 Poster: A snowHead
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Zero-G, sympathy for the pain, and glad you're getting the operation soon. What surgeon are you seeing?
Update from me: largely a pain free season, the first for several years. Had to manage my feet better than before, making sure I didn't ski through the early stages of pain, but this seemed to work out OK. Biggest improvement has come from being more centered in my boots, avoiding any excessive forefoot pressure in the first half of the turn. As a result I only had two days when the pain became unbearable, so I'm really happy with that. Will play around with footbeds over the summer to see if that improves things even more. Glad I don't have to go under the knife...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, will PM you with the surgeon's name.
Yoour situation sounds promising! I think I just let mine go on for too long before doing anything about it. This all started a little before the spinal injury two years ago but then I had to contend with the spinal surgery, which was a larger issue, so I politely ignored the foot pain. I only saw the foot surgeon and then a podiatrist in August last year, so it was already quite bad by then.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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OK, MN experts out there; could this be MN (obviously I'll go to my GP if i think it is but I'm wanting a degree of confidence before i go asking for an US):
Pain/dumbness in my third & four toe. Started several years ago after boot change. Initially only painful as i removed the boot at the end of the ski day, bending the foot to exit the boot caused extreme pain lasting for say 10 secs. Steadily over say 2 years pain started to hang around after a ski trip for a few days. Started to inhibit my ability to flex the foot and run at any point in the year. Seems to be exacerbated by a day walking in sandals. Occasionally whilst ski i experience an acute 'electric shock' type feeling in the foot, otherwise not really an issue whilst actually skiing. Sat here at my desk now the third and fourth toes are numb and can be made to hurt by squeezing the foot (top to bottom) in the area behind and between the toes. Symptoms are quite mild at the moment as due to duffing my knee in Jan i haven't skied that much in the last 12 months
Strapping the toes (suggested by a podiatrist, from sole, between toes to top of foot) to augment the ligaments/tendons seems to mitigate the symptoms.
Both CEM & John (ex Sole) have suggested MN but the podiatrist seemed to believe it was weak tendons and rolling a dryer ball around under my foot (and picking it up with my toes) would do the trick (it didn't).
Knee's on the mend, don't want the foot holding me back in 13/14.
Thoughts?
Thanks
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midgetbiker, could be. Some of your symptoms are the same as mine, some different. The pain and numbness is in the right place for MN and the acute electric shock type pains, I get too. And also that it manifests itself in ski boots and when running. Try squeezing the foot side to side, that should hurt and you might hear/feel a click. I would try to see a foot and ankle orthopod and get a scan (quick and easy ultrasound), then you'll know for sure. If CEM thinks it could be then it warrants further investigation as he's seen a fair few SHs with MN now! Good luck 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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midgetbiker, sounds exactly what I had, started after wearing some too small shoes. Finally sorted by Large Zoo Keeper in Chamonix when he modded a footbed, he created a marble sized lump right under the painful area, sorted.
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midgetbiker, I'm no doctor but have suffered MN.....no doubt in my mind you have MN.
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My next udpate:
I had surgery in May. The neuroma was just too big for cryosurgery to be effective and there was a suspected issue with a bursa too.
It was a day procedure – had the surgery around 2pm and was despatched home at 8pm, clutching bags of codeine, paracetamol and ibuprofen (plus a prescription for morphine should the pain prove too much).
About an hour before surgery, the surgeon popped round to mark my foot. Just a gentle reminder to himself:
In the pre-op room, they put a tourniquet around my upper thigh, which was a tad concerning. I reminded them that I was in for a small procedure on my foot and that, under no circumstances, was the entire limb to be removed 
The anaesthesiologist told me that it wasn't a particularly painful procedure but he would also give me an anaesthetic block (local anaesthetic injected directly into the surgical site while the foot was open), which would last about 12 hours. The bastard has obviously never had a nerve amputated because it was more painful than spinal sugery by miles!
First night home, I was totally zonked from the general anaesthetic and pretty much went straight to bed. Woke up around 2.30am with indescribable pain, which, I suppose, is when the aneasthetic block wore off. I necked two codeine, two paracetamol and an ibuprofen and endured 30 minutes of agony waiting for them to take effect. The pain was so bad that I was sweating and felt like throwing up. At one point, I was screaming into my pillow.
The pain was really bad for the first 4-5 days. I remember watching the minutes tick by, willing the clock to speed up so that I could take the next batch of painkillers. I definitely exceeded the prescribed dosage in those early days but never did have the morphine prescription filled (rule 5 and all that).
Two days post-surgery. Fitzwilliams had coated my foot in iodine, which was a lovely look combined with the über stylish surgical sandal.
The post-op protocol is to keep your foot raised (above heart-height) for at least two weeks, which I did, religiously, all day, every day, for two weeks. The more you keep the foot raised, the quicker the swelling reduces and the faster the wound heals. My foot was completely bound in bandages from toes to above my ankle and I had to use a giant condom-type device to keep the dressing dry in the shower.
I spent those first two weeks negotiating my way around the flat on crutches, which is very tiring. I now have huge sympathy for people who break their legs and have to spend 6 weeks on crutches. Around the two-week mark, I was able to ditch one crutch and put a tiny bit of weight on the foot, though it wasn't pleasant.
These are a couple of my posts in the bar during that time:
| Zero-G wrote: |
| Have become a bag lady inside my own home, having to use shopping bags hooked to the handles of my crutches to transport things around the flat (coffee flask, water bottle, iPad, phone, pillows, etc.) as I follow the sun around the windows. |
| Zero-G wrote: |
| The logistics of moving no less than seven pillows from the bed to the chaise and back again each day, using crutches, was a tad daunting at first. I've developed a system using climbing slings and carabiners to carry three pillows at a time across my back while crutching between the rooms. Sherpas have nothing on me. Ninja turtles have nothing on me. |
Just after two weeks, I had a follow-up with the the surgeon to have the bandages removed and the dressing changed. The surgeon was very pleased, said he could tell I had kept the foot up because it was almost back to normal size. I was a bit shocked at how much bruising there was though: almost the entire top of my foot was bruised and a small section underneath (the photos don't do it justice). The bruising around the toes was quite dramatic. Added to which, the skin that had been covered by the iodine and bandages was all papery and wrinkled. I slathered that foot in pure coconut oil for weeks to get the skin back to normal.
Two weeks post-surgery
After that thick layer of bandages had been removed, I was back to being on two crutches again for a few days – without the padding it was too painful to put my foot down. By this point, I had stopped taking codeine but was back on it again for about 3 days while I adjusted to a foot without bandage padding.
This was at three weeks post-surgery, when the dressing came off permanently. Couldn't believe that tiny little wound had caused so much pain!
About 6 weeks after the surgery, I had virtually no pain in my foot for the first time in a couple of years. It was wonderful. But that only lasted a couple of weeks, at which point I started to feel some nerve pain just like I had pre-surgery, although nowhere near as severe.
I had a final follow-up with the surgeon two months after the surgery. Everything had healed well but there was permanent pain, although still not anything as bad as before the surgery. I could at least walk normally without twisting my foot and I could put full weight on it. The surgeon said it's a stump neuroma and advised me to massage the foot regularly and keep everything loose.
So, five months later and I still have that mild pain. Thankfully, it never worsened and I can definitely live with it. Two of my toes are completely numb, along with the skin under my foot (an area about 3 inches in diametre). If I tap lightly on a small area on the underside my foot (roughly the same area where you see bruising on the underside of my foot in the photo above), I get this weird electric shock sensation.
Five months post-surgery
I've been back to the podiatrist and have new orthotics with a more localised nubbin to separate the metatarsals around the site of the amputated nerve. This should help to prevent any more scarring. The most important thing, however, is that I can put full weight on my foot when walking and I place my foot normally for each step (no more twisting the foot oddly to keep weight off the painful part).
Of course, the proof will be in the skiing this coming season. I'm due new boots, so am heading to Cham to be fitted by CH2O at Sole. I hope the Sole boys are feeling strong because I suspect it's going to be a long day 
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Zero-G, Great update, thanks for letting us know how you got on 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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holidayloverxx, nothing compared to your impressive injury (and even more impressive recovery) but I know how much snowHeads love a bit of injury porn
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Princess?, wow, what an ordeal. I hope the end result is worth all that pain!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Having been referred for scan and possible injection a few weeks ago I was surprised to get an appointment this Wednesday. I'm not bothered by injections though some of the after effects sound a bit unpleasant. But there is no suggestion that it can make things worse, so I 'll give it a go if that's what the guy recommends.
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You know it makes sense.
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I just had two areas injected - the doc said there was one between the 3rd and 4th and one between the 1st and 2nd, and he did them both. So, fingers crossed it'll do the trick. He said there was a 70 - 80% success rate but it took a couple of weeks, during which I should try not to do much walking. I know they've been there a long time, which probably doesn't help the success rate.
I won't be putting any pictures of my horrible feet on the thread. Zero G has lovely feet!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@pam w, fingers crossed for you How was it? Mine throbbed and were sore when the LA wore off, felt bruised and like walking on a stone for a day or two. But it did seem to do the trick.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@sarah, thanks. Either the anaesthetic hasn't worn off yet, or it isn't going to hurt, or the liberal dose of Sauvignon Blanc (taken internally not topically) has done the trick.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@pam w,  hope you have another bottle ready for tomorrow then!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@sarah, I've got plenty of pain killers, including some rather fierce ones including opium which I was given, but didn't need, when I fractured my pelvis. It was surprisingly unpainful, provided I stayed still!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@pam w, how's the recovery? Are they settling down?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@sarah, yes, my foot was a little sore for a bit after the injections (just like a very mild neuroma pain, nothing like the acute pain which means taking a boot off and massaging foot). That is almost gone now. I was running on a treadmill for a bit yesterday with no problem.
But mine only flared up badly occasionally anyway (though ironically it was v sore when I arrived at the hospital for the injections, having been walking round Chichester all day) so it'll be a while before I know whether the injections have solved the problem. He said it would take a few weeks to work.
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pam w, it's been just over month since you had the cortisone, have you seen an improvement? The budding neuroma in my right foot is getting worse, so I've proven that the orthotic hasn't prevented its growth (though probably reduced the speed of growth). I suppose my next step is to try cortisone again or go straight for the cryo treatment. Anything to avoid surgery again.
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@Zero_G, sympathies 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Zero_G, maybe look into that other injection therapy, think it might be some type of alcohol injection into the neuroma, think CEM has mentioned it before.
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I did but decided against sclerosant injection treatment because it has a lower rate of longterm pain reduction and higher morbidity in comparison with the other treatments.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Zero_G, oh dear. Maybe the cryo then? Hope you don't have to resort to the op again. It looked truly dreadful. Mine have been behaving for a while now thankfully.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Zero_G, mine has been Ok though I haven't really put it to the test. It only got bad after a lot of walking. This morning I was walking in walking boots on snowshoes for about an hour and a half and it was fine but it probably would have been anyway. So the jury is out till I do a longer expedition.
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I am very glad that my mn isn't nearly as bad as everyone on here.
For anyone reading this with a less serious case, I found that proper orthotics with the 'Mortons lumps' on them sorted me out. I used to get up in the mornings and hobble for a while with sore toes; whenever I went hill walking going down the hills was agony with burning in my toes; when I stood around teaching in my ski boots my toes would burn, but it was mostly ok when I actually skied. I do remember one occasion stood at the top of our nursery slope teaching when I actually had to take my boot off mid lesson because my toes were so painful (dry ski slope, so not as cold and wet as it could have been). SInce I have had the footbeds I now sometimes get pain when walking back down serious hills, and sometimes in the summer when I've been wearing sandals too much without the footbeds. I live in trainers, so the footbeds are always in my shoes, and I have a second pair that live in my ski boots. They were made for me by a guy called Graham Mann who is based in Dorking. He wasn't cheap mind!
I did have a couple of injections, which I hated having, but whilst they worked for a short while the effect wore off quite quickly. When I first got the footbeds they were extremely uncomfortable because of the lumps, but after a few days I got used to them. Now no-one nicks my trainers cos they're too uncomfortable for anyone else!
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You know it makes sense.
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I spent much longer in my walking boots a few days ago. I did get the pain but it took longer to start and died down better. When I had the injections the doctor said there were two areas. I suspect one injection worked and the other didn't. When I am back in the UK I will ask my GP to try to arrange another appointment. So, for me, a partial success so far.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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My main problem was when wearing ski boots, espeically after two hours the pain was unbearable and had to take boots off and masseage foot for 30 minutes. .. eventually the pain was there when wearing normal shoes, so had two injections, must say that neither had a long term positive effect.
so ended up with the silicon foot pads that are on ebay for a couple of quid each... worked really well when wearing day shoes, but a bit tight in ski boots, so changed boot footbeds and now can ski all day without any problem..
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Poster: A snowHead
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I suffer from Morton's and I'm very concerned about having an operation. I found this site that sounds helpful: www.mortonsneuroma.com
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Guys,
Sorry to hear about all of your nueromas! I had mine chopped out the week before Christmas. My personal experience of the surgery was really positive!
I had one nuroma between the 3rd & 4th metatarsals - seems to be a common one! I had the surgery privately and under general anasthetic. Experience was very similar to the one detailed above. I was walking without aids within a week, and back to normal shoes within 2 weeks. Bruising went down fully within a couple of weeks, and 8 weeks on I have no real pain from the operation. I have yet to run on it or ski on it, but signs are good and I'll find out about the ski within 2 weeks.
For those of you scared of the surgery, assuming the skiing works out, it is the best thing I did. Its a couple of weeks of incovinience after 5+ years of really painful skiing. I wish I'd done it sooner.
Clearly I might have been very lucky, but my experience was nowhere near some of the horror stories you hear on the internet!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Oh, and I tried one injection, which actually seemed to make the problem worse!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Shawsy - how was skiing 10 weeks after MN op? Doable or a no go? i'm in the same situation as you. Just had the op and feet in the air, but the Chalet is all booked for 11 weeks time.
Would be interested to hear how it panned out for you.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hmmm. On the basis Shawsy hasn't updated in the period since 2015.... he may not have been skiing.... hope your op goes ok... please do report back. My MN is 'stable', and I've just learned to shut out the pain when skiing.... had a meniscal bursa on a nearby toe since, which came and went over the summer... middle age sucks!
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Mrs t_m had her MN operated on about 10 years ago. It never came back.
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Have been struggling with MN for a few years in my hockey skates and now in my ski boots. I have very high rigid arches and need serious metatarsal supports. 3 sets of insoles and pads later I think I finally have the right combo. I think I will fork out the money for actual orthotics soon. The pads have made a difference not only with my ball of foot pain but also has raised the metatarsal arch enough to give me a wee bit more toe room in my boots which is awesome! From pain to YAY!!
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I have had a MN in my left foot - diagnosed maybe 6-7 years ago but wasn't serious enough to warrant surgery so I just left it and I put up with the occasional discomfort (mostly when wearing climbing shoes).
I was not prepared to pay for cryosurgery (the private option at the time).
I had a bad flare up earlier this year and took a look at the NHS website - https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/mortons-neuroma/
They now list a non invasive procedure called radio frequency ablation.
As such I have gone back to have it assessed again...am currently waiting for a follow up appointment after a scan a few months back...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@sheffskibod, Do you have a link to the radio frequency treatment? I’m also in Sheffield and a climber, Mrs On the rocks suffers from MN when skiing. Thanks
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| On the rocks wrote: |
| @sheffskibod, Do you have a link to the radio frequency treatment? I’m also in Sheffield and a climber, Mrs On the rocks suffers from MN when skiing. Thanks |
It just lists it under treatments on the NHS website …
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/mortons-neuroma/
Certainly was not an option when I was diagnosed. Then it was injection or surgery - both came with complications (and with surgery , a period of recuperation).
Been a while since my ultrasound … I guess very low priority at the moment.
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FAQ
