 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
For a skiing example from this week, broken tibula and fibula (sadly a classic ski injury which will happen often during the season) which needed pinning at the regional hospital with piste rescue, ambulance to the hospital, surgical procedure, a 4 day stay and post-procedure medication cost close to €6,000. Double-checking your insurance coverage seems like a sensible thing to do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Very sad but I am confused? She is clearly abroad but they keep saying her "medical insurance" expired a few weeks before? Surely that wouldn't cover repatriation costs? Also the medical insurance I have had in the past was a rolling monthly payment ok did have annual price reviews but I thought that was normal, it took a very special effort yo cancel it when it got cut when we needed to cut down our household expenses.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@NickyJ, I'm guessing they want to repatriate to avoid more costs. If she had insurance they would all be covered and repatriation would be less essential?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| For a skiing example from this week, broken tibula and fibula (sadly a classic ski injury which will happen often during the season) which needed pinning at the regional hospital with piste rescue, ambulance to the hospital, surgical procedure, a 4 day stay and post-procedure medication cost close to €6,000. |
The odd thing is that most policies seems to insist on the holder having a EHIC card which suggests the insurance company will insist on your using the state medical services. If that's the case what you are paying for is rescue and emergency repatriation (and of course 3rd party liability Insurance).
The second can be covered with your car breakdown cover via ADAC, the former with insurance from the ticket office.*
My current frustration with insurance is that you never quite know how it's going to work out if you need to claim.
* I still hold winter sports insurance, but I do wonder....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Big difference between holiday travel insurance and expat travel insurance, my insurance is invalid after 21 consecutive days. For hers to "run out" I suspect it was just an annual holiday policy. If I was working in Egypt I would make sure I had suitable insurance, and if I rode horses I would make sure that was included.
I feel for her and it must be horrible but this is what insurance is about.
I always take insurance out when skiing, not rely on crowd funding should it go wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| For a skiing example from this week, broken tibula and fibula (sadly a classic ski injury which will happen often during the season) which needed pinning at the regional hospital with piste rescue, ambulance to the hospital, surgical procedure, a 4 day stay and post-procedure medication cost close to €6,000. Double-checking your insurance coverage seems like a sensible thing to do. |
Surprised it was that cheap tbh. My father in law was due to have a heart valve replacement here in Munich, but due to some administrative cockup the Austrian medical insurance had not got in touch with the heart center here... Long story short they said we either a) hand over €40K right now, b) get the Austrians to hand over €40K or c) go home.
We got it sorted in the end!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
most policies seems to insist on the holder having a EHIC card
|
I don't think they insist, but excess is sometimes reduced if you do. They certainly don't insist on using state medical services - where did you get that idea from? The resort medical cabinets are often private - when I had a fractured pelvis I didn't go anywhere near a state facility. My insurance would have repatriated me, but not my car. I wanted to stay in my apartment anyway, which was easier than home would have been, so they were happy, within the cost of repatriating me, to pay for my sister and brother in law to fly out and drive me home 3 weeks later. They queried why two drivers were needed but accepted that with only one driver an overnight stop would have been needed.
The car breakdown insurance I've got wouldn't pay to get me and my car home if the car was in good form but I had a broken leg and couldn't drive it. But maybe the ADAC plan is more generous than that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
The following is a breakdown of the costs associated with a fall my wife had from a chairlift resulting in a fractured pelvis.
We are insured with LV= and we had been in contact with the LV= emergency helpline from very early on and they were very supportive right from the start, taking care of the rescue costs directly and giving the hospital confirmation that they would cover costs.
LV= outsource their medical assistance and repatriation and claim services to a specialist company, CEGA group, who very efficiently arranged my wife's repatriation via private ambulance to Geneva airport followed by private air ambulance back to the U.K. and then private ambulance to our local hospital.
On our return our claim has been dealt with quickly and sympathetically with payment in full for all aspects of our claim within 2 weeks of submitting it.
Morzine Piste Rescue € 595
Les Gets Medical centre Doctor's fees and X-rays € 137
Ambulance transfer from Les Gets to hospital € 380
5 days hospital at €1,250 per day € 6,250
Scan and X-rays at hospital € 500
Ambulance from hospital to Geneva airport
Private air ambulance from Geneva to UK £ 25,000
Ambulance transfer from UK airport to local hospital.
The EHIC covered 80% of the hospital fees and the insurance company have covered the rest.
LV= have also covered the cost of unused lift passes, accommodation, additional hotel costs for my drive home and have waived the excess on the medical expenses part of the claim because I made sure that the hospital recorded the EHIC details.
The whole experience was extremely traumatic but was helped tremendously by the care and support given by LV= and CEGA
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
That's a useful - and sobering - breakdown, @Timc. LV seem to get a lot of good reports. Your wife's fracture was clearly much nastier than mine, which wasn't displaced and cost my insurance company very little!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@Timc, Cheers for that. Nice to hear LV did a good job.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
@Timc, Pleased that LV were so good. We switched to them this year. Hopefully your wife has made a good recovery.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@pam w, Reading the small print, they do seem to insist on the EHIC.
I know it came as a shock in January when we realised ours ran out in the Summer, and I'd already done a weeks technical training in the Autumn....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
most policies seems to insist on the holder having a EHIC card
|
I don't think they insist, but excess is sometimes reduced if you do. They certainly don't insist on using state medical services - where did you get that idea from? The resort medical cabinets are often private - when I had a fractured pelvis I didn't go anywhere near a state facility. My insurance would have repatriated me, but not my car. I wanted to stay in my apartment anyway, which was easier than home would have been, so they were happy, within the cost of repatriating me, to pay for my sister and brother in law to fly out and drive me home 3 weeks later. They queried why two drivers were needed but accepted that with only one driver an overnight stop would have been needed.
The car breakdown insurance I've got wouldn't pay to get me and my car home if the car was in good form but I had a broken leg and couldn't drive it. But maybe the ADAC plan is more generous than that. |
Some do insist on you going the EHIC route as much as possible, I know that was definitely the case when I broke my ankle and claimed with MPI. Had they covered private, the clinic would've operated and pinned my ankle that day, but as it wasn't covered, I would either have had to wait for an op down in Landeck, or just had a cast put on to wait (the Austrian docs gave me a choice). Ended up being repatriated as I was working for a UK TO at the time, so then went NHS (just a cast, no op, consultant said it wasn't worth the risks as it would heal itself).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@pam w, Thanks, yes, the initial diagnosis in Les Gets was 2 fractures to the pelvis and possible damage to the coccyx. The diagnosis in Centre Hospitaliers Alpes Leman was no damage to the coccyx but 3 fractures to the pelvis, 2 on one side and one on the other, non-displaced but not stable and requiring an operation to stabilise the pelvis. Her discharge letter detailed the 3 fractures and their position and stated that she was fit to travel either by road or air lying flat on her back but that she didn't need an operation.
Our command of the French language, especially medical terms improved tremendously over those few days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@Timc, how did she fall off the chairlift? Was it on arrival at the top.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@Pamski, Yes, we don't know why but for some reason she was unable to leave the chair. As the chair went round the end pulley her legs caught the emergency stop cable which caused the chair to stop suddenly with enough force to tip her off the chair on to the ice and frozen snow about 2 metres below.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@Timc, what a nightmare! Good job your insurance came up trumps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Having done a fair amount of research recently looking at all the main providers, I don't think I came across any that didn't make it clear that you should use state/public medical services where possible rather than private and that payment for private treatment needed pre- authorisation. Here's the wording from the Ski Club policy:
"If you need to see a doctor ask your hotel reception or tour representative for the nearest public/state medical facility. Some hotels will urge you to seek private treatment, however this is not necessary, private medical facilities vary greatly and are not equipped to deal with all emergencies, they may give you unnecessary treatment and at inflated prices if you are ever in doubt please call the assistance team for advice on where to seek treatment. In Europe you should show them your EHIC card, medical treatment will be free or at a reduced cost and you will not be required to contribute towards the claim as the standard policy excess will be reduced to NIL (increased excesses applied to declared conditions will still be required to be paid, if related to the cause of you requiring medical treatment). You will only be covered for the cost of private treatment if this is approved in advance by Emergency Assistance Facilities.
".
I'm not picking in the Ski Club policy, it seems typical of what the other companies say.
I've been treated twice at in-resort private medical treatment centres over the years and in both instances got clearance from my insurance company beforehand. As there was no other state alternatives, they paid up without any issues.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| AndAnotherThing.. wrote: |
| The odd thing is that most policies seems to insist on the holder having a EHIC card which suggests the insurance company will insist on your using the state medical services. If that's the case what you are paying for is rescue and emergency repatriation (and of course 3rd party liability Insurance) |
But you don't always have a choice of using state or private medical facilities. I think that most in-resort medical centres, which deal with relatively minor injuries, simple fractures, etc, are private and do not accept EHIC cards for payment. More serious injuries can be taken to local or regional hospitals, which are state-funded and with an EHIC card you would pay the same as a local resident. In this particular case if the injured skier had been entitled to an EHIC card (he isn't) the bill would have been reduced from about €5,000 to €80. Moral of the tale seems to be make sure you keep your EHIC card up-to-date, and preferably carry it with you alongside you liftpass.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
My injury happened in the early evening (not skiing). I was automatically taken to a private clinic ...the nearest facility...the doctor called the insurance and very easily persuaded them that I needed surgery potentially that evening, but the next day as it turned out...5 days private clinic authorised in 5 mins. I am eternally grateful. At the same time another snowhead suffered the same injury in the UK in a cycling accident (TPF) and had to wait days for her op.
edit: I phoned my insurance as soon as the on call doctor told me he had called an ambulance...I had broken my leg but had no idea ...it just felt a bit odd. When I told him I couldn't stand on it he must have figured it out
Last edited by After all it is free  on Fri 22-04-16 21:58; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Gaza, Pisteur with sledge behind skidoo and then downhill with just the pisteur. Not far really, if you know the area, skidoo tow from the end of the Belvedere chair to Pleney then down piste B to the car park on the left hand side followed by ambulance back to Les Gets.
| Quote: |
But you don't always have a choice of using state or private medical facilities
|
Absolutely correct, but the key to all the small print seems to be get in touch with your insurance company' s emergency helpline as soon as possible and keep them updated at every stage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@Timc, yikes - poor thing. We have always had to pay upfront at the Les Gets med centre and then done a bit of claiming back from travel insurance and sometimes a bit came back from the EHIC too. When our grand-daughter spent just over 24 hours in Thonon hospital when she was just four months old, very worrying, I think our daughter said that the bill was around 1000 euros, and as she had an EHIC card for Maggie that covered 800 euros and she had to pay the balance of 200 euros, and then claimed that back from MPI. There must also have been a bill from the med centre in Les Gets too, as they saw her first and sent them down to Thonon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Pamski, Les Gets med centre and the ambulance transfer to CHAL were the only items that I had to pay for up front, LV got in contact with Morzine piste rescue and CHAL and guaranteed payment direct. CHAL gave the impression that they didn't want or need the EHIC, almost as though they couldn't be bothered to split their invoicing 80/20. LV organised and paid for everything else.
By the way not impressed by CHAL and their shiny new hospital.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
@Timc I was taken off the mountain by a mix of skidoo and pisteur then ambulance to Courchevel 1650 back in 2010 and it cost me 500euro, so it's not unusual. I paid and reclaimed from the insurance co.
I also broke a bone in my hand back in 2009 and the hospital overnight stay and operation to pin it was 5000 euro reduced to 50 when I gave them an EHIC number after returning to the UK.
A note on the EHIC, I didn't have one at the time and when I contacted the DWP I was told that being entitled was enough and that once issued the number could be used retrospectively. As soon as I had the number I sent it to the hospital and they sent a revised bill. The 50 was paid by the insurance company without question.
Slightly different question will the EHIC still be available if we leave the EU or will insurance go up to cover the increased cost of hospital treatment?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
will the EHIC still be available if we leave the EU or will insurance go up to cover the increased cost of hospital treatment?
|
the EHIC card probably wouldn't be available, as it's just an EU thing. Though of course, amongst all the other international negotiations the Brexiters plan, bilateral health arrangements might be on the list somewhere. However, I don't think insurance premiums differentiate between EU members and other European countries, do they?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@Gaza, when my daughter was injured on the piste in Megeve at half term, the most expensive part was the (albeit excellent and reassuring, she even went off and came back with a pack of sweets for my daughter) pisteur, a bill of 427 euros came from the st gervais marie a couple of weeks later, on the same invoice the bill for the ambulance from bettex to st gervais was 160 euros. I could not work out how the pisteur was 2 and a half times more than an ambulance and crew of 2!!.
Although, I was glad that all the previous scare stories that I had read on about not having carre neige and being marched to a cash point to pay for services, were unfounded my wife did not even have to show any proof of address or insurance, they just took our details down and forwarded invoice later, which we sent on to our insurance provider (Top Dog) who paid out directly.
Apart from a couple of minor hiccups, a worrying situation was dealt with efficiently by both the French medical services and our insurance company.
on the original post, surely her employer should have some form of system to help, as she worked for a hotel, and presumably a lot of expats work for them?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
The EHIC is an updated/re-badged version of the old E111 which was a European Economic Area initiative not a specific EU initiative hence its wider national coverage. I can only speculate that this would mean it could continue in the event of Brexit but I don't really know. If insurance companies were no longer able to offset the cost of claims using a EHIC arrangement, then you would expect the cost of premiums might reflect this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Welshcakes wrote: |
| ... If insurance companies were no longer able to offset the cost of claims using a EHIC arrangement, then you would expect the cost of premiums might reflect this. |
I think the point is not that the small print in your insurance policy points out that it doesn't cover anything which is already free, but rather that the insurance companies play on fear an ignorance, which is what you'd expect. As far as them charging more... I think in practice their charges aren't tightly geared to their costs, which I'd guess will be more sales/ marketing/ admin based than paying for stuff (like European health care) which is free.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
will the EHIC still be available if we leave the EU or will insurance go up to cover the increased cost of hospital treatment?
|
the EHIC card probably wouldn't be available, as it's just an EU thing. Though of course, amongst all the other international negotiations the Brexiters plan, bilateral health arrangements might be on the list somewhere. However, I don't think insurance premiums differentiate between EU members and other European countries, do they? |
Brexiters seem to be very exercised about foreigners using the NHS so I can't see them easily giving away the ability to put a barrier up to EU nationals using British hospitals.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Just thought I'd add to this... A friend is currently going through a bit of a drama where a relative of his has been injured abroad. Their insurance has lapsed and they have sustained serious back injuries.
The repatriation flight alone has been quoted at £24,000. This does not include any surgery or hospital stay at that end. They're expecting that to tot up another £8,000.
If they need to take out a loan or overdraft to cover that, it'll come to even more by the time the interest is added on.
Do just bear that all in mind. Medical care abroad appears to be seriously expensive stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Gaza, you can always not take advantage of their services. You know, grit your teeth. Keep your broken lege elevated and slide down on your back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On the other hand:
Spiral Tib and Fib fracture in Verbier.
Cost of Piste Rescue: Zero
Cost of Helicopter: Zero
4 days in hospital, including pinning, all care, some physio: chf92 = £60
All I needed was to show my lift pass that had insurance, and then my EHIC card.
I do mean "just show", there was zero admin to contend with at all after that.
Cost of rescheduling Easyjet flights and getting a line of three seats reserved for my leg: Zero
Easyjet could not have been more helpful.
We never bother with holiday insurance in Switzerland....I can see no practical value at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@rungsp, well, I guess as long as you don't have a catastrophic injury that needs an air ambulance home, or you and your family are prepared to stay in switzerland indefinitely, then fair enough. Would the Swiss let you remain in hospital indefinitely or would they expect you to be repatriated at some point?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@holidayloverxx, two more examples:
Friend 1, on holiday in Verbier went to see the Doctor with a nasty cough.
Cost, with EHIC, 92chf.
Diagnosis...all escaleted very fast was serious lung cancer. The Swiss hospital gave him the choice of taking the diagnosos home and getting treated in the UK or immediate (and I do mean immediate, starting within an hour) double radio/chemo.
He made some calls and was told it would take at minimum of a montyh, more like six weeks, to get going in the UK. He started off in Switz.
Friend 2: Major crash into tree. Punctuered lung, nearli died. Other spleen and pelvic fractures.
In hospital for 5 weeks, several operations.
Offered option of flying home by air ambulance...but an option, not a requirement.
He was very happy with Swiss treatment and stayed in Switz.
Because the hospital stay spanned two calender months he had to pay 2x92chf.
I've never met him but I did hear from the Doctor of another tourist who had an emergency triple heart bypass in Sion, cost....drum roll....92chf.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
