 Poster: A snowHead
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Just before christmas i was skiing quite quickly behind my instructor really cranking out some high speed GS turns on a wide empty piste when the next thing I know I'm being spat out of the turn backwards and hit the ground hard.
Luckily my head hit the piste after my backpack took the brunt of the fall. But it was still enough to knock me sensless for a bit.
I'm certain if the piste had been icy and i hadn't been wearing my backpack it would have resulted in serious injury.
However I just hate wearing helmets. I'd prefer it to be compulsory and then the decisions out of my hands. Plus surely someone will have to come up with some comfy ones.
All the ones I've borrowed (all off snowboarding buddies incidently) have been really uncomfortable.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Personal choice of course as far as adults go, but for those who take young kids skiing I believe it would be pretty irresponsible not to insist they wear a helmet. They haven't got the piste awareness on the whole, ski erratically, haven't yet worked out what is 'acceptable risk'.
When they improve, or even start racing, the wearing of a helmet doesn't carry any stigma as a result. I know my daughter, now 11 and racing throughout the season on snow, wouldn't put her skis on if she didn't have her helmet... just doesn't feel right. Good job too - in a super-G, even at that age, they can reach close to the motorway speed limit.
The going too fast 'because' of the helmet wouldn't apply as far as they're concerned. And there are some pretty telling stats on the difference levels of severity of injuries sustained at the same speed with, and without, a helmet. If adults would rather not wear one, that's fine. I'd just say... 'Be it on your own head...' 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I agree PG. I thought it was compulsory now for kids to wear helmets in ski school?
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As far as I know in France it's still just 'highly recommended' at the likes of the ESF. I wonder sometimes if they're worried they might lose some business...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I choose not to wear a helmet, but I've never allowed my (now 9-year old) son to ski without one. So far, he hasn't questioned my double standards.
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NickB - I too have been worried about double standards. I have 12 yr old son (Tom) and 15 yr daughter (Rosie) who i make wear helmets, but I did not. Until this season. In Jan tom and I learnt to board: we got full body armour including helmets. I was very glad I got it. Head banging seems a big part of learning to boarad. I now ski with it as well, and feel better about forcing kids into theirs.
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| Jonpim wrote: |
| I have 12 yr old son (Tom) and 15 yr daughter (Rosie) who i make wear helmets, but I did not. Until this season. |
but are we not just trying to wrap our kids up in cotton wool? I learned to ski on family holidays when I was about 4 or 5, as kids we used to do crazy stuff and on kit that you wouldn't believe... leather lace up boots and that kind of thing. The only accident I remember was a friend who skied into a drag lift as he was climbing.
Still winters used to last 8 months (like summers) and we used to have to dig ourselves out of our chalet every morning.
But if you are that worried about your kids you'd better find another sport or buy them a playstation.
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Where do you get those fancy helmets?
I got my kids helmets ages ago. Recently they began to moan about helmets. I got one to shut them up. My helmet looks a bit better than their's. Then they've noticed more skiers and boarders are wearing helmets, some with really wicked graphics. So now they want "cool" helmets. But where do you get them? I have looked at Snow & Rock and Ellis Brignham: pretty boring, no wild flames or grinning skulls. Can only find exciting helmets on American sites, but would prefer to try helmets on before buying. Can you get sexy helmets in UK?
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Makes perfect sense sherman, and let's abolish the compulsory wearing of helmets on motorbikes and seatbelts in cars while we're about it, why not....
Sorry, but there's a big difference between taking sensible precautions and wrapping people up in cotton wool. Anyone who can't see that needs their head examining....
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sherman-maeir,
I understand you comments, but don't agree. As I mentioned, I now wear a helmet, and would encourage other skiers and boarders to do the same. I notice the number of helmets on the slopes increases year on year. It is no longer considered soft and cranky. Indeed my daughter came back from Val d'Isere today and told me that the those wearing helmets with reflecting goggles (so you can't see their eyes) are always the best skiers. She now wants a "cool" helmet (see previous post). I now want to get some reflective goggles!
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| Jonpim wrote: |
| Indeed my daughter came back from Val d'Isere today and told me that the those wearing helmets with reflecting goggles (so you can't see their eyes) are always the best skiers. She now wants a "cool" helmet |
Some of the coolest helmets the young French skiers go for are Uvex race helmets - they not so keen on the really fancy designs. Otherwise I know some who get a plain white helmet and get the design of their choice painted on - but it's not cheap!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks PG. Great pictures. It's a UVex helmet she she has had for nearly 10 years (!?). so not sure how your suggestion will go down, even though the race helmet looks fine to me. Interesting idea to get basic helmet and tart it up. It would have to be black for Rosie (heavily into grunge and metal), but, as you say, likely to be expensive if going to look acceptable to budding real-cool-dude (princess in baggy trousers).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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well, obviously I was trying to stir up a bit of debate PG, but the basic point cannot be disputed. And that was that of two serious collisions involving our group on our last trip, both were caused by helmeted snow users clattering into one of us from behind, and neither time did they have the decency to even apologise.
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Martyn C: Your 'basic point' was: "It is my firm opinion, from these incidents and others seen, that the general people wearing helmets are reckless idiots who are wearing the helmet to protect themself, because thay know they are going to ski out of control and cause accidents." I repeat; that was, and remains, complete twaddle.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Jonpim wrote: |
| Interesting idea to get basic helmet and tart it up. It would have to be black for Rosie |
Come to think of it, early on, I did see some nice designs on the shelves of the bigger shops in France. Bit late in the season now though. But if you've got money to burn there are a number of workshops here such as http://www.aerosteph.com/ They mostly do bike helmets but can turn their hands to anything. There are plenty of custom helmet resprayers in the UK too - probably cheaper than in France!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I got a helmet this year at the prompting of my wife and son, who has worn a helmet for a couple of years. Only an idiot would suddenly begin skiing like a wild man/woman just because they have a helmet. I ski the same and don't really think about the helmet. I do know that I'm less vulnerable to injury, especially when skiing the trees or on hard pack days.
Say, wear the fox hat, do have a different name on that other board other than what you use here and at epic?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think martyn was just trolling.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Jonpim wrote: |
Where do you get those fancy helmets?
Then they've noticed more skiers and boarders are wearing helmets, some with really wicked graphics. So now they want "cool" helmets. But where do you get them? |
If they have good helmets then have them fix them up themselves. Take them to a store that has lots of stickers. Or paint. They can find their own flames or whatever and make their helmets "cool" Thats a heck of lot cheaper than replacing perfectly good helmets just because of looks.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Lorraine, David. It is compulsory to fasten seatbelts and to wear helmets while driving here in Italy too. It has been so since the mid '80 of last century.
The fact that there is a law, doesn't mean that people is willing to abide to it.
when abroad we always tend to make broad generalizations:
It is true that some parents don't make their children wear seatbelts. Yes, it is true here in Italy but it is also true in France, Germany and I am sure, also in the U.K.
It is true that some people do not wear helmets while riding motorbikes, it is true in Italy and elsewhere.
I always fasten seatbelts, make my children fasten seatbelts (I won't start the car otherwise), I 've always worn an helmet when riding a motorbike. I always wear a helmet while cycling. And so do a lot of my friends.So, Am I (are we) not an Italian for this? Or some sort of well dressed chimp?
Children 14 y.o. and younger will have to wear an helmet while skiing, from Jan 1st, 2005. The law has been signed last december, but it will become effective next year. Regardless of the law, my children do wear an helmet when skiing, and have done so since they were 3 y.o.
Do I wear an helmet when skiing? No, I'm invincible anyway... 
Seriously, I don't wear one because:
a)it's a matter of priorities, children first, then is some money is left, dad too, so
a)I don't have the money
b)I haven't found an adult sized helmet of my "liking", yet.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 24-02-04 8:38; edited 2 times in total
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I was looking for a helmet a few weeks ago, couldn't find one big enough! Must be big-headed.
I am sure protection does make a difference to confidence (risk compensation theory etc.) but confidence can be a good thing. My son got a helmet this season and it transformed his skiing. He was taking a more direct line down the slope (not so much traversing), rhythmic turns, hence easier to predict where he was going. A bright yellow lid also made him easy to find in a crowd.
Martin
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
sherman-maeir
Still winters used to last 8 months (like summers) quote |
Errr doesn't that make for 16 month years???????????????
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I think that was his point, looking back on your childhood through rose tinted goggles changes the timescale somewhat.
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| Pete Horn wrote: |
| I think that was his point, looking back on your childhood through rose tinted goggles changes the timescale somewhat. |
Yes, thanks Pete, that was the point I was trying to make. I still think that the subject of helmets - be it for cycles or skiing, is like a relgion for some people.
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At a conference recently in Belle Plagne (we anaesthetsts are not stupid!) we had a talk by the local medical director. He told us French resorts send details of all accidents involving the medical services to a national database. They therefore have a mass of data on ski injuries. When analysed by age: adults injure legs and arms. Children injure heads. I therfore make my childern wear helmets. I now think helmets for adults is a good idea, but few of my friends agree. I hope to keep my children wearing helmets by getting them helmets that look good. Fiddler (Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:35 am) admonishes me for "replacing perfectly good helmets just because of looks". I plead guilty, but they are 10 years old, and none of us is entirely resistant to the siren lure of looks, be it car, camera or mobile phone.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Jonpim - I can't pronounce your profession. You can't spell it. Touche.
But interesting that the French are collating data on this topic. Apart from in ski schools where the toddlers wear them, I've seen very few helmetted Henrys (or Henriettas) in Belle Plagne.
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Matteo, agree with you but just to pick up a point. In the UK everyone on a two wheeled motorbike or scooter wears a crash helmet otherwise the plod books you. They have even been booking people who do not need to wear helmets and the appeal is next week after the magistrates chucked out the charge.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Jonpim wrote: |
| They therefore have a mass of data on ski injuries. When analysed by age: adults injure legs and arms. Children injure heads. |
They do indeed have these figures... for children (defined as under 16) the wrist is the most vulnerable area fpr snowboarders and for alpine skiing 25% involved the head with the classic injuries of joints being the majority. So you should make sure your little darling is wearing wrist guards before getting onto her board or skis.
Of course the head injuries may be more lift threatening but wrist injuries are not pleasant either. You also have to set their statistics against the general weather conditions during the winter measured - you may be more fractures say during a poor snow year when the pistes are icier.
I notice that the French form 83% of the statistics, despite the fact that the English represent 22% of skier days in France. Statistically the French would seem to be more dangerous on the slopes so I think there is a case for banning them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm getting a helmet this year. Last year I was taken out by a flying snowboarder who wasn't looking where he was going. Flew through a trail junction, slammed into me, separated my left shoulder (still painful) and I ended up face down on the snow about 3 metres from my skis with a dripping gash on my face.
Now, the helmet wouldn't have saved me from the most incapacitating injury (the separated shoulder), but this was a wake-up call. There is just no protection against idiots (and yes, the idiot WAS wearing a helmet, although what it was protecting I cannot imagine). So this year, I'm doing my best to keep my brain safe. Like Woody Allen said: It's my second-favourite organ.
Actually, and on reflection, this is an interesting question of risk perception. I've played cricket since childhood, to a reasonably high standard, usually as an opening bat for whom part of the fun is facing bowlers who are pinging a hard ball at my head at speeds in excess of 65 mph. I don't wear a helmet. I've never worn a helmet and I don't intend to start wearing a helmet for this activity.
So why the difference between skiing in a helmet and playing cricket without one? Well, when I'm playing cricket, the bowler isn't slinging the ball at my head when I'm looking in the other direction. Also, I have a good technique, which I rely on to get myself out of line if the bowler DOES sling one at my head - whereas I just haven't been skiing for a sufficiently long time to consider myself sufficiently technically proficient to avoid all reasonable possibility of a head-on-rock/tree/other snow-user situation.
And finally, I'm certainly not intending to take more risks simply because I'll be wearing a lid. After all, the helmet won't protect my ACL or other parts which, on balance are more likely to be damaged in a ski accident, but I can live without an ACL, whereas serious brain damage is something I'd rather not suffer.
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I bought a Marker helmet this year primarily because I was going to be teaching and spending more time on the slopes frequented by less-skilled skiers. I am focused on avoiding injury caused by some other skier/boarder careening downslope completely out of control.
I've been skiing long enough (and my bones are getting old enough!) that I don't think too much about my own safety WRT my skiing. While it is possible that I could ski into a tree, that would be one of those "it was going to happen" things that I don't think I can avoid. On the double-blacks in Colorado, I rarely have to worry about being hit...
I don't wear the helmet every day, and I am less likely to wear it on days when I'm free-skiing alone or with high-level friends. I don't believe it's changed my skiing at all.
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You know it makes sense.
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Hmmm. This paging thing always catches me out, so my posts are in the wrong place. But a couple more comments
The wanting of flames and suchlike on a helmet. If ever there was encouragement to feel invincible and be reckless then surely thats it. Why not go the full thing and have nasty gruesome pictures of accidents ?
I quote Jonpim, and I apologise if I have got this totally wrong and your daughter is no longer a child. "my daughter came back from Val d'Isere today and told me that the those wearing helmets with reflecting goggles (so you can't see their eyes) are always the best skiers. " I would take that sort of comment from a child to mean not the best skiers, but those who went fasted, took the most risks, and showed off.
And yes, I am still stirring
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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kuwait_ian, I reckon the great majority of under tens, in or out of ski school, now wear helmets in France. Not so easy to persuade them once they approach their teens, but quite a few now find it 'cool'....
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Poster: A snowHead
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martyn c, On a sunny day dark tinted lenses improve the ability to correctly interpret the changes in terrain etc at speed, as do orange/yellow ones in cloud/poor visibility. Our club (and others from the 3V etc) were racing in Val and Tignes for several days last week. They use the right goggles/gear/skis for the conditions, for the sole purpose of reducing risk and to improve their ability to ski at speed under control. Looking good is just an extra! I reckon Jonpim's daughter must be very perceptive - it's straightforward enough. If you've got an advanced driving licence and an expensive car with abs, independent suspension and all the other safety trimmings, and spend most of the year learning how to improve your driving, you're less likely to have an accident. Skilled local skiers are taught to respect the environment, and others on the piste. They don't go haring around taking silly risks - why should they, in crowded holiday periods, when they've got the whole season to pick and choose quiet days to have some fun away from training?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ian (Kuwait): sorry - always was useless at sprlling.
Sherman-maeir - I knew about wrist injuries when boarding, so when "my little darling" and I learnt to board in January we both had wrist guards (and bum pads), and very glad we did too.
Martyn C - Rosie (15 yrs) is not impressed at all by speed, but rather by "style". Tom (12 yrs) on the other hand would want actual flames coming out of his helmet and would be very impressed by speed.
Helmets, by the way, are a real bonus when it's raining (eg Avoriaz early January) as they are waterproof and dont go all soggy like wolly hats.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Matteo, thanks for the link and your comments. The French accident data do not support the common view that boarders are dangerous coz they crash into skiers. In fact it seems boarders bash boarders, skiers crash into skiers, and beginners of either persuasion are the most dangerous.
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Jonpim, you're welcome.
That's also my view, I do not think that boarders are worse than skiers or viceversa. I do beleive that it's in the people head. Now, the perception that only boarders are irrespectful of rules and behave in a dangerous way, well, it's a perception.
I 've seen boarders crash into skiers and viceversa, skiers behave inrresponsibly and boarders too...it's in the people's head, not in what they use to slide down the mountains.
I ski in a mixed group of skiers/boarders (well, nowadays it's one boarder and many skiers) of all ages (from my kids, 8-9, to my mother, 65). The only problem comes when we have to traverse flats...
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If you ding a cycling helmet you are recommended to replace it even if there is no obvious damage. Snow is usually - but not always - softer than tarmac. Does the same warning apply to snow sports bone domes ?
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Of course wearing a crash helmet is a good idea. There is no argument that you are safer without a crash helmet on than with.
Not skiing trees isn`t the answer. Of course its safer not to ski them but using that logic it would be safer not to ski at all.
The UK government made it compulsory to wear seat belts in cars about 20 years ago, people didn`t suddenly start driving like they were indestructible.
Whats much more likely to make you feel indestructible and widely available to be drunk in vast quantities is alcohol.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| kuwait_ian wrote: |
| If you ding a cycling helmet you are recommended to replace it even if there is no obvious damage. Snow is usually - but not always - softer than tarmac. Does the same warning apply to snow sports bone domes ? |
You are supposed to, but then, how do you define a crash? Direct impact, a glancing blow? It's true that damage won't always be visible, but hell, you can't buy a new one at today's prices each time you come a cropper. As important probably is how good the helmet is, some consumer reports I read a while back really slate some models.
At the end of the day though behaviour on the piste is key, respect, and good training. Standard helmets are on the whole only designed to protect skiers/boarders from direct impacts at speeds around 10mph at best! An aside - I wonder - if we did a poll - how many here could list the 10 FIS piste rules, without checking first??
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| kuwait_ian wrote: |
| If you ding a cycling helmet you are recommended to replace it even if there is no obvious damage. Snow is usually - but not always - softer than tarmac. Does the same warning apply to snow sports bone domes ? |
Ian, the recommendation in my Giro 9 is that if I hit it, I should replace it. (same as the cycle helmet)
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FAQ
