(Edit on return: This is no longer live, but was written and posted in real time).
Brace yourself because this is going to get goofy.
Days 1 and 2
Synopsis: Observations on Tignes (Day 6 edit: and Sainte-Foy-Tarentaise) in December 2023; a now-annual pre-Xmas trip with the Lads, but this time with added snowboarding.
Tourists: Dad (that’s me), Lad 2 (17) and Lad 3 (15). Lad 2 is a near expert skier. Lad 3 is coming on strong. Dad, well, he’s not bad for someone who took up skiing in his late 30s with little natural talent, but he has an enormous capacity for suffering, and has developed a frankly concerning addiction for relentlessly pursuing new and fantastically difficult hobbies in his late 40s (his golf coach is weeping, but drying his tears with high-denomination banknotes).
Background: As detailed here, at the end of last season, Lad 2 and I announced that we had “completed” () skiing after having accomplished the Escapade in the 3Vs, and in the interests of being more sociable with the massive (17 pax) syndicate we normally go on UK half term with (rather than me and Lad 2 going off by ourselves all the time) and following a viewing of the greatest achievement in cinematic arts, Apocalypse Snow, we were going to deliberately handicap ourselves and switch to the dark side. But we had a secret (narrator: this was not very secret) plan, to become better snowboarders that the one-week-a-year contingent were skiers. Yes, we are unrealistic (some of us), yes, we are very silly, and yes, we have padded pants. We carefully monitored the snow forecasts, considered the 4Vs where we had been before, would have liked the 3Vs—but given the variability of December’s weather, and not really relishing the idea of basing ourselves in Val Thoren (we are Méribel/La Tania partisans)—after @stevomcd reached out, basically promising to deal all aspects, we decided to roll the dice and go high in the Tarentaise.
Logistics: DIY all the way. We bought BA LHR-GVA flights back in March at an OK price. Transfers were crazy expensive, best I could do from a no-name outfit for a private round trip transfer was €780, so we went with Ben’s Bus for €341 return for the three of us. Ben’s Bus was fine. Left on time at 1245 (our 1125 arrival was just good enough, but we had to sprint having needed to check luggage), got into Tignes le Lac at 1605, which was quicker than expected. No toilets on the bus, no stopping “except for emergencies”, and no drinking, keep that in mind. Lift passes look cheaper than the 3Vs, and have a handy youth discount, but these have not yet been required as I’m still on the free lifts .
Accommodation: Accommodation in Tignes le Lac via AirBnB (a 2BR/1BA that is sort of ride-out for c. €1,200 for the week, plus €75 for linens). The Montana Granier is near the TS ALMES. As of this writing, I am not a good enough rider to actually ride to base at Madison Tignes le Lac, but Lads were on it from day 2. Dodgy Wi-Fi. Cramped boot locker. But OK in the round. Our accommodation was next to a Spar, where we got necessaries, and a couple of dinners. The telly happily accommodated the Nintendo Switch.
Kit: Kit hire from Tignes Spirit for about €470 for the three of us (boots and snowboards) for the week. They are about as far as possible away from our accommodation and still in Tignes le Lac, which was a bit of a faff (a c. 20m schlep with about 200m of up and down vertical, or 8m on the (free) bus). They did massively upgrade the Lads’ bindings on demand—see below—with pickup and delivery to our door during the course of Monday night.
Lessons: We booked full week lessons (6 days, all day) from @stevomcd for a more than fair price (I will respect his commercial confidentiality but was prepared to spend more). And this is the tale I need to tell to experienced skiers: We had no real prior experience and snowboarding is hard. Really hard. I could go on and on about various quality-of-life improvements that could be made: doing up bindings is diabolical, even if you learn to do them from a standing position (which you really need to do if you are >20yo), there are 4 bindings that need to be individually done up that seriously get in the way of each other and your (admittedly lusciously comfortable) boots; you spend a lot of time with your quads screaming while not going anywhere, and omfg, you need padded pants and knee pads: no poles means you are at the total mercy of the slope when stopped. But QOL aside, you only have 2 control surfaces (edges) compared to the 4 with skiing, and every bit of laziness you can get away with on skis is ruthlessly exposed on a board: a little bit in the back seat = crash; a little bit relying on strength rather than technique = crash; a little bit trying to traverse (nb: the nose is not pointing where you think it is) and manoeuvre to avoid a flocon = crash; a little bit insufficient knee or ankle flexion = crash; downhill edge = giant crash. Steering the board is really not at all intuitive (for reasonable skiers) because your edges are perpendicular to the direction they should be and you don’t have the crutch of an independent second control surface or pointy sticks to keep you upright. Télésièges and Poma buttons need some technique, but they can be learned on YouTube (but expect giant crashes).
None of the above applies if you are in your teens. In which case your magic reflexes, lack of self-awareness and bouncy cartilage will rescue you from most situations (although you will crash, a lot: we had to buy Lad 3 a new helmet on Day 2 ). So my plan on having a single instructor for the three of us for a week is in tatters. Lads 2 & 3 were linking beautiful turns by the afternoon of Day 2 on hard-ish blue runs (and taught to do ollies to give them something to practice while I was still holding hands with the instructor) and told to get more advanced binding set-ups (which Tignes Spirit did late at night). At the same time, I was stacking it on the “baby’s first sledge” slope next to the magic carpet, so I have hired another full time instructor for myself so that Stevo could take the Lads to do, I dunno, unpisted couloirs tomorrow (which, as a skier, I was drooling at the sight of from my balcony).
Conditions: Ace. Tignes has seen none of the rain over the past week that afflicted lower resorts and everything is white, sunny and beautiful. We may get some more precipitation later this week, but I’ll update. More crowded than I had hoped, but what do you expect on the bunny slope?
Pistes: LOLOLOLOL, I really hope to update later in the week. Will give the Lads’ report tomorrow. I did observe a really amusing yard sale + full distance inverted slide on day 1 down the allegedly black Johan Clarey visible from Rosset but I was too busy pointing the nose of my board in the air in a futile attempt to turn and slow down to really give it the appreciation it deserved.
Restaurants: Really struggling with staff shortages, get reservations and be prepared for slow service. Food is good Savoyard-style, a little cheaper than the 3Vs, but mains are still >€20 in the round.
More to come. To be fair, my linked turns to crash ratio was way higher than yesterday, but I am a loooong way from my goal.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 26-12-23 15:02; edited 3 times in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Dyrlac, hats off to you, I wouldn't fucking do it
I would definitely be on skis by now.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Fair play @Dyrlac, I do both, but my mates who are skiers wouldn't have the commitment you've got.
Tignes has seen none of the rain over the past week that afflicted lower resorts
Ummmm, I think the snowHeads on the PiPAU last week might disagree with you there!
The difference is that the rain turned back to snow mid week and there was already a significant base so the damage was limited.
Looking forward to the next update, including some chairlift action
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Dyrlac wrote:
a little bit in the back seat = crash; a little bit relying on strength rather than technique = crash; a little bit trying to traverse (nb: the nose is not pointing where you think it is) and manoeuvre to avoid a flocon = crash; a little bit insufficient knee or ankle flexion = crash; downhill edge = giant crash.
Ah, the learner's lament Fair play to you for giving it a go. My only comparable experience would be doing 'learn to ski in a day' at Tamworth, where I spent most of the day wistfully watching the snowboarders whizz by while sidestepping with these silly flappy planks attached to my torture boots. Maybe at the end of the week you can have a little ski, as a treat?
Oh, and Johan Clarey is very much a black, although you'd be surprised what you can pick your way down falling leaf-style after a couple of days on a board (not recommended btw!)
Snowboarding is still really hard, but my overall feeling of possibility (OFP*) that I will be able to do this at all has jumped from a 3.5 yesterday to a 6.25 today. Things are starting to come together for me, I’m linking turns pretty well (maoousive full piste traversed turns anyway). Spent all day lapping Digues and the TÉLÉSKI LAVACHET/TS ROSSET with my instructor Col Francies (website here), who was fantastic. While I’m still crashing a lot (kneepads are a lifesaver), at least I understand the precise movement I did wrong when that happens—gravity and physics are always there to provide firm but fair discipline so that I will remember better next time. Spending another morning with Col tomorrow to really dial things in, and then, just maybe, I might be allowed a lift pass (so very glad I did not buy these in advance).
Things which are still hard:
* toeside turns—I can do them, but they are nowhere near as composed as my heelside turns (I understand this is pretty common with novices);
* dynamically flexing my knees; I really, really want to lock them up, but that puts my centre of gravity too high (with brutal honesty, I think this is a weakness in my skiing where I am a little prone to muscling through turns with my downhill ski);
* initiating turns when the board is running flat down the fall line—I am often failing to commit to a direction, especially when I need to go toeside;
* manoeuvring to lift queues with awkward and/or congested entries; and
* standing up heelside—I find it really hard to get my centre of gravity (which has a certain rearward bias ) over the board before it scoots away.
Things that are not so bad:
* Chairlifts—I am going to regret saying this, but they’ve been pretty straightforward for me, even with a full chair of novice skiers and/or a crash in the landing zone from the chair ahead. I guess watching YouTube is useful;
* Téléski/Button lifts (only one whoopsie requiring a hike of shame to date, and some pretty good recoveries)
* Skating/scooting;
* Riding switch with intent to spin round with a single C turn followed by a falling leaf to go regular; especially useful when starting off at an awkward spot;
* Doing up bindings standing up;
* That bunny hop thing to get up a slope;
* Heelside turns.
Assume none of this will be surprising to experienced riders.
The Lads went with @stevomcd up TS PALAFOUR, TS MERLES and TS GRATTALU. A tough morning at the office for Lad 3, but he stuck in there and had a rather better afternoon. Lad 2, as expected, claims he is going to go pro having spent 15 hours riding.
Conditions: another sunny beautiful day. Maybe some snow coming on Thursday night? Insofar as it rained above 2100m last week, you’d never notice it!
Appreciate the kind words from fellow snowheads.
* OFP concept stolen from Chasing Scratch, highly recommended if you are afflicted with a golfing condition. It is out of 11, or sometimes 9
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Dyrlac, you are doing brilliantly! Thanks for the report. Keep us up to speed....... And enjoy the rest of your week.
After all it is free
After all it is free
What a brilliant report! Hats off to you for effort.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Dyrlac, good effort. Mrs Swskier and I had a similar plan in Tignes on a long weekend trip for Easter 2022.
We lasted about 1hr before taking the gear back and switching to skis
I do intend on learning to snowboard though, maybe this season it might happen.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
This simply re-inforces don't take up snowboarding ever
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Dyrlac, I'm somewhat in awe of your motivation and perseverance. If I did this I'm confident that I would last considerably less than the hour that @swskier managed.
It's not something I could imagine wanting to do, basically because I don't think I could deal with the frustration of boarding less well than I ski for as long as it would take to learn, & then (I imagine) still preferring to ski in everything except powder (perhaps if I had months rather than weeks on the slopes each year...). But that makes me all the more impressed: chapeau.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Dyrlac, loving hearing all about it.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Dyrlac, Excellent - made me laugh. I've been through this and stuck with snowboarding As you say: HARD!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
HandyHand wrote:
Oh, and Johan Clarey is very much a black, although you'd be surprised what you can pick your way down falling leaf-style after a couple of days on a board (not recommended btw!)
OK, how about in the morning of day 4? To be clear, it did not involve me. Update to come.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Day 4
Snowboarding is still hard but my OFP is currently at a 7.1. Of course that invites the question of what the possibility is that I’m tracking. If it is being able to dine out on a mad scheme of futility and pain for the rest of my snowsports career, that would be a hard 9 (downgraded from 11 only due to the possibility I give up before the end of the season, which would make for a disappointing story). If it is being able to arrive in the 3Vs in February HT as a better snowboarder than my mates are skiers (they are all reasonably experienced, but they’re one-week-a-year tourists who never take lessons), that’s probably a 7. If it’s abandoning skiing for the dark side because it is cooler (if not as elegant), well, as of today, it’s a 5.
At 11h00 on Day 4, Col allowed me to purchase a lift pass. The morning had been spent on good ole Rosset where I was linking turns with reasonable success (other than inadvertently using a downed novice rider’s board as a ramp, getting some air and resulting in a heavy crash), and a quick ride via a cat track (that I only fell on 3 times) to Tignes Spirit to replace a binding strap that couldn’t cope with the forces I was putting through the board. (Nb: big shout out to Tignes Spirit who also replaced Lad 2’s board last night after he somehow contrived to de-lam 3 square inches of the nose of his topsheet yesterday. Did I get the insurance when hiring? Ahh, no, but I’m giving the roving service guys a real workout). Up TS PALAFOUR for a couple of rides down Anémone, which felt good, but the video showed someone who was dead keen to catch his downhill toe edge (one of which resulted in a crash so hard that I saw stars). Initiating toeside turns remains a struggle except when I can “twist” the board (front toes down, rear heel down (or it might be the other way round, I dunno, I have no apparent proprioception)) into running flat from the heel edge down the fall line. On long flattish bits that don’t require much speed-scrubbing, I apparently ride switch with (relatively) more control. Go figure. Back down to Tignes le Lac for lunch at L’Escale Blanche (€€€, but I deserved it, along with a petite pression), where I learned:
@stevomcd had taken the Lads up TC TOVIERE for Creux, Edelwiess, TC MARMOTTES, and the red OK, before coming back via TS TOMMEUSES and back to Tignes le Lac by way of the black above-mentioned Johan Clarey, all the while demonstrating cool snowboarding tricks, the best, and easiest (?), being the Wizard’s Entrance (as above, it pains me to say this, but snowboarding is objectively cooler than skiing when executed with panache, which Stevo has in spades) and teaching them the rudiments of carving. (Nb: the Lads’ piste map reading is suspect at the best of times, so I’ve had to derive their routing, but it is 100% the case that they came down Johan Clarey because “downloading is for (censored)”) (narrator: the Lads have exactly as many hours on boards as your author does).
In the face of this, another afternoon with Col was warranted for me. Col is an amazing instructor, and any fellow middle-aged snowheads who want to try their hand at snowboarding would be well served by seeking him out. As soon as he saw one “turn thought” (another carryover from golf) wasn’t getting through, he was on hand with a new metaphor/turn thought related to my job, my ancestry, my foibles, whatever; eventually one would sink in, and we could move on to my next failing, which are legion. After lunch we headed back up for a lap of Anémone, and then a bus up to Val Claret, where we hit TS TICHOT, TS COL DU PALET, Signal, TS GRATTALU and Grattalu and Carline. Somewhere in the last bit, my success in finally figuring out standing up from heelside caught up with me and my abs were essentially nonfunctional, which made everything more difficult as I limped home. Here’s hoping for tomorrow (and yes, I’m still sticking with Col—at some point I will need to confess to Mum that I rarely actually rode with the Lads: I’m nailed on for the father of the year awards).
In the meantime, the Lads ranged around the resort with Stevo, eventually making it up TS LES LANCHES and down the red Double M with a couple of forays into side-piste. Dinner at Le Place for a reasonable pierrade (am always impressed by restaurants that manage to charge a premium for the patrons to cook their own food ).
Conditions: The weather is starting to turn, the lift pass ladies suggested I may want to buy them day by day (nfw, I’ve earned this 4-day lift pass). Heavy cloud cover with limited vis between 2300-2500m, brightening over the course of the afternoon. Snow cannons running tonight.
As always, thank you everyone for your kind words. I hope this saga is useful to others considering a similar endeavour (in either direction). Or a trip to Tignes, this is an outstanding resort, even if I’ve personally only seen a small portion so far.
JayRo wrote:
It's not something I could imagine wanting to do, basically because I don't think I could deal with the frustration of boarding less well than I ski for as long as it would take to learn, & then (I imagine) still preferring to ski in everything except powder (perhaps if I had months rather than weeks on the slopes each year...)
I won’t sugarcoat it. The frustration is huge. Just having to consider (for example) the underfoot snow conditions or the pitch of the piste when planning where to turn, or for that matter, needing to plan where to turn in advance at all on anything other than unpisted mogul runs—something I haven’t had to consciously think about on skis in years—is immensely aggravating. I also understand now why snowboarders are so annoying to skiers: a subject for my wrap up-post in a few days. But as mentioned in my first post, the crap you get away with when skiing is brutally punished on a board, ultimately, this will make me a better skier; and just maybe, by the end of the season, I’ll look cool, once in a while.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Dyrlac, loving the updates, glad to see that you've escaped Rosset Anémone is a super fun piste as long as not too busy.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
This lad 2 guy seems pretty cool, I would love to hear more about his awesome, exciting and thrilling adventures...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Lad 2, you never know, he might turn up and tell us all about them
Snowboarding is very hard and today was difficult to swallow. The OFP now down to 5.0 (Story: 9 (/), Better than Mates by Feb HT24: 3 (-4), Defection to Darkside: 4 (-1)). Woke up to fog and snow showers. Visibility was extremely poor. Col wisely abandoned the plan to stick nearish to the Lads and @stevomcd after seeing my ludicrous struggles navigating the entrance to TS ROSSET (plan was to work our way to Les Brévières) and suggested some warmup laps of Rosset, as I was clearly troubled by my abdominals from yesterday (I spent a long time researching burst spleens on the internet last night, but ultimately decided it was just a low grade 1 strain (narrator: Dyrlac is not a doctor, but has been injured so many times that he has a Dr House-like skill for differential diagnosis when it comes to his own body), so nothing to worry about, really.
The first warmup run was a total farce. Stayed upright, but just couldn’t execute turns of any kind and side-slipped most of it. We then did a series of drills (including lots of literal hand holding ) walking up the lower “slopes” of Rosset: the issue was entirely in my head, but I eventually got it down well enough to attempt a lap of Anémone which was a known quantity. Dear readers, this was a catastrophe once we were in the whiteout mire. Started hallucinating terrain features that weren’t there, leading to rushed turns and resulting falls, followed by lots of punching the snow in frustration and self-loathing, with Col gently reminding me to remember the well-executed turns rather than the miscues and to make allowances for the awful conditions and the fact that I had all of four days’ snowboarding experience. Pulled it together by the final pitch down to base, but was emotionally spent, and by then my left-side intercostals were acting up in addition to my abs (two months of daily Pilates in preparation for this trip has accomplished absolutely nothing ). Seriously considered packing it in for the day, but as I hope is clear from my trip reports, including this one, this lady is not for turning (hmm, that hits a little close to home).
Met the Lads for lunch at Rendezvous (excellent, excellent pizza, but service was grumpy even by French standards; not a problem, so was I). They had gone down to Les Brévières for better visibility, although it was mostly ice, and returned with a stylish run through the bordercross-esque Primevère under TS PALAFOUR. Strong pep talk from Stevo and Col, with Col (rightly) pointing out that I understood the techniques, and that another afternoon of lessons would just be him telling me things I already knew. While he was willing to babysit me, he was insistent that what I (and my wallet) needed was independent repetitions. Col, you’re the best.
Lads and Stevo went back to Tovière and Val Claret, and I trudged back to TS ROSSET, which I lapped, and lapped, and lapped, and lapped until they turned it off. No real falls notwithstanding the tricky vis, infestation of race teams on the best pitch and large sections of scraped-clean ice; rediscovered my heelside turns; tightened up my toeside turns, still late on flexing my lead knee about 50% of the time (but 50% is less than 100%!); rescued a couple of near catches with almost-intentional looking spins to switch; and can finally ride into the lift entrance without awkwardly edge stepping (ok, a couple of silly falls on the flat). Sure, this is where the Lads were on Day 2, but I am feeling a lot better. It is clear though, that absent a miracle breakthrough tomorrow, there is no way I will impress my mates at half term: I see a lot of work on the Méribel green network in my future and am trying to scheme my way into a sneaky long weekend beforehand (my usual work jolly to the 3Vs in January is looking DoA (a tale for another time)).
Dinner in the apartment tonight, panés de poulet avec miel, frites, and the cheapest bottle of CdR I could find at the Carrefour (€5.45) (yes Mum, I will also serve a real vegetable (narrator: a single petit pois each)).
Conditions: As above, diabolical. Tomorrow is looking even worse with 120kph winds, so Stevo may take us down to Sainte-Foy: sure, another lift pass expense (maybe with a reciprocal discount from Tignes), but at this point I’m just throwing €20 notes to the lifties for each ride, so what’s a few more .
Lad 2 wrote:
This lad 2 guy seems pretty cool, I would love to hear more about his awesome, exciting and thrilling adventures...
Oh, no. Everyone, I sincerely apologise for @Lad 2’s discovery of this forum and will ensure he knows the etiquette of the joint.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Panache? I’ll take that! Might be a first!
I will not distract from @Dyrlac’s magnum opus, other than to say that his tenacity is properly inspirational!
Lads 2 & 3 both absolutely killing it with their diametrically-opposed approaches to learning (chuck yourself down the mountain and see what happens vs somewhat sane and measured progression). Been great fun riding with you!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Unputdownable!
After all it is free
After all it is free
Day 6
Snowboarding is hard, and given the various strained and injured parts of my body—including but not limited to the entirety of my abs, both sets of intercostals, my left scapular muscle complex and the probable mild concussion I’m writing under the influence of—occasionally painful. But for the first time today, it was genuinely fun in a way normal snowsports enthusiasts would consider fun (as opposed to the psychopathic satisfaction experienced by people who are executing a mad scheme for reasons that make little sense). The OFP has inched back to 7 (Story: 10 (+1); Better than mates by HT24: 5 (+2) (well, maybe by the end of HT24, and assuming I can get in another sneaky trip); Defect to Darkside: 6 (+2). Without further ado:
As expected, conditions in Tignes le Lac this morning were grim. Totally overcast, extremely windy and a lot of lifts shut. Snow was getting into our flat through the closed windows (draught excluders apparently being unknown to 90s-era French property developers). So we fled down the valley to Sainte-Foy-Tarentaise, with @stevomcd proving the benefit of snow tyres and 4WD, thereby resolving the debate for all time (we had no trouble at all, others … did).
Back when I was planning this expedition, @ski3 recommended Ste Foy; which I had dismissed due to worries about elevation/snow cover. But boy was he right. Small, virtually deserted (even with the hordes from elsewhere up the valley struggling through horrible conditions or otherwise confined to quarters; yes I know an extra €34 and a half hour or so drive grinds one’s gears if you’ve already paid for a lift pass elsewhere, but that was well worth it) and with delightful snow for boarding and progressive terrain for learning. Given its aspect, Ste Foy was more or less entirely sheltered from the wind afflicting Tignes. It was as if Stevo (he is actually based there) had laid on a private resort for us.
Up TS GRAND PLAN (nb: my only criticism of Ste Foy is that a couple of the lifts have those tiny footrests for skis which are worse than useless for boards) for a warmup run down Les Charmettes. Some non-consequential falls for me, but was riding well enough to establish that I was in a much better place than yesterday morning. Stevo took the Lads further up the mountain to give them some things to work on while I lapped Les Charmettes to finish my warmup. Stevo and I then took TS L’ARPETTAZ to lap Les Combes a couple of times, and, dear readers, I actually felt like a snowboarder and was enjoying it for its own sake rather than just performatively suffering.
The Lads met us for lunch at Les Brevettes where the four of us had a ravioles creme beaufort. About which I can just say, wow.
After lunch we all headed over to TS LA MARQUISE via La Chapelle. Pretty straightforward, although I had a silly hard fall on one of the flatter bits. Stevo sent the Lads down Grand Solliet with instructions to do their drills and lap the chair via any available routes and he and I set off. Vis up top (at 2425m) wasn’t great and a light snow (tiny round crystals) was falling. This started to give me some trouble as per yesterday, but we quickly got through it. The pistes up there were virtually untracked, with at least 5cm of fresh on top of the corduroy. Fellow (for now ) skiers, pay heed, having 250mm underfoot is amazing in these conditions. Hands down some of the most fun I’ve had in the mountains in years, and I was just cruising along, executing turn after turn without more than a hint of skidding. Did that a couple of times with Stevo and then a coffee stop.
Stevo and @Lad 2 then went for a hot lap up TS LA MARQUISE; routing was a bit unclear, but I have photographic evidence of Lad 2 using the third point of contact during toeside turns off piste (narrator: Lad 2 had 5.5 days of snowboarding experience).
Hometime, so we headed back up to go down to base via Combe des Vaux. I was a bit knackered, and took a couple of heavy falls (resulting in the maladies described above) before sideslipping most of the way down the mountain and a walk of shame 200m from the bottom (unlike both Lads who treated the steeper bits like a nursery slope). Lad 3 back-marked me throughout, at one point getting off his board and pushing me up a slightly uphill bit of a cat-track when I physically couldn’t bend over to undo my bindings (he is a good son). Lad 2, in the meantime, was doing 360 spins on the flat the whole way.
After Stevo chauffeured us back up the valley, we had dinner in the apartment (charchuterie, frites and an intriguing but vile poulet de cordon bleu that the lads found at the Spar earlier in the week).
Heading back to the UK tomorrow. Weather is looking better, so the Lads are going to cruise the pistes in Tignes before our bus to GVA at 14h00. Given the physical state of my body, I’m going to call it a week and take it easy—doing a bit of shopping (inter alia I need snowboarding-specific salopettes, my skiing ones seem to have shrunk in the off-season and are altogether more form-fitting than is aesthetically acceptable on a board (especially with padded pants)) and dealing with logistics.
Will do a wrap up and lessons learned post when I get back to the UK, but in the meantime, an enormous and heartfelt thanks to Stevo and Col. Col, I regret that you weren’t there to see the fruit of your labours, but I couldn’t have done it without you. Stevo, Lad 2 already wants to do one of your camps as you may have irretrievably lured him to the Darkside, we’ll be in touch. Lad 3 may well join us on boards at HT.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
This was fun read. Especially the StFoy bit (which is 2months away for me, just after Hokkaido).
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Dyrlac, great read again. Particularly your last day as we have been enjoying Ste Foy all week, so I knew where you were talking about. You must have an amazing sense of achievement, and took on really good instruction.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Day 7 - Parting thoughts
The Lads got in another half day of riding on our last day before our Ben’s Bus departure at 14h10 on Saturday, heading back up to Val Claret and generally hooning around the Tignes western slopes, which gave me some time to deal with the logistics of our departure. Sadly, I was unable to source appropriately sized “bib pants” (I’m a transplanted American, even so, that sounds like a ridiculous thing to wear, but am told that’s what they’re called). So instead I started composing this wrap-up, in Q&A format.
So, are you a snowboarder now?
Kind of! The dirty secret of snowboarding (well, until @HandyHand spilled the beans upthread) is that you can get down almost any slope with a falling leaf (facing down the slope and sliding from side to side on your heel edge)—this isn’t at all hard and can be done with a certain lackadaisical aspect which is not nearly as embarrassing-looking as a snowplough or a locked-up knee-trembling sideslip on skis. I can definitely do that. If you meant proper turns, well, 60% of the time, my turns work every time. So some work to be done.
If you mean the whole “vibe” (‘bro’, ‘shredding’, ‘send it’, ‘lil ripper’, ‘stoked’), it’s pretty fun in a cosplaying ironic kind of way. And I grew a scruffy beard (now gone) to complete the look (undermined by my lack of bib pants & anorak jacket). But probably not, I still have some dignity.
I’m a skier considering learning to snowboard in my late 40s, is it a good idea?
Maybe! Unless you come from an adjacent board sport (especially surfing or wakeboarding), though, it is going to be difficult and painful. Your skiing skills are worse than useless, because (a) the edges are oriented in the wrong direction to your body, (b) you have half as many control surfaces as you’re used to, and (c) you will be impatient and expect faster progress, but impatience leads to crashes, and those hurt. Even after my relatively successful experience, I’ve got at least four musculoskeletal injuries (scapula and environs, intercostals, abdominals, adductors), any one of which should have me limping to the physio if not A&E (but I won’t because I know better than any so-called professional). Sure, I was rushing, because I have mates to impress in a mere 48 days , but it will take up at a minimum—if you are a normal middle aged person with no adjacent sporting experience—of 3 days to feel confident on bunny slopes and OK going a little further afield. I’m not sure it would have been possible for me to have made more of an effort, either physically or financially in the time I had, I think I need at least another week of intensive, structured effort to get to the level of Lad 3—assuming he stays still—and I will never reach the level of Lad 2. That is a *lot* of effort, to say nothing of annual leave used, limited reserves of spousal tolerance and the opportunity cost of not doing something that you might already enjoy. For me the results of my first week were about at my reasonable worst case pre-trip estimate for effort to outcome. Not altogether unlike my ongoing attempts to learn golf.
But, there are two countervailing factors: (a) it is good to try something new and (b) there is a something about riding that scratches an itch that skiing can’t. Kind of like riding a fixie—another dumb thing I do notwithstanding the pointless additional difficulty compared to the alternative—you feel a bit more of a connection to the environment rather than imposing your will on it. But I leave it to the reader as to the contribution of painkillers and sunk-cost fallacy to that perspective.
So ultimately, are you willing to give it a go for an extended period of time (a one-day “taster” will just put you right off, as shown in some of the replies in this thread above) and go back to basics—and i mean really basic, i.e., being terrified of taking out a snake of flocons? If so, go for it.
I’m, like, 16, and I, like, wanna go gnarly dude. Old man, what say you?
Send now it, bro, because every second you spend in my presence makes you less cool. I knew Lad 2 would take to snowboarding like a champ (although he is at pains to point out that he has put every bit as much effort into this project as me: it’s not his fault that his effort had a higher rate of return ), but Lad 3, who I can still just about best in a test of pure skiing, and who wasn’t altogether sold on project snowboard, made me look like a chump within 3 hours. This is a young lads’ game I think.
Why are snowboarders so annoying with their sitting down in inconvenient places all the time, being liabilities on lifts, always scraping down the mountain and everything else?
As I may have mentioned, snowboarding is very hard to learn. My working hypothesis is that the average rider is having a much harder time of things on the mountain than the average skier, which has some knock-on effects (obviously none of the below really applies to good riders, it just takes a while to get there):
* If you are stopped, it is almost impossible to stay put on all but the flattest of pistes (in which case a rider has more problems of getting started again). Which means you have to sit down or kneel; and unless you have abs of steel, it can take a bit of time to stand back up and get going, which means proportionately speaking, a rider will be sitting down a lot. Because you really don’t want to do that on the flat, you end up doing it on the closest convenient downward incline, which is often over the crest of a roller. I suspect the average skier stops just as often, it’s just less conspicuous.
* a day 3 skier can (or should) learn to execute a reasonably effective hockey-stop (pretty easy with two independent 150+ cm edges to work with). A similarly experienced rider will take multiples of the space and time required to come to a stop, and needs to worry about over-cooking it and falling down, or worse, misjudging the angle required and catching a downhill edge with catastrophic results. That means a rider will generally need to (or at least should) go slower and more frequently check their speed, and that means a lot more scraping (although it’s not like skiers aren’t guilty of side slipping and ploughing).
* with only two control surfaces and no sticks, manoeuvring in tight conditions is harder for riders generally, and because a rider’s orientation to the control surfaces they do have is perpendicular to their body, some contortions are necessary when dismounting a chair or mounting a drag. Oftentimes, this goes wrong.
* Skiers can generally look down the mountain at every point of the turn without ill effects. A rider doing that is begging to catch a downhill edge, which means a lot of blind spots throughout the turn.
Wasn’t this a Tignes trip report? How was Tignes? Would you go back?
Tignes shares a lot of obvious similarities with Val Thoren, and Tignes le Lac sits in a big bowl with pristine white slopes in every direction. Tonnes of mellow-looking, lift-accessible off-piste and plentiful advanced terrain, with a good network of true blue pistes (albeit without the unparalleled green network of Méribel/Courchevel). Would’ve been amazing on skis and I liked the feel of the resort better than VT. In the sunshine it was stunning. In more inclement conditions, the closest tree cover is in Tignes 1800 and below, which isn’t altogether straightforward for novices to get to (other than by bus). The village of Tignes le Lac is not especially picturesque, and the restaurants at the higher end are not as good as those in the 3Vs (but they are a little cheaper). My French got more of a workout than it usually does in the 3Vs, either by necessity or the locals being more willing to indulge me, but in any case I always enjoy rolling out my schoolboy French.
The transfer from GVA was not as bad as I’d feared, traffic was relatively benign, we were 3h25 from GVA to Tignes le Lac (even with a stop in Les Brévières) and a blazing fast 2h50 on the return. The upper reaches of the Isère valley (EK, Paradiski, etc) are always going to suffer by comparison in transfer times to the 3Vs, but it wasn’t disqualifying.
Tignes was massive overkill for a place to learn to snowboard though (and we never made it over to Val d’Isère), and I would have been better served just staying in Ste Foy (as pointed out by others), but given the time of year, I wanted to go high). Definitely keen to go back, would reconnect with Stevo and Col, and now I have what I feel like is enough on the ground experience to pitch it to the half-term syndicate—with the caveat that we’d spend at least a day in Ste Foy.
Would you do it again?
No doubt. I might have more realistically assessed my development timeline compared to the Lads, it was lucky Stevo got Col round to look after me.
I really wish it had been possible to rent Burton Step On bindings and boots. As mentioned in my first post, there are a lot of things that are terrible from a quality-of-life standpoint as a snowboarder, but the binding faff is the absolute worst. Were I posting on a snowboarding forum, I would get universally roasted for this take, but come on guys …
In any event, happy holidays everyone!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Dyrlac, thanks for a great set of reports, really enjoyed reading it over the week.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Dyrlac, brilliant! Thank you!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Dyrlac, hope you found a big sack of coal for going to the dark side! Very enjoyable read, you have a talent for putting your experiences on paper/screen!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Lovely reports: thanks, @Dyrlac (& @Lad 2!). Above all, thanks for confirming that this is something that I don’t have to do. I mean, I wasn’t ever going to (not least because all the friends I have who switched to boards in our teens have now gone back to skis), but this is such a vivid account of the downsides that whatever curiosity I might have had is thoroughly slaked!
One question, if either/both of you are able to answer it: if you were able both to ski and to board at about the same skill level, which would you choose to do, when/in what conditions, and why?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Dyrlac, thank you for sharing your experience in such an honest and entertaining way! Merry Christmas to you and the Lads.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Brilliant. OFP!!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Parting thoughts - part 2
Writing this from the metaphorical doghouse on Boxing Day strapped to a heating pad and with a plentiful supply of Co-Codamol, because I had only had two jobs: (1) bring back both Lads with all extremities attached and functional and (2) not to come back incapacitated myself. One out of two ain’t bad. Happily we’re not hosting anyone this year or I’d have been in real trouble.
JayRo wrote:
One question, if either/both of you are able to answer it: if you were able both to ski and to board at about the same skill level, which would you choose to do, when/in what conditions, and why?
I’ve been thinking about this a lot. A cycling analogy which I mentioned upthread deserves elaboration. One of my bicycles is fixed gear. It is painful going uphill (48x16 is a little strong for anything above a 6% grade) and downhill (on a fixie, if the wheels are turning, so are your pedals), but when you have a slight tailwind and the road is flat there is no better feeling, and when you are stopped and either trackstand or ostentatiously spin the wheel around to re-orient your pedals, you are indisputably a prince of the (London cycle commuter) peloton. I have bikes that are faster, bikes that are more practical, and bikes that are more comfortable, but I ride the fixie religiously between November and February just to chase that feeling.
With the caveat that I am certainly not as of today at the same skill level between skis and boards (although at points last week I was beginning to doubt my ability on skis), I think I would ski whenever: (a) I was in a new resort and wanted to get the lay of the land; (b) I was looking to cover a huge distance on the day (e.g., the Escapade); (c) I was with a bunch of dead keen and fast skiers; or (d) I was in spicier or more technical terrain, especially anything with bumps. If there was anything more than a dusting of fresh snow or if it was shaping up to be a more relaxed day with a group mixed ability folk, I’d ride.
I cannot stress how awesome 250mm underfoot is in deeper snow. My skis (I only have the one pair, the missus learned her lesson after failing to notice the metastatic growth in the number of bicycles before it was too late*) are 90mm, twin tipped Black Crows, which I love. They’re so effective in slush, I often seek out the “hillbilly powder” just to ski it, and they’re the only pair I can even pretend to take on a mogul field with (and “pretend” is doing a lot of work in that sentence). But in deeper stuff, I’ve always struggled, even with considerably wider rental skis. While the real powderhounds will claim to be able to ski the poudre with a pair of narrow-waisted GS skis, even the surfboards you usually strap to your feet have nothing on the effortless floating you get on a board.
Will leave it to @Lad 2 to give us his use case, but I suspect he is lost to skiing, @stevomcd, take a bow.
I am overwhelmed by the positive feedback on this thread, thank you everyone who’s commented and read these thousands of words. Mostly I do these reports for my own benefit to re-live my time in the mountains (the highs and the lows), but I hope they have also given people a bit of a diversion and maybe will be of use to future .
Merry Christmas and happy holidays everyone!
* A couple of my bikes appeared after I assembled them from “spare parts” [Ed: including the frames? Err, yes.], which avoided suspiciously large boxes arriving at the house.
@Dyrlac, it's not only the tale itself which has given me pleasure, but your felicitous turns of phrase. I don't know if writing is your stock-in-trade, but you do write most beautifully.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Hi @JayRo. I love and have always loved skiing ever since I first strapped sticks to my feet. Whether it's cruising (bombing) down the smooth blues of the 3Vs, battling the dry slopes of Sandown, attempting slalom courses with my school at Passo, destroying my shins on mogul runs in Verbier or gliding down the Canadian Powder, skiing will always be my favourite activity no matter the conditions. It's fun, thrilling, sleezy and satisfying to carve gorgeous turns at unsafe speeds all in the name of showing off to men in their late 40s.
However...
Snowboarding is really cool! Like, sure at the moment I'm a much better skier, but when you are on the board, carving in a different, more raw, down to the snow, aggressively cinematic style, it feels cool! You have to pay attention to each turn, you have to use your whole body and you have to work with the board and the slope, all while hitting gnarly edges, ludicrous positions and hard lines. You feel like you're bossing each turn in a way that you just can't on skis (though this may just be my view ). And while it is tedious clipping in after every lift, having to foot pedal and oh my god cat tracks suck , it makes up for it in the sense of pure volatility and excitement it provides. And powder? It was made for snowboards...
But overall, while I'm certainly not retiring the skis, I will most certainly stick with snowboarding in the near future. I have only hit the peak of the iceberg when it comes to tricks, jumps and (sorry mum) flips and definitely look forward to mastering this crazy sport. So if you prefer the more elegant, smooth and satisfying nature of skiing, stick with that, but if you want a taste of raw, youthful action on the snow, conversion is not a bad play.
@Dyrlac, I am in awe of your perseverance, your writing, humour and self depreciation.
Although this is a fabulous and very informative read, I have come to the conclusion that nutcases like you need certifying.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Frosty the Snowman,
After all it is free
After all it is free
@Dyrlac, @Lad 2, thanks for a witty yet highly informative read and your different perspectives. They tally with my experiences:
I started skiing at 15 with a series of truly crap French instructors once a year if that. Practice makes permanent. I survived as I’m physically fit with great balance. No problem as a teenager, useless over 40.
After failing to board on a taster day (on near ice can you believe it) I met some guys in a chalet who said no, you have to dedicate the whole week to it in order to crack it. I did that in Canada, with their excellent structured group lessons, in my late 20s. Felt so much more confident with boarding than with skiing as I had a good base not self-defeating bad habits like my skiing. Stuck with boarding for the next 10 years. The fact that I was single and well paid, so mainly did it in Canada, of course helped. Married with kids; back to skiing.
Boarding is great in softer/deeper snow, where I barely know how to ski, as my European experience was harder groomers. Boarding on hard stuff bloody hurts when you fall. And on one plank with no poles, you are much more likely to fall.
The younger you are, the more likely to bounce back, as well as the more confident/fearless. The older, the more bloody minded you need to be…
But I did feel my learning curve was much faster on a board, cruising down blue runs on day 3. Never did that when skiing (ref crap instructors, above). Ok the fact that I then did a cartwheel on my head brought me back to earth. In boarding you don’t so much fall as get levered over, and at speed you really know about it.
I’ve just come back from Gudauri which is a huge expanse of blue grade slope above the tree line, with up to a foot of soft snow all across due to a big dump just before I arrived. I couldn’t use my 70mm skis in it (don’t have the skills) and convinced I would have loved it on a board. But didn’t want to embarrass myself after 17 years off one!
Each to their own. There’s no right answer but for me the snow depth is a good pointer. Plenty here will disagree. My tuppence.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Absolutely brilliant report. I'm 41 and seriously considering giving boarding a go. This is the dose of reality I needed. I'm still keen, but I'm forewarned.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
A brilliant read, thank you @Dyrlac. I never skied, and when I met my wife, she had just snapped an ACL, and was recommended snowboarding as a way to get back on the slopes, but avoid the risk of twist through her bad knee. So we learnt together. That might be 20 years ago now... Love your commitment and effort, and speed of progress - trust me, none too shabby!
I think your first week does match many folk. Day 1 is tough, but somewhere around day 3 or 4 you may start linking turns, and at the same time the falling leave can get you down anything in extremis (our instructor lead us down a black in St Anton on day 4 ) I think it then takes a lot of effort to get good. I see a pretty high percentage of skiers carving nice lines down blues and reds, and I honestly think the percentage of snowboarders able to do the same is much lower. I fear we reach the point where we can get round the mountain, and then stop progressing...
That being said, I do think there is something about snowboarding that leads to a more playful headspace - perhaps just that switch riding can (and should) be part of your learning from the start, so you already have 4 turns to do, and 180 or 360 spins on the snow are just good practice for edge control. And, as you say, powder is just a totally different experience, the fear of catching an edge goes away, and suddenly you are surfing and swooping across the off-piste, or at least edge-of-piste. It seems much easier, or more enticing, to start playing silly bugs on a board than it does skis...
Physically, it is definitely more work (subject to comparable skill levels, etc etc.). I've a friend who does both with pretty matching ability, and often skis with heart rate monitor etc due to a health condition - he has the stats to prove it when repeating identical pistes at similar speeds and conditions.
We had a week last year in Ste Foy, with a day trip to Tignes. Loved Ste Foy, had a mindset of "smaller resort = more practice etc" rather than exploring, and had a great time. After the likes of 3V and Les Arcs etc, popping home to grab a spare top from the far side of the resort in 15minutes is a bit weird, but lovely once you get used to it. Tignes felt like a resort with plenty of potential to explore, and is on the list for another time.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
) skiing after having accomplished the 
.
). So my plan on having a single instructor for the three of us for a week is in tatters. Lads 2 & 3 were linking beautiful turns by the afternoon of Day 2 on hard-ish blue runs (and taught to do ollies to give them something to practice while I was still holding hands with the instructor) and told to get more advanced binding set-ups (which Tignes Spirit did late at night). At the same time, I was stacking it on the “baby’s first sledge” slope next to the magic carpet, so I have hired another full time instructor for myself so that Stevo could take the Lads to do, I dunno, unpisted couloirs tomorrow (which, as a skier, I was drooling at the sight of from my balcony).
Anémone is a super fun piste as long as not too busy.
). Seriously considered packing it in for the day, but as I hope is clear from my trip reports, including this one, this lady is not for turning (hmm, that hits a little close to home).
) I think it then takes a 