 Poster: A snowHead
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It's just a way of making more money, isn't it? If not, it would be easier for them to just let everyone book seats on line for free, except, perhaps, for the coveted extra leg room. Then they wouldn't have to bother with allocating any seats at the airport.
What really makes me mad is that when a couple is allocated seats by the airline it's usually a window and a middle. I want an aisle so I don't mind paying to guarantee it, (well, I do really but .....). However, I can't do this. Both of us have to pay for an allocated seat. And he won't. On the grounds that he really doesn't care where he sits. Which is fair dos really.
I usually end up wandering up and down the plane asking if anyone in an aisle wants to swap for a window. There's usually someone who really wanted a window but didn't pay up and ended up in the aisle. It's just a pain having to do it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thoroughly disappointed by this news. Am I the only pervert who walks up and down the aisle on an Easyjet plane in the hope to find a seat next to a good looking gal?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| maggi wrote: |
| It's just a way of making more money, isn't it? |
Yes, and I think I have proof. Yesterday I was on an allocated seating flight. There was me, window seat row 2. Before allocated seating I was usually dead certain of keeping the middle seat next to me free of oiks but yesterday, on my first experience of an allocated EJ flight, the game plan crumbled. A be-suited fella got on late and filled that space and oh boy he did not look well. I was thinking it was either the morning after the office Christmas party or he had Norovirus. Head in hands and forehead up against the seat back, he didn't budge at all for the safety drill. Then as we were taxi-ing he reached for the sick bag at which point I thought "I'm not 'avin this" and gave him a gentle nudge and told him he'd be better off in the front row where there were two free seats next to each other. Amazingly, he quickly got up, the guy in the aisle seat moved out of the way and Mr Norovirus plonked himself down in 1F, immediately hovering his mouth over the sick bag. It happened too quickly for the crew to do much about it (after all the plane was moving) but one did jump up and, before asking if he was alright, reminded him that it was a £19 upgrade to sit there and, for good measure, had a go at him for not stowing his coat! It was pure comedy frankly. After take off and the extinguishing of the seat belt sign, Mr Norovirus got up and spent the next 15 minutes in the bog and when he returned the crew guy banished him to the middle of the plane - I think he was thinking the same as me... if it's winter vomiting disease I'd rather he was 10 yards further away.
Aside from that, I think the allocated seating is more chaotic than the previous arrangement. It definitely took longer to get everyone in. People were getting on surprised to learn that they had an allocated seat so there was a fair bit of "you're sitting in my seat" going on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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And people are still queueing up like lemmings at the gate before the flight starts boarding, even though they have their seat allocation.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Swissie, that's true. And when they get on board they seem to have trouble seeing the row and seat numbers.
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It is taking longer to board, as people are a little more relaxed, which is not good for the easyjet 35 min turn around. They need that rush to get on and sit down. It will hopefully settle down a bit in a few months time. Most people seam to like it.
If you have an easyjet plus card and there are free seats as in empty, you can request to change and there is no charge. Unfortunately if you don't then you have to pay.
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Swissie, The reason to queue is so you can find a space in a locker for your bag. That hasn't changed. I hate having it stuffed under the seat in front and as I'm going to spend 90 minutes sitting on the plane I don't mind standing in the queue.
All my old seat finding strategies are out of the window now! I suppose it's just turn up and stand at the front of queue 2.
If I'm bagless I just sit at the adjacent gate where all the empty seats are and drink my coffee and then be last on board.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DJL, Yep I see your point, but don't you think some people push the boundaries when it comes to the size of their hand luggage. Last week as I boarded a EJ flight back to Geneva, they had a member of their ground staff checking hand luggage with that frame thing, first time I have seen them do that forever.
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I've experienced the frame thing a couple of times at Geneva. My wheelie bag fits though it sometimes needs a bit of a squash and slits straight in the overhead locker with no problem and room to shove a coat on top of it. I reckon if everyone has a full size bag there is only enough locker space for 50-60% of them. The lockers are often full of things that don't need to be there and general grumpiness ensues.
I've also noticed airline staff walking down the boarding queue asking for volunteers to check in bags for free to avoid the above problem.
For those of a Ryanair persuasion watch out! Their lockers are the same size as Easyjet but the frame and maximum luggage size are smaller (and just a bit less than the standard cabin baggage wheelie case everyone owns). They're a decent bunch though - to help you out you can pay for your oversize bag to travel in the hold. Oh, they also sell a Ryanair compliant bag for only about £100. So thoughtful of them to help their customers who overlooked the small print.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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i never used to be bothered about the queue and would sit idly by with my book and coffee and wait until the crew were insisting i board. the reason being that whilst there was no queue for boarding card check, there'd be a queue at the plane. 90mins with a bag at my feet is nothing, as is sitting in a middle seat. intercontinental, i start to get a lot more demanding but hopping about europe, nah, no point getting bothered.
now they've got allocated seating a friend and i have paid extra for the over-wing legroom seats which comes with priority boarding. heck, i now only fly about 5 or 10 times a year, so it's a little treat on our annual ski hols.
afaik, you get the choice of seats, some of which you can pay for, ie front rows, over-wing, etc. no different to more and more major carriers now. when i flew for business this was our bible to seat choice if you weren't in business class - http://www.seatguru.com/
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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wow - people actually think about this 5h1t. The only reasons for me to get on a plane are either for business or skiing. For business, some else is paying, so the flight will ideally involve 16 vestal virgins carrying me to the plane and feeding me oysters. For skiing, I am paying. Is there a discount for clinging to the undercarriage?
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So they seat people 6 to a row and then leave loads of rows completely empty and (try to) stop people moving to the empty rows.
It's a wind up worthy of Ryanair
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You know it makes sense.
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red 27
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So they seat people 6 to a row and then leave loads of rows completely empty and (try to) stop people moving to the empty rows.
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That's not due to them being naughty, it's a safety issue.
The main point of switching to assigned seating is to be able to precisely control aircraft trim (balance).
For years lowcosters have been much cheaper than mainstream carriers. But last years, big carriers have been becoming cheaper and cheaper.
That's thanks to modern load control software which is capable of accuratly distributing weight in the holds and cabin so: a) aircraft can take more commercial freight b) it can use less fuel.
20 years ago one load controller could depart about 5 flights per shift, today software does it almost automatically so a single controller can oversee up to 50 flights per shift.
That's huge operational costs saving.
With free seating load controller has to allow much larger tollerances, becuase it's hard/impossible to predict how passengers will be distributed in the cabin.
That effectively makes it impossible to take any freight on board except for baggage and some currier mail.
It also forces them to tkae more fuel, becuase fuel plays important role in balancing the aircraft.
All of the above makes traditional carriers more and more competitive these days, so lowcosters have no choice but give up free seating.
Now, a single passenger changing a seat in the cabin may seem unsignificant, but it is actually.
Putting an extra 80kg on the wrong balance arm could ultimatelly take the aircraft out of balance during take off/landing with disastrous consequences.
Hope this makes sence 
(I'm a departure control software developer)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If it makes such a difference are we likely to see people being asked for weight of passengers? I am not trying to spark and argument just genuinely interested. I am thinking that my to daughters who both now have their own seat weigh approx 6stone between them. Whereas I weigh more than twice the two of them together (12st 2). Them you take a well built man and you are looking at several stone heavier.
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Poster: A snowHead
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NickyJ, unlikely. However airlines use different statistical models to "guess" the passenger weights.
For example they say that average male weights 80kg, average female 60kg and an avarage child 30kg and then calculate the trim keeping that in mind.
They also use different models for different countries, e.g. an average american weights much more than an average chinese (no offence, please).
Most authorities require airlines to develop clear and documented weight models, be them statistical or actual weighting.
None of airlines I'm aware of do the actual weighting though - too expensive and time inefficient.
Asking the passenger of his weight would have offended most people so they don't do that either.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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EJ checked most bags at GVA last year on our return flight home, they also did it to some at Newcastle on way out. Also summers flights we spotted them checking on most flights.
There are people that are taking the wee wee with bags and EJ have not been too strict in past but look like clamping down now.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
None of airlines I'm aware of do the actual weighting though - too expensive and time inefficient.
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I flew from Guernsey to Alderney in a tiny little twin prop thing that was a row of double bus seats in a long line behind the pilots. Total number of passengers was about 20. We all had to stand outside the plane and the pilot selected different people for different seats. One bloke got really upset about not sitting next to his companion so we all had to get out again and be reallocated seats so the two of them could sit together! It was a 20 minute flight IIRC 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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fixx, The opposite is also true: read in the departure lounge until everyone's on the plane, get up, wander onto the plane and book straight out again. £2 saved.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bode Swiller,
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Those getting on rarely try and sit in that spare seat, prefering to take their chances further back. Also the overhead bins tend to fill up from the front so people move on to find bin space. So net result on 90% of the flights I take is more room and less time used. Oh, and you don't have to sit with people too tight to buy speedy boarding - that means you're not next to someone who has brought their own egg sarnies
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I've never really thought about this before - I just wandered onto the plane and sat down. For my next flight, I shall be entertaining myself by packing egg sarnies (if I can get them through security) and carrying them visibly onto the plane - last. I shall then gauge the relative horror on the faces of those with a vacant middle seat and then choose accordingly.
Thanks for a brilliant idea...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I have received an email from easy jet today stating that they can not guarantee to accommodate every ones cabin luggage. They suggest we get there early in order to be able to take our hand luggage on board. They also state due to changes in security we need to be there two hours before departure!
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CaravanSkier, this is because they are not taking any speedy boarding money anymore and so need to drum up panic.
There are the same no. Of lockers as always...
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We booked 2 flights to Geneva last week. When we booked, only 8 seats on the whole plane had been pre booked. We will wait and check every week to see how its going and if needs be then amend the booking. if we dont pre book them, will we be sat together on the plane?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ricklovesthepowder, They say they will try to put passengers on the same booking together but it's not guaranteed. I booked 2 seats to Munich in November and we were seated together.
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geepee, cheers. I really cant see a Tuesday morning flight in january being full!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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With just a bit more personal data, it would be fairly easy for them to offer "dating" seats and charge accordingly. So, in your easyJet Plus profile, you enter DOB (gererates age and star sign), gender, sexual preferences, interests, Facebook ID, profession etc and the seating algo matches you up with a suitable potential mate. For safety reasons they'd also have to give weight/height/bra and thong size. It would generate more than a few quid per seat shirley.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Bode Swiller, You have just given me a great idea. "Date Airways"
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You know it makes sense.
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Didn't pay for selected seating
Checked in online 30 days before flight and the boarding passes I've printed have our seat numbers on, both together.
I imagine aslong as you check in online within 24 hours of check in opening you'd get seated together?
Need to do more checking in on Thursday for a group of 6 so will see what happens there
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Just to follow on from my post above
Have now checked in for my January flight, check in opened 30 days before the flight and that's from departure time.
Checked 6 people in 20 minutes after the online check in opened and have been given a full row, row 18 from A to F.
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Poster: A snowHead
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snowscreen, that is a very good idea! I will check in for my flight on January 15th later on!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I also noticed that the flights Ive been on recently have had what I would best describe as " not the normal type who would pay for speedy boarding"
What I beleive is happening is very few people are paying for their seats. Most people just accept the free allocation lottery. The only seats available when you turn up at the airport are the ones in theory you pay for. So if you are travelling alone or dont mind not spending an hour and a half sat next to the missus, turn up at the airport check in as normal and you get a "better" seat. Just keep looking at the on line check in and watch all the free seats filling up, then your quids in.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| oleksii wrote: |
red 27
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So they seat people 6 to a row and then leave loads of rows completely empty and (try to) stop people moving to the empty rows.
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That's not due to them being naughty, it's a safety issue.
The main point of switching to assigned seating is to be able to precisely control aircraft trim (balance).
Now, a single passenger changing a seat in the cabin may seem unsignificant, but it is actually.
Putting an extra 80kg ....... could ultimatelly take the aircraft out of balance during take off/landing with disastrous consequences.
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Total BS ... if you think of the variables of the weights of individuals and precisely where each bag is and how much it weighs , it would be touch-and-go whether any flight crashed.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Agenterre wrote: |
Total BS ... if you think of the variables of the weights of individuals and precisely where each bag is and how much it weighs , it would be touch-and-go whether any flight crashed. |
Ern... Are you sure you know what you are talking about?
I work with this stuff every day. Every misplaced hold bag, or miscalculated during transit gets immediately escalated as an urgent safety issue. Catering pantries location, cabin crew location, crew bags, water tanks, even duty free goods - it's all carefully considered during trim calculation.
Again, if you are familiar with the topic, linear optimization problem is usually expressed by means of 70 dimensional target function. Quite often even more, depending on how demanding the airline is.
Yes, statistical models for pax/bags weights are not ideal, and therefore the trim tolerances usually account for that. I'm not saying that one passenger changing seat WILL inevitably undermine the balance, but there are chances, and they are not that remote. e.g. when the passengers ends up in a different trim zone to the one he was initially assigned to. And you don't what to take any chances when you are inside a can with a wing, do you?
Some pax distribution related incidents:
http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/rapporten/2006042e_2003004_PH-HZB_(Eng)_tail_strike_transavia.pdf
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Saab-Scania_SF340B,_G-LGNE_08-09.pdf
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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oleksii, so had did EZY manage for the last 5 years when they let everyone sit wherever they wanted?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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red 27, they allowed very large trim tollerances.
I'll try to explain.
Center of gravity (CG) is experessed using index. Index being a integer number denoting a position along aircraft's simmetry axis.
Every index is calculated and documented by the manufacturer.
Manufacturer also establishes and documents limits.
e.g. documentation says "for take off the CG must be within [70, 250] interval".
With allocated seating load controller can distribute weights in such a way that CG will be at index 74, i.e. very close to the limit, because he can predict what passengers weight aprox are and how they are distributed.
With free seating however he can't do that, he needs to place CG as close to the middle of the interval as possible, i.e. around 150.
This seriously restricts possible freight distribution in the holds, and therefore doesn't allow to take as much freight as aircraft capacity would have normally allowed.
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Load controller hasn't a clue how heavy me, my hand baggage or my (non weighed) personal belongings are. 95kgs of me checking in wearing another few kgs of clothes + 15kg hand luggage + big coat with pockets stuffed with more heavy stuff + a couple of kgs of duty free is going to have a very different moment to a 50kg person travelling light sat at the opposite end of the plane.
Averages are fine, on average.
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oleksii, thanks
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| FenlandSkier wrote: |
Averages are fine, on average. |
I know what you mean. 
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FenlandSkier, that's right. Which is why, to accomodate such fluctuations, he will never put the CG closeer than N points to the limit. Also statistical weight model is smart enough to "know" that people heading in the winter to skiing destinations are much heavier than in summer.
There are risks that one person could undermine the balance. Even one hold bag not accounted for can, even though it weights usually around 25 kg.
If you read the incident report #2 I posted, there was a statement that 25 kg of newspaper should have been removed from the hold (after passengers rearrangement) to bring aircraft back to trim.
Anyway, I don't want to argue any longer on this. Have a nice xmas.
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FAQ
