like asking would you rather be walking on the coral reef on the seabed or floating on top of the wave above it. Sure you might get wetter walking on the bottom, but which is more fun?  |
If you're balanced and you're skiing fast enough you can do both on a narrower platform underfoot.
It's a little harder to go diving on a wider waisted ski  |
I'd wager I've spent more time skiing pow on skinny skis than you have on fat skis (by your own admission when you tried some for a couple ofa days last season) aaaaannd... No, you can't, not properly. Not the same feeling at all, and much harder to throw sideways and drift (which is super fun).
IMHO.
But you CAN drive the tips of fat skis down whenever you want 
Interestingly speaking to most manufacturers at ISPO, the trend is now for skis to start narrowing again, as with refined rocker profiles the massive waists aren't so neccessary anymore. I think things will balance around the 120mm mark in the end.
I think ideally for pow you want that fat waist but with skinny(er) tips - you get the float and surf underfoot of a big ski, but as the whole platform isn't so big you'll be running a bit deeper, though still with the surfy feeling.
I think my 4FRNT EHPs (and probably the Hojis more so, though I haven't skied them) illustrate this well. Also Praxis Powderboards judging from my mates performance on them - 138mm underfoot so full surf, but the skinny tips (tails are narrow enough to fit in old-school tiny gondola racks) are usually under the snow.
BUT that will make them even more specialised and less versatile.
OTOH on 20cm days I'll take as much float as I can get.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 13-02-15 23:03; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@Dav, you could not be further from the truth. Clearly you have no experience of seeing the attitudes of some Brits from the perspective of a local who speaks the language. I am British. I see it for what it is good and bad. I've seen and heard some really despicable behaviour from Brits while skiing. These are facts. Deal with the reality.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| TTT wrote: |
| @rob@rar, it's the same characters hence my suspicion. I have always said some Brits but we can see by the support for some parties that it is a sizeable problem. The lack of language skills which is a real problem is also generally true and UK is not an alpine nation. Sorry but these are all facts not xenophobia. I like to tease but not wind up. If one or two people reflect then it is worthwhile. There is a very serious point here. Learn the language would be my advice and then you can start to understand the different cultures and attitudes. I have to explain to Brits all the time that their attitudes will be counter productive else where. Yes it works in reverse but the difference is they generally have a high standard of English which Brits generally don't. That is just a fact whether you like it or not. To try and keep the vagualy relevant I've found learning the language greatly enhances the ski experience. |
I think my problem with some of your posts is that sometimes legitimate (IMO) concerns are simply targeted at the wrong audience. As much as you'd try to convey the impression, this is not the forum of the UKIP Ski Club. The harder you try to push, the more that reasonable people will push back. The views that perhaps make you despair are not often expressed in threads that you don't post in. You've made some points in this thread that generally I agree with, but it's difficult for me to support them because I think too often they are wrapped in a veneer of bitterness. Spread a bit of love and maybe you'll carry a few more people with you...?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
This whole in it or on it tosh is the most contrived argument on the planet. What depth is the best and why? What most people are after is the bottomless turn which arguably is easier to find on modern ski designs. Plus people seem to forget that modern skis are much better dealing with crud and crusts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| TTT wrote: |
| @Dav, you could not be further from the truth. Clearly you have no experience of seeing the attitudes of some Brits from the perspective of a local who speaks the language. I am British. I see it for what it is good and bad. I've seen and heard some really despicable behaviour from Brits while skiing. These are facts. Deal with the reality. |
TTT, clearly you are obsessed with generalisations. And clearly you also either can't comprehend differing opinions, or just don't want to. I have worked and lived in the Alps in the recent past, in multiple resorts. I am fluent in "the language" and still have many friends of foreign nationalities from such. And still, I have yet to see such consistently despicable opinions as your own clear malevolence to "the British" that you continue to display on here.
That's that reality, my bigoted companion. I'd suggest you might want to consider dealing with that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@TTT, you say you are British, but English is not your language? You sink your teeth into sweeping generalisations of British skiers, then moan that the targets of your bite have no sense of humour when they react. You, son, are on the wind up... And you have come to the heart of the kirk for your wind up, congratulations. Your mother must be proud.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@meh, i was watching an MSP vid this evening, where some of the (immensely talented and skillfull) young turks were having a go at pulling their usual shredding tricks with 80s boots and skis.
Guess what...?
Yep, (more or less) business as usual...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@rob@rar, I really do see a disproportionate amount of Brits on fat skis for the reasons that I've given. Others from previous nationalistic topics choose to see this as some national slight. It is not. UK has not moved to the Alps as far as I'm aware. UKIP is a populist party. Daily Mail is a popular paper.Brit foreign language skills are generally poor. These are real potential issues for the ski instructor industry whether you like it or not or choose to deny these realities. I fully agree that it is best to bring people along with you but there is a certain type on SHs whose views are so core to their belief system that they will never change whatever I say. There is no doubt that my experiences and therefore my views are very different to the majority so I don't sit comfortably on here but I always personally find it far more insightful to hear the views of people that have different experiences from me rather than the comfort of having my views reaffirmed by someone with similar limited experiences to me. It is not a position that naturally people like as it creates dissonance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@TTT,
As people ski past as you see them on the lift how do you tell who are the Brits, the French, German, Irish, Dutch etc etc do you have some telepathic insight the rest of us do not ?
Because the only way you can make the statements you do is if you possess this ability. If not you can not tell the difference on the whole mountain re who are Brits or say Irish or Dutch etc you are making presumptions based on a small percentage. Now yes you are entitled to your opinion but you do not state opinion you say you are stating fact.
The only fact is you are not stating facts just your own very limited opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
@Dav, are you seriously suggesting UKIP and the Daily Mail don"t exist. I've never said everyone. Ive said it is a sizeable problem and clearly it is from the popular support for xenophobic positions. It sounds like your exposure was very limited and that you are in denial. You really do have to be relatively isolated and learn the language to a good level before you know the reality of what people really think. We are talking about some Brits. Are you really suggesting that nationalism is not a serious problem in the world today? I am saying that there is a problem with the attitude of some Brits just as there is a problem in many countries. im afraid some of the things ive seen and heard are not repeatable. Are you seriously suggesting that UK is an alpine country, that foreign language skills are not poor? yes generalisation but realities whether you seek to deny them or not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@speed098, I happened to be on a Brit TO bus? I happen to ski with groups from different countries for my work events? The people from different countries speak different languages? The UK is not an alpine country with a race culture? Fully admit it is based on numerous observation as ski frequently but never claimed that I have made a scientific study.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@stuarth, what! I thought you spoke French over there??
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| TTT wrote: |
| @speed098, I happened to be on a Brit TO bus? I happen to ski with groups from different countries for my work events? The people from different countries speak different languages? The UK is not an alpine country with a race culture? Fully admit it is based on numerous observation as ski frequently but never claimed that I have made a scientific study. |
No but you are stating it as fact not as an opinion.
By your comment above it is clear you do only have limited data and as such it can ever only be an opinion.
Now I don't know or really care if you do it to try and wind people up but all it does do is weaken any valid points you may make.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@stuarth, I really don't have enough experience of N America to comment. I can be skiing before the time it takes me to get to the airport. I still have absolutely no issue with using fat skis for what they are intended.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| TTT wrote: |
| @Dav, are you seriously suggesting UKIP and the Daily Mail don"t exist. I've never said everyone. Ive said it is a sizeable problem and clearly it is from the popular support for xenophobic positions. |
And both are routinely ridiculed by the vast majority of people - hence the popular nickname Daily Fail (and others).
Most countries have a significant minority of right wing idiots who want to chuck all the immigrants out - that's far from an exclusively British thing.
Sadly there are stupid people the world over.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| TTT wrote: |
| are you seriously suggesting UKIP and the Daily Mail don"t exist. |
I'm pretty sure I've never said that. Are you trying to suggest I have? Again, it's the generalisations thing with you. Address what I have said, not other people or other issues. It is a massive weakness in your argument, or self-confessed "fishing" to do otherwise. Either deal with what I've said or don't bother, you're just "fishing" by doing otherwise. Or being a bit simple.
| TTT wrote: |
| I've never said everyone. Ive said it is a sizeable problem and clearly it is from the popular support for xenophobic positions. |
Based on what? Your own limited experiences only? yet you are only too happy to deingrate other people's experiences and classify them as less relevant than your own. But You're not talking about "some" Brits though, are you? You're suggesting it as a trend. A generalisation.
| TTT wrote: |
| It sounds like your exposure was very limited and that you are in denial. You really do have to be relatively isolated and learn the language to a good level before you know the reality of what people really think. We are talking about some Brits. |
You're even trying to guess where I've lived and worked before to prove your point! My "exposure", as you put it, comes from multiple years in multiple resorts, meeting multiple people of multiple nationalities. And I think my being fluent in the language is a pretty good level to know the reality of what people really think, being as I regularly converse with them in their native tongue. Or are you trying to say this isn't the case in my experience? I can't really tell. Like I say, it's a weak and cheap shot on your behalf with no merit or baseline in fact.
| TTT wrote: |
| Are you really suggesting that nationalism is not a serious problem in the world today? |
No. Show me where I've said that, if not you're again making things up to try and prop up your own weak argument.
| TTT wrote: |
| Are you seriously suggesting that UK is an alpine country, that foreign language skills are not poor? yes generalisation but realities whether you seek to deny them or not. |
Again, no, I'm not saying that, you just made it up.
You just know that someone has a very weak argument or is just "fishing" when they have to make up opinions of others to argue against. Is this another of your "fishing" things? That you have to make up false opinions of others just to try and while away some time arguing on an internet forum?
More fool me for getting sucked into it. Well done, you got a "bite".
Thankfully the most pig ignorant person I've found on my travels only inhabits an internet forum I frequent, and I never had to meet someone so boorish and boring in real life.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@speed098, I never claimed it was an overall fact. I said I saw a bus load of Brits all getting off a bus for fat skis for a Piste ski. That is a fact. UK is not an alpine nation. Fact. Fully possible that coach load are the numerous people from various countries that I ski with happen to be an anomaly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@dode, I am British but English is not the first language I use so you do lose it if you don't use it so much. Always have to read what I write carefully. I still think people need to look up the word generalisation. That it is generally true but does not always apply does not make something wrong and I frequently refer to some Brits. I've always openly admitted to taking certain positions and colourful adjectives. People that are in the know actually agree with the substance of my arguments. Yes you get a fair amount of comments about other countries and I give some back. Most of the time I'm just pointing out some geographic and cultural realities. Some SHS to take Brit skiing too seriously. There are some serious issues. I could not believe what I've seen and heard recently from Brits. I was really shocked and disgusted.
But when I see buses of Brits on too wide skis and buses from other countries with appropriate skis then it does make you curious as to why. I don't see people as using too fat skis as a crime against humanity so really not sure why people get so excited about observation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| TTT wrote: |
| @speed098, I never claimed it was an overall fact. I said I saw a bus load of Brits all getting off a bus for fat skis for a Piste ski. That is a fact. |
Disgusting segregation - where's this generation's Rosa Parks when we need them?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@clarky999, ha ha, yes, but they were still making a pretty good fist of things. No, I tried to find it, Scott Gaffney directing I think...I'll call in at the pub and ask tonight.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@clarky999, Interesting about your observation r.e.120mm, Atomic reduced their Bent last year to this from the previous model which was 123mm underfoot. One thing I have found is that with more centrally mounted binding positions it is much easier to get fatter skis to dive under when you want.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
... But back on topic. There is definitely a trend to wider skis, and I do wonder if folk forget how much fun can be had on piste with a piste ski.
wider off piste skis are definitely more fun and forgiving off piste.
But for your Joe average 1 week a year punter of whatever nationality with off piste aspirations are they being misled by marketing?
I've been there, gone from narrow to wide then back to narrow with a wide set for guided days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
I regularly proclaim to be a card carrying member of the 'all the gear no idea' club but that is said partly in jest. I do spend 80% (perhaps even more) of my time skiing off piste but probably encounter proper powder snow only 30% of that time. I do use wide, rockered skis as my daily driver. I do, most definitely, still require regular instruction. I probably have more disposable income than sense when to comes to ski gear.
That said, I only have room in my luggage allowance for one pair of skis, so I've stuck with the pair that I am – with my limited skills and experience – able to ski in in almost all conditions (I'm sure I'm not the only person who struggles with refrozen crud). I said this on page 1 or 2 of this thread: despite skiing on fatter, longer skis, I don't experience the same knee problems as with my previous skinnier, shorter skis. Thus, anecdotally, wider skis are leading to fewer injuries in my case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Pedantica wrote: |
| I caused (without realising it until I tried to get out of my car after a long-ish ride home) considerable damage to my knees, testing a pair of Whitedots at MK. I'm inclined to believe this article, though was slightly alarmed by his mid-80s threshold - my all-mountain skis, which I use all the time, are 85 underfoot. |
If you don't mind me asking, what were you on before your 85s (I think you might have told me in an old thread last year but I can't remember)? Did the change make a difference to your skiing on and off piste? Have you had any knee issues with 85? I ski everything (badly) on skis that are 79 underfoot. I could easily have access to two pairs of skis (slimmer than 79 and some that are 84… or wider but I really don't want to stress my knees after having an ACL reconstruction). I'm wondering, when you're talking about those sorts of widths, whether it's worth it (though it would not cost me any money)? I ski 50/50 on/off...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Could have used a wider waisted ski today.
30-50 cm of windblown powder with the consistency of concrete.
If that was the norm for round here then I'd be on a much wider platform.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
If you think it's bad with Brits, try the US, whilst I was in CO a few weeks ago everyone was on fat skis, it hadn't snowed in weeks. I love my fat skis, but they are definitely hard on the knees on hard snow, and the feet as well! I skied 6 weeks on race skis without a boot issue, as soon as I switched to 100mm plus in Japan the sides of my feet were hurting within a week or so.
As for the eternal fat v skinny debate, I like skiing fast and jumping off stuff, so fat skis are the only choice. If you are a one week a year skier who predominantly skis the piste in Europe/US, get some 75mm carving skis and everything will be a lot better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
+1 sounds about right from what I've seen. Also recommend about 75 to mates for general holiday skiing. Bit wider if ski off-piste on ski routes and powder days but then how many powder days do you typically get in Europe. Probably once a week at best in high resorts and probably a lot less in most main resorts?
Personally would say I've had one proper powder day out of 30 so for this season and perhaps 3 out of 50 most seasons where I would have liked to have been on a fatter ski so generally would not make sense to me to have a wide ski in Europe for general skiing. Would certainly use something fatter if I'm spending the week off piste.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| jammer wrote: |
| they are definitely hard on the knees on hard snow |
i.e. you actually physically feel it? What concerns me is putting significant strain on knees without getting enough feedback to realise it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@miranda, my Black Pearls are 88mm waist and don't feel it at all, in fact they are easier on my knees than my 78 waisted Idylls were! I personally wouldn't go any wider though as I mostly ski on piste.
On a separate note, I do wonder why someone who hates British skiers so much is on a British ski forum 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@miranda, my previous Idylls were 75 underfoot. I replaced them with Edens because the Idylls were a bit too light and noodly on piste. My knees are OK, so long as I ice them most evenings, don't think the skis are a problem, merely old age!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@HoneyBunny, interesting… both you and Zero G finding wider skis easier on the knees…. I would be concerned firstly because of Pedantica's experience (although she did say she felt the pain that same day, just not until she got home), and because I know how easy it is to do a lot of sport when you're younger that puts a lot of strain on your knees, not feel the pain, and so not realise until later (sometimes too late). As ever, I find myself wondering WWJD?*
*J = Jonathan (Bell), not Jesus obviously - he could walk on water, so I'm fairly sure wouldn't have needed fat skis on a Europe/US powder day
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
ah, thanks @Pedantica!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I don't hate British skiers - I ski with a lot of them. There is a fair proportion of idiots just like everywhere. Find a greater proportion of obnoxious Brits than other countries which put down to a bit of water, lack of foreign language skills and understanding of mountain culture. Vast majority of Brits are fine. I do wonder why some Brits go on holiday to a foreign country. But yes I don't sit on here easily and there are some really strange views to an outsider. There are also some people on here who really know what they are talking about who you can learn from and there are even some Brits who clearly have a sense of fun. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@TTT, If I were you I'd stop digging, fess up to having made some pretty rude and narrow-minded comments yourself, and move on.
For my part, I apologise for calling your posts about "Brit skiers" tiresome.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I just find it ironic that the man (woman?) who has said some Brits are xenophobic has posted the most xenophobic comments on this thread.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@miranda, the Whitedots were, to be fair, absolutely humungous (for me).
And TTT's comments ARE tiresome, I'm afraid. At least I find them so, and that's even from the perspective of half my family being French and my being fluent in the language.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@miranda, my knees have been crunchy and creaky for years, so I can really tell the difference. Normally they're stiff for a couple of weeks after skiing, but not this time.
I demoed some 100+ width skis on the EoSB in 2013 (Armada TSTws and DPS something-or-others) and really struggled with them - mainly due to poor technique, no doubt.
I also agree they are tiresome!! It's like a stuck record. That's from the perspective of living with a Frenchman
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Maybe he was British putting on a Canadian accent? 
