@mooney058, If you need to charge on the public network away from home I'd want to be testing very carefully what chargers are available, speed, reliability, cost. That's the reason I changed my iPace to a Tesla, multiple apps needed, public charging broken/full/not able to take payment. I've experienced zero issues since getting the Tesla in 20k miles. My wife has had to queue once on a motorway for 2 mins to get a charging slot.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Markymark29 wrote:
… 80/85mph for 2-3 hour stints between WC breaks, 2 people sharing the driving, 600 miles in 9/10 hours, one fill up half way there is my measure of where a car needs to be if driving to the Alps.
Just out of interest, what are the timings for a typical drive you do to the Alps? I’m a fair bit closer to the Alps than you are, in driving time, so my typical journey in an ICE car means a 5.30am start with an arrival in Les Arcs around 7.00pm (local), driving in the same way you’ve described here. That won’t be the case in an EV, but friends’ experience and my own route planning suggest a 5.30am departure will get me to Les Arcs somewhere around 8.30 - 9.30pm. It’s a longer travel time, but I’m still doing the journey in a day and the difference in arrival time I don’t think has any practical significance.
As I do this drive, there or back, on only 4 or 6 days per year I didn’t think those few days should dictate my car choice for the rest of the year. So I was prepared to accept, if necessary, splitting my drive overnight to allow enough time to make the journey in an EV. Turns out it’s not necessary, and in the grand scheme of things the extra time it will take in an EV won’t make a difference. For a longer drive time from N. Yorkshire maybe it will make a difference, so if you want the EV experience to be no different to an ICE experience on that long journey I think you’re right to say it’s not for you, even if it works for many other people.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Great thread - I’m now planning our Xmas ski trip, and only thing booked so far is the Eurotunnel, departing Folkestone at 10.36 on Friday 22nd December. I have a new Ioniq 5, 77kwh RWD and this will be our first road trip in Europe with an EV. Thinking of going to Les Sybelles area. Not been there before and fancy trying something different.
Looking for overnight stopover in Macon area with EV charging. Free charging would be nice but although can find hotels with EV charging having trouble finding out if they are paid for or free.
We’re happy with a budget hotel but prepared to pay a bit more if there is free charging. There is an Ibis Budget at Macon Sud and assume that would be paid for charging.
Has anyone got some advice on this or know of any Apps that shows the cost?
Our experiences: we’ve done 4 return trips to the Alps (Tignes), 3 with dogs, in a Tesla Model Y Long range. We always take the Eurotunnel and arrive in Calais at ~maximum charge. The timings from Calais are around 10.5 hours of actual law-abiding driving and around 2 hours of charging (when we exercise the dogs). The car’s predictions are sometimes too optimistic on the projected timings (including charging) giving a total of 11hrs 20mins.
There has been very little variation in these timings, there or back.
The charging stops work for us: there’s usually 4 charge stops in each direction - no other spots are permitted. We leave Tignes with a full charge too. We’ve learnt to select the 250kW stops for speedier charging and our route generally supports that and new 250kW chargers were waiting to be unveiled to supersede the 150kW.
Load: 2 or 4 adults; 2 dogs; hand luggage.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Travelling down to Morzine 29 Dec-1st Dec, using the EV for the first time this year. Have done plenty of summer travelling over there with it, charging primarily on ionity as it's cheap with the subscription.
But I don't mind admitting I'm a bit nervous about how busy the ionity points through France will be on that peak season change over day, and also how much the cold will slow the charging stops (Ioniq5 so quick charging but no battery preconditioning so slower if it's cold).
Long queues or really slow charges has the potential to turn what is a pretty decent long journey into a bit of a nightmare.
Re how busy the Ionity points will be - it's difficult to predict as there will have been an increase in both supply and demand since say the equivalent time a year ago. For peace of mind I'd suggest considering other charging networks - a fair number of Tesla chargers in France are now open to all, and I use an RFID card from chargemap which covers pretty much all rapid charger networks.
Re rate of charging, I doubt this will be affected much by the temperature, but it may depend on what car you have. We have a Kona that can take up to 75 KW, and has no (that I know of) pre-conditioning, and have regularly got the full 75 KW (and sometimes up to 80 KW) in 3 winter trips to the alps
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@mooney058, not really sure how that progresses aiding an ev get to the Alps this winter? Maybe a fresh thread.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@rob@rar, Apologies missed replying to your question.
Hull/ Rotterdam ferry overnight, disembarking 9am at Europoort. Arrive in resort 18.00 ish in time for evening food, couple of quick stops on route for toilets, fuel and coffees etc. In fairness I think the drive to Arlberg is very easy compared to the funnel effect getting into the Savoie Alps, done that many times and it always seemed a lottery once east of Lyon whereas the roads into western Austria are all motorways to within a few km of our accommodation.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ive done 3 trips to 3 valleys and LaPlagne in a Tesla. Have been in convoy with ICE vehicles and we estimate that on average the journey in our Tesla takes 1.5 hours longer than the same journey in an ICE car.
My opinion - happy to take a little longer - the comfort and cost well make up for it.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Dippy, Is it more comfortable than if it was an ICE vehicle? If so how?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Markymark29, simply put, for me personally I find my Tesla YP the most comfortable vehicle I have ever driven - I'm talking just comfort and ease of driving.
Plus plenty of room for luggage - including skis, boards etc.
Previously always drove in a Range Rover.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Grinning wrote:
@mooney058, not really sure how that progresses aiding an ev get to the Alps this winter? Maybe a fresh thread.
hm, realistic and not marketed range estimates are pretty useful to know for a long road trip. Don’t you think? Especially when some automakers are conservative, realistic and even underreporting the actual consumption while the likes of tesla are uber optimistic at best or cheating if reports of a special internal squad to shoot down their own customer inquiries about unrealistic range. The comments and sentiment about tesla tech “superiority” are then repeated over and over again. My point is - do not fall into marketing hype. Tesla my well serve the needs of those who own it but make that call after thorough research and see the risk of quality and reliability offered is the one you can accept.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Dippy wrote:
@Markymark29, simply put, for me personally I find my Tesla YP the most comfortable vehicle I have ever driven - I'm talking just comfort and ease of driving.
Plus plenty of room for luggage - including skis, boards etc.
Previously always drove in a Range Rover.
Interesting you find Y more comfortable than Range Rover. Before road/test drive I do the basic ergonomics test or how seats fit my 188 frame for driving and whether my youngest one (196 tall) would fit semi comfortably in the back. For my frame Y seats were not very comfy especially low lateral support and short seat/bench. Agree this is all very personal. Also read Y suspension is now more comfortable from when I tested it a year or so ago. When I tested Y suspension was very hard, uncomfortable and disappointing. Really surprised you find it more comfy than a Range Rover
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@mooney058, Perhaps the comfort is in the knowledge that he doesn't now have to watch the fuel gauge needle drop at an alarming rate. I've only only sat in a Tesla once and thought it had very hard seats, it was an early release one so perhaps improved.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Markymark29, possibly. My last car was 2014 bmw X3 2D. Very comfortable with sport seats and with a very good consumption - more than 900 km when driving from Belgium towards AT, CH, FR, IT Alps. Comfort seating and comfort in the knowledge that a full tank will take me where I need to be.
Been mulling about the EV for the last two years. After a series of tests still undecided. From the CBA perspective the newly updated Enyaq is the front runner. Possibly a second hand audi q8 (the older one). Nissan Arya only has 40:60 back seat folding and does not pass ski bag test . Actually the ski bad test is quite high in the consideration list
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 1-11-23 16:05; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@mooney058, re comfort - maybe being a petite female is where we differ?
I used to have to use a cushion to sit on in the RRover - not to boost my height (I'm not that small) but to stop my seat bones from aching - all i can say is that in the Tesla, no cushion needed and on a long journey whether I'm driving or passenger, I dont exit the car feeling stiff and desperately needing to stretch.
We've travelled with 3 people, skis and boards, etc etc - plenty of storage - I even had space to take my mattress topper (incase bed not comfy enough for me)
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Dippy, thanks, makes sense. Seat comfort, ride quality are important. Super that your current ride works for you. Besides car bits (range, chasis, etc), driver/passenger ergonomics are the two main considerations indeed.
Although I am unlikely to own a Tesla glad they made others move faster towards electrification. A local Shell jut opened 4 300kW stalls close to me. This in addition to the 10 (10x2) 11/22kW public charging stations within 600m radius from my place. Without Tesla’s effect it would not have had happened. In my books Tesla is like Ryanain (hate their experience) who pushed others to get try/do better.
For those interested I see EUR 0,49 - EUR 0,85 per kW currently in Belgium for those without any special plan. The new superfast 300 kW Shell are EUR 0,69 per kW.
For those who take their car and drive towards Luxembourg and pass through Brussels this is a good new place to stop - just off the motorway and next to two supermarkets and resto: https://maps.app.goo.gl/WZe5D1nTyJXeUsXz5?g_st=ic google does not show it open yet but it looks ready for use. So quick charger together with other comforts
@mooney058, We use Tesla Superchargers very rarely here in the UK - free charging for us courtesy of many solar panels!
However, found the Super Chargers in France excellent - and used Ionity once - just to check we could, incase we missed a Tesla charger.
Would really like to look more into possibly driving to Austria
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
mooney058 wrote:
Grinning wrote:
@mooney058, not really sure how that progresses aiding an ev get to the Alps this winter? Maybe a fresh thread.
hm, realistic and not marketed range estimates are pretty useful to know for a long road trip. Don’t you think?
Absolutely - which is why I gave real-life experiences in my earlier post
hm, realistic and not marketed range estimates are pretty useful to know for a long road trip. Don’t you think?
Absolutely - which is why I gave real-life experiences in my earlier post
Also agree. Fortunately there are countless reviews, range tests, etc which show real world EV range in all sorts of contexts. I learned when driving ICE cars that the consumption figures highlighted by manufacturers are not what you should expect to get when driving for real. This applies to EV cars as well, and nobody should expect to get the mileage that manufacturers are required to show (WLTP range, although other standardised tests are available).
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Markymark29 wrote:
@Dippy, Is it more comfortable than if it was an ICE vehicle? If so how?
Overall (IMHO) having done 22k miles in my Tesla (and owned 2 other EVs), the whole experience seems more relaxing and less tiring, perhaps it's the lack of engine/exhaust/drivetrain noise, perhaps its simply the more modern driving aids that my ICE didn't have, but overall, having driven Leeds->Reading, and Leeds->Southampton I arrive much fresher/less tired.
After all it is free
After all it is free
It's hard to put your finger on it. I had a 2018 BMW 520D SE, just about the pinnacle of comfortable saloon cars as you can get. I could get 800 miles out of a tank at motorway speeds and even going to the Alps with 4 blokes and a half width tope box, cruise set at 140km/h on the autoroute we got 650 miles out of it. Great car.
Now I have a Mustang Mach E, only the standard range sadly, company car allowance wouldn't stretch to long range, official range of 280. I love it, really comfy and lots of room and a very relaxing car to drive. Realistically I'm getting about 260 in the summer and 220-30 in the winter out of it. Maybe a bit limiting for a trip to the Alps, but we are flying to Salzburg this winter anyway. We did a 2000 mile 2.5 week road trip to France at the end of June though and it was great. Not limiting at all with the infrastructure, using Tesla and Ionity on the Autoroutes and most towns well set. But I wouldn't hesitate to drive it down to Val D'Isere! Just a different sort of planning.
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Just playing with a better route planner and altering the variables like speed, if I try and get a slow charge overnight near Dijon, rather than just doing DC fast charging etc. Does anyone know if the premium version and carplay display let's you change the configuration on the fly from carplay menus like charger choices, efficiency etc? Or is it still all on the phone with just route on carplay?
If not I'll stick with just sharing the route with google maps once built and Save the £5.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sun 19-11-23 14:01; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Going to Montriond Sat 30th Dec - just wondering about the merits of coming across the Jura round the eastern lake to Thonon and up the valley avoiding Taninges-Les Gets (which always feels really slow roads) on a Saturday lunchtime. I know this is technically slower and needs the swiss vignette, but would it avoid lots of slow transfer-day traffic?
I've done the Jura route a few times going towards the GSB tunnel and having driven down France that far on boring autoroutes, I enjoy the blast across the Jura roads. Just wondered if the slight time and cost increase offsets traffic up from the main Geneva to Chamonix autoroute
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
MHskier wrote:
Going to Montriond Sat 30th Dec - just wondering about the merits of coming across the Jura round the eastern lake to Thonon and up the valley avoiding Taninges-Les Gets (which always feels really slow roads) on a Saturday lunchtime. I know this is technically slower and needs the swiss vignette, but would it avoid lots of slow transfer-day traffic?
I've done the Jura route a few times going towards the GSB tunnel and having driven down France that far on boring autoroutes, I enjoy the blast across the Jura roads. Just wondered if the slight time and cost increase offsets traffic up from the main Geneva to Chamonix autoroute
We usually go via the Jura to Chatel but I doubt it’s worth it for you for two possible reasons. Firstly that is likely to be a busy Saturday so long queues for the border at Vallorbe (if you go that way). Secondly you have to get from N side of the lake so either via S side of lake is slow or via Chatel means a couple of passes. Or were you thinking of coming round W end of lake and through Geneva?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I have an eNiro and was delighted to find you can use high speed Tesla chargers if you pre-register, including at the Shuttle terminal. Makes all the difference, they are fast charging, reliable and lots of them. You'll get 80% charge in under an hour, which in cold weather probably means 160-180 miles between charges - but 220 on the first one ...
Also check you can charge fully at the other end - check with the hotel.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Wasting 1hr to drive a tiny 160 miles -- on a 2000-mile return journey from the UK to the Alps -- sounds cr*p.
Chop it in for a diesel. They can do 1000 miles on a single tank. Takes 5mins to fill.
Gives more time on the slopes.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
1000 miles on a tank of diesel? As optimistic as the EV manufacturers range estimations.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Perhaps its worth sharing my real world experience of the eNiro. We've loved it. The quoted range (265 miles) is understated if anything, 300 possible. You lose no range when traveling in traffic jams - so no panics.
And you can charge it almost anywhere ... cheaply, which is some compensation for not being able to refuel as quickly.
Fuel costs me about 3p per mile.
Sure I would rather travel further between lunch / coffee stops, but in practice the range works fine. London and back for me (from Stroud / Bristol) on a charge. In summer its 20% more. Had a great trip to the Loire, stopping once on way up, once on way down plus charge at the shuttle.
Much cheaper fuel, more comfortable and less of a guilt trip about the carbon footprint of our travel. Its not perfect, but we're very happy
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sun 19-11-23 20:47; edited 1 time in total
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Moorzee10 wrote:
1000 miles on a tank of diesel? As optimistic as the EV manufacturers range estimations.
We usually go via the Jura to Chatel but I doubt it’s worth it for you for two possible reasons. Firstly that is likely to be a busy Saturday so long queues for the border at Vallorbe (if you go that way). Secondly you have to get from N side of the lake so either via S side of lake is slow or via Chatel means a couple of passes. Or were you thinking of coming round W end of lake and through Geneva?
Yes know there may be a queue at Vallorbe - been twice there and once 20 min once <5. So you think the roads from Port Valais to Thonon Les Bains are slow as that was what I was thinking? Google sees 60kmh for that section which is ok ish
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Whitegold wrote:
Wasting 1hr to drive a tiny 160 miles -- on a 2000-mile return journey from the UK to the Alps -- sounds cr*p.
Chop it in for a diesel. They can do 1000 miles on a single tank. Takes 5mins to fill.
Gives more time on the slopes.
Its all dick measuring.
Spending more time hanging around waiting for a charge in total than it takes to fly.
Ill be driving to Heathrow & already getting range anxiety about leaving the car for a few weeks & having enough battery to get home..
I deliberately want the battery low on arrival so the meet & greet does not have fuel for personal use.
Perhaps its worth sharing my real world experience of the eNiro. We've loved it. The quoted range (265 miles) is understated if anything, 300 possible. You lose no range when traveling in traffic jams - so no panics.
And you can charge it almost anywhere ... cheaply, which is some compensation for not being able to refuel as quickly.
Fuel costs me about 3p per mile.
Sure I would rather travel further between lunch / coffee stops, but in practice the range works fine. London and back for me (from Stroud / Bristol) on a charge. In summer its 20% more. Had a great trip to the Loire, stopping once on way up, once on way down plus charge at the shuttle.
Much cheaper fuel, more comfortable and less of a guilt trip about the carbon footprint of our travel. Its not perfect, but we're very happy
This isn't a personal slight about that comment, but it does genuinely concern me about these vehicles.
I read this thread to get an honest and real experience detail from those conrtributors on here in offering valid description of what it's like to live with such vehicles. But from overview such as that link, then it does seem that commercial interest is excluding some significant elements as to the real impact they make.
Front line publicity would have it that there's only a utopian outcome, that it appears to fall into some significant concerns is completely ignored by the pro advocates
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
MHskier wrote:
Quote:
We usually go via the Jura to Chatel but I doubt it’s worth it for you for two possible reasons. Firstly that is likely to be a busy Saturday so long queues for the border at Vallorbe (if you go that way). Secondly you have to get from N side of the lake so either via S side of lake is slow or via Chatel means a couple of passes. Or were you thinking of coming round W end of lake and through Geneva?
Yes know there may be a queue at Vallorbe - been twice there and once 20 min once <5. So you think the roads from Port Valais to Thonon Les Bains are slow as that was what I was thinking? Google sees 60kmh for that section which is ok ish
I don’t do that stretch often but there are lots of slow sections and again a busy weekend is likely to make it slower still.
I think sensible opinion is that it is not utopia or a panacea - millions without their own drive can't charge at home, public charging network in UK is way off, rare earth metals and other mining concerns etc etc
Future developments like reducing lithium, cobalt, increasing energy density-so less weight, solid state, contactless charging for parking bays etc etc can help
But whilst easy to knock, hopefully it is - given the world's progression towards renewable energy continues - a step in the right direction in terms of reduced pollution, assocated health impacts and humany's efficient use of the energy we have at our disposal.
>90% efficiency for EVs Vs 20-40% for IC. Something that is rarely mentioned is that that low IC number excludes the energy cost of extracting, refining and transporting oil (appreciate this only works if compared with renewable electricity not gas power stations!).
But what is in play in the UK at least is a right wing press, v heavily influenced by some powerful lobbyist/industry friends who are pushing on an open door with their audience who just don't understand or want change that may v slightly impact on their luxurious western lifestyle. I completely hold my hand up here in admitting that I am going skiing so open to cries of hypocrisy.....but trying in having an ev, using it for holidasy by not flying and making changes at home trying to do at least a little bit.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 20-11-23 9:59; edited 4 times in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@ski3, that video has this in the text, which doesn't give it much credence IMHO
NOTE FROM TED: This talk only reflects the speaker's personal views and interpretation. Several claims in this talk lack scientific support.
After all it is free
After all it is free
kitenski wrote:
@ski3, that video has this in the text, which doesn't give it much credence IMHO
NOTE FROM TED: This talk only reflects the speaker's personal views and interpretation. Several claims in this talk lack scientific support.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Last year Shell made profits of $42,000,000,000 and by their own admission, spent a significant amount of those profits on ‘lobbying activities’. A part of which is indirect, anti-EV propaganda. BP’s profits were $72 billion, of which at least 70% is from vehicle fuels. The fossil fuel companies have everything to lose and nothing to gain from the increasing adoption of electric vehicles. Once you’ve owned an electric vehicle for a while you come to realise that there is a covert and substantial anti-EV campaign in progress. This is just a small part of that.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 20-11-23 13:31; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Whitegold wrote:
Wasting 1hr to drive a tiny 160 miles -- on a 2000-mile return journey from the UK to the Alps -- sounds cr*p. Chop it in for a diesel. They can do 1000 miles on a single tank. Takes 5mins to fill. Gives more time on the slopes.
Yes, but be careful where you park it, given the propensity of diesels to catch fire and take out every car in the vicinity, á là Luton Airport. 1500 cars written off because one diesel caught fire.
This is, of course, an unfair comment. And unrepresentative of the general body of diesel cars. Diesels aren't spontaneously combusting all over the country. Diesel cars are only 20-60 times more likely to catch fire than a battery electric vehicle (depending on which data source you use). And in any case the numbers involved are miniscule compared to the number of cars on the road.
Similarly, it's meaningless to say that you can't do a trip to the Alps in a BEV with a 'comfortable' range of 160 miles or so - like that of my Peugeot e208. It's entirely feasible but not the forté of that model. But then, I'd not drive to the Alps in a petrol or diesel 208 either. If I was to do it, I'd go in a car with a longer range, accepting I'd need to do a couple of half-hour charges en route to/from my overnight stop.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
. Actually the ski bad test is quite high in the consideration list