 Poster: A snowHead
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I had my first experience on a dry slope last night, at the John Nike slope in Bracknell. Seemed like a good setup with some friendly people from a varied age group. But (there always is one), the skis were shocking - old skinny straight things. The guy dispensing them seemed to have no idea about DIN settings (or much else to be honest) which was a tad worrying. If I'd been a beginner (which I suppose I was in a sense) potential injury could have arisen from the trust needed in that situation.
Apart from those few points, it was a good experience and at least a sort of substitute for "real" sliding 
One of the things I was keen to learn about was the route to instructor training. The (extremely) helpful guy I spoke to recommended trying High Wycombe, because the courses run by John Nike centres only qualify instructors to teach at John Nike centres, whereas the courses run at High Wycombe cover all dry slopes in the UK with the advantage also of circumventing the BASI 3 foundation course.
A couple of questions (David?, or anyone else):
1) Anyone know who to contact at High Wycombe to discuss instructor courses?
2) Carving skis - It seemed immediately apparent that I'll need some carvers. A second hand pair would seem the natural choice, so anyone got any for sale or suggest a good starting point for buying some?
3) Skis again - Best all round type for dry slope skiing? And length - does one tend to have the same length ski as for snow skiing (bearing in mind that I am also considering joining a race club at some point)?
4) Salopettes - Are there any outlets that anyone knows about that sell light weight salopettes, or something similar? Jeans just don't seem to cut it!
Many thanks in advance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mark Hunter, Martin Bell (latest snowHead member) runs summer race camps at Wycombe ... But I'm not sure if you'll quite qualify, Mark, as it's for the 7 - 17 age group? 
http://www.skimartinbell.com/
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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but we're all kids at heart...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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HI. I teach at the Bracknell slope, (Well, not this year due to injury). So, couple of points. They do have shaped skis there now up to 150 cm in length, so ALWAYS ask for these (Old rule of thumb, drop at least 10cm in length on a dry slope)!
In addition to the John Nike trianing programme, once you do that, you can also do a weeeknd course there with the English Ski Council to qualify as a "Club Instructor", which would get you into any artificial slope. In my opinion/experience none of these are consided equivialnts to BASI 3, and will only every qualify you to work on an artifical slope (Snow dome or plastic), not in resort. Hope that helps? The IT programme at Brackenll in the past has always been really good, but there has been a big change in personnel there this year, so not sure what this summers course will be like.
Trousers - golf trousers/water proof trousers over top. Or ski pants, that are just "shells" , ie light weight. Most ski shops sell them.
HOpe to bump into you at the slope soon. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mark. A good contact for advice in this area could be Andrew Lockerbie, who's a BASI trainer and managed Wycombe Summit for many years (I gather he's left now). He's a very nice guy. You should be able to track him down via:
http://www.world-class-skiing.com/
I think he's still a director of this company.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks David, I've been in touch with World-Class Skiing and am waiting to hear back.
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Mark Hunter, checkout the snowsport england site for details of instructor training. The minimum requirement at our slope for any instructor is the basic Club Instructor qualification. To get this you will need to undergo a 2 day training course, then start off by observing lessons, gradually moving into participating and finally into doing lessons yourself under supervision. After enough of this (ie a MINUMUM of 20 teaching hours) you can do a 1 day assessment to get the ticket. Club Instructors are allowed to teach up to basic swing lift users, possibly basic parallel with the blessing of the management.
After that you can do another 2 day training course with a view to becoming an ASSI. Successful completion of this followed by much more teaching practice leads to a 2 day ASSI assessment. Both Club Instructors and ASSI's are re-validated every 3 years (and that is going to change to become a form of "continuous professional development" / competency based training).
Holding an ASSI did at one time, I believe, exempt you from the BASI foundation course but there is some confusion over this because the Scottish ASSI was held in higher esteem than the English and Welsh ones. Nowadays I believe there is an exemption from part of the BASI, but not for the whole week. Check out the BASI site for that I guess.
Personally I use the same length of ski on plastic as I do on snow.
(hmm - why doesn't the url shortening work?)
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 27-05-04 21:21; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Looks like the ] at the end of the url has become part of the link?
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Mark, Alans comments make sense in the context of what you were told last night. Brackenll occassioanlly arrange for the Club Instructor course to be run at their slope (and if you have done the in-house John Nike program you have already done the 20 hours shadowing so that is included), but then people i know from there have been over to Wycombe to do the ASSI course (Artifical Ski Slope Instructor).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Alan, again thanks for the info. I've just spoken to Andrew Lockerbie (David was right - a really nice guy) and he confirmed that the Scottish ASSI provides some exemption from part of BASI 3. Some of the courses that his company run also look exactly like the sort of thing that I need to be looking at, which is good.
David, just by way of info, the guy who runs things at Wycombe is Paul Morley-Smith. Andrew's advice was really helpful and I mentioned that I would pass on his regards. Again, many thanks.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Robbie, sorry didn't mean to ignore your last post, I took a call mid typing and you and PG snuck an entry in!
Actually perhaps you could assist; if there is a particular ski that I prefer for piste skiing, is it reasonable to expect that it should perform equally as well?
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You know it makes sense.
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Mark Hunter, That's ok. 
Am not an expert, but i like a short stiff ski on the dry. It is not like i am ever going to have to struggle through the off piste on it! In reality though, what normally happens is that when i get new "snow" skis, the old ones come on to the dry. Works well for me. You mentioned though that you were looking to race as well i think? The SRSA or something? So then, you probably really do want a shorter ski than your 170's i would think, IMHO.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Elizabeth B, you're right! but now it doesn't make sense.. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks Robbie. Do you reckon a 160 ought to do the trick? I'm quite a big guy - 182 cm and 95 kilos. Whilst we're on the subject, what's the general rule of thumb on DIN numbers? There's a chart at the slope which seems to provide a DIN number that relates only to length of ski and ability level. There's no reference to height or weight.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mark Hunter, here's a website with a setting chart. They don't change much from year to year, though the French safety people have proposed an alternative:
http://www.terrymorse.com/ski/din.html
If you've not used this chart before, it takes a bit of getting used to. Do your calculation and we can have a communal check.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Mark Hunter, DIN (nowadays "release setting") is NOT a rule of thumb (unless you want to break them). If the bindings were not set by certified technicians using the manufacturer's recommendations then the slope is wide open to hefty litigation (and the insurance premiums are already crippling).
We use Salomon bindings and have a training course every year (things are always changing, despite what Ali Ross says )
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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OK, at 182cm and 95k kilos with a II/III setting and boot size in column 4, that puts me at a DIN setting of 9. I normally ski on 7.5. Hmmmm....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mark Hunter, I won't bother to double-check your calculation. If you normally ski at 7.5 and don't inadvertently release at that level, then stick with it. Just watch yourself if you decide to crank up the speed (on snow), for instance by taking part in a race. I've decreased my preferred setting from 9 to 8 over the years, and I'm now in the 'over 50' age category, which is one factor on the setting chart anyway. But if I went through some GS gates I'd tighten up the bindings.
On a plastic slope you are not going to be skiing fast, or subjecting the binding to a lot of shakes (e.g. from bumps or rough frozen snow), so you're not likely to pre-release on slightly lower settings than you might use on snow. Hope that makes sense.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Mark, i am with David on that one. Go with what you are used to, if anything crank it dwon slightly for the dry. Yes, i would think a 160cm would be perfect (it is what i use  )
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Mark Hunter, based on the figures you gave, if you are a II, then the value is 7.5, if you're a III, then 9.
On the dry, I would crank down.
Unless you're racing, or doing tricks, I would say that skiing on the lowest possible setting that doesn't mean you pop out all the time. If you can ski on snow with your bindings at say, 5, you are showing a deftness and control that many of us lack! (if, on the other hand, you own a red sports car, you may want to crank up your bindings to 14+, as it is well known that the bigger the din setting, the bigger the "man"  )
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...but not necessarily the bigger the brain. High Din settings don't favour the tough guys in low-speed falls. Many torn knees have resulted.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Mark Hunter, in the past, adults who wanted to get some miles through gates have always been welcome to join my Wycombe camp. They acted as "helpers" (ie. getting the younger kids organised) in return for a reduced rate for the camp. Let me know if you're interested.
The Snowsports Scotland ASSI (http://www.snsc.demon.co.uk/courses/assi.htm) doesn't have the 20 supervised teaching hours required by the English version.
For ski length, in plastic racing the minimum 165cm for slalom is recommended but not enforced.
Padded jeans were de rigueur for plastic racing at Hillend in the late 70s (ask Davee Mercer!) but most now mainly wear tracksuits. If you really don't like having a moist lower half of the body, consider thin waterproof trousers.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 29-05-04 16:04; edited 1 time in total
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Speaking from my (enormously) limited experience on skis – which now includes a snapped Achilles tendon – I’ve come to the conclusion that (unless we have the toned body of an Olympian) we are far better off whist learning new tricks and techniques, to keep our DIN settings below 5. You’ll not snap-out if you get the move right and if you screw-up you’ll not rip a tendon etc. when your ski gets torn off. So what if you eat snow, there’s always another lift.
I’ve a background in coaching gymnastics and trampolining and the one thing that overrides all other considerations is palliative safety. Equipment condition, crash mats, harnesses, spotters etc.
It boils down to the fact that if you’re going to put yourself into a situation where your chances of stacking are significantly higher than the norm then it’s better to lose the ski(s) whilst in control than to be at the arbitrary mercy of gravity and gradient when you’re in free-fall!
I’ve an idea that many of you are reading your DIN recommendations off a standardized chart or simply accepting the word of the hire shop. I’d really like to hear from anyone who has any empirical evidence, for or against, to support the DIN setting you consider your correct one.
For background,
Male
50
Ht. 5.9
Wt. 195Kg
BMI. 20.5 (heavy but not a lardarse)
Fitness. Anerobic good, Aerobic, poor (old lung injury)
Recommended DIN 8.5-10.5
My thought is, while we’re on piste or in park and learning techniques, we should back-off the recommended DIN setting by 2 points.
Your thoughts, with evidence please.
Mark: Motocross pants are the perfect option for dry-slopes, padded and ventilated.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Masque, Are you really 195Kg. I make that over 30 stone which for 5 9 is definitely a lardarse!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Mark - Wycombe are planning a major redevelopment. It may be worth checking out what is going on there before you make too many plans. Not sure where else around that area you could go to as there isn't much around that matches the facilities that Wycombe currently have.
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| As Chris Reed notes, Masque wrote: |
Ht. 5.9
Wt. 195Kg
BMI. 20.5 (heavy but not a lardarse) |
and these figures dont make sense. I love a little maths in the morning, so I thought I would try and work out what masque's weight actually is. If the BMI is right masque's weight is 62.8kg, or about 138lb, and my first hunch hits the deck: I thought the weight was actually lb rather than kg.
Then I tried all combinations of 5.9 and 195, squared and not squared, but I have not managed to get 20.5
| But masque also wrote: |
| heavy but not a lardarse |
which suggests the BMI figure is wrong. So I suggest masque's weight is actually 195lb (88.5kg) and height 5ft 9ins, so his BMI is 28.8.
(If height actually 5.9ft (5ft 11in) BMI is 27.2)
How did I do?
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You know it makes sense.
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This is a bit like guess the weight of the cake at the village fete.
A BMI of 20.5 would be ideal, therefore, my guess is that Masque is 95kg with BMI 30.5.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Blimey, you finish work, go home and come back the next day and there's a whole raft of stuff! Seriously though, this info is very much appreciated - my grateful thanks.
The DIN recommended by the chart at the Nike slope was 4.5 and I popped out a couple of times (but that's another story ). So I'll crank things up a tad next time out.
Martin Bell, welcome to snowHeads and yes, I would be interested in learning some more about the camp you run/are involved with. Thanks.
I have the 'photographic evidence of Masque's streamline shape to put an end to the speculation and will send it to D G Orf for publication! (excuse my pooter illiteracy). Thanks for the tip on the motorcross pants Masque - I'm in your part of the world this weekend BTW at Great Hockham in Norfolk.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So, now i know what to look for at Bracknell
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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How close were you to getting your 'flèche d'argent', Mark?.... 36 racers in front of you, April.... course had cut up a bit? Take it you weren't seeded (you hadn't done a flèche before)......
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Mark was a lot closer than Masque!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Definitely the Men In Black.
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David, did the Ice Queen's 'photos ever surface? Or those outside the Rizi?
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Mark, they're on a memory stick which Masque left in the chalet. He's going out to La Ros next month, so provided he remembers we should see them before too long.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sorry folks been out of the loop for a few days getting my Achilles sewn back onto my leg, part of the reason for the dfn in the Fletch and yes it's 95Kilo and since my brain was in my butt for that last post BMI was 30 not 20 it's my body fat % that's 20. sorry for the confusion. Still like to know more opinions re recommended DIN settings against the learning experience.
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Sorry to hear about the injury. Didn't realise it was quite so serious. Still able to get out to France this month?
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FAQ
