Has anyone who has really made this trip recently in an EV verify a) how much it cost in charging fees and b) how long it took? Calais to 3V or close - real world cost and time? (rather than routeplanner estimates).
(Viv's detailed description is excellent but somewhat further with an overnight stop. I'm used to a long day's driving, so looking for a comparison.)
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
There are too many variables to make it comparable. I did a journey in march 2022, but I had a challenge of using only free chargers and avoiding toll roads. It worked, i spent nothing on charging, and it took me day and a half to get to Geneva.
Then I took the same route in December, still avoiding tolls but was paying for charging. I chose chargers that were less than 25 cents/kWh though - so paid around 30 euros. The last journey took me late evening drive from Calais to Lille, overnight there to fill charge, and then 12 hours to Geneva.
But that’s not representative of “normal” driving as free roads are slower, and car uses much less energy compared to a 130km/h driving on motorways (the difference is about 50%!)
What I did notice though that charging infrastructure has improved dramatically in the past year, so the journey is very easy, but not necessarily cheaper if you drive at a motorway speed limit and charge for 80c/kWh on Ionity chargers
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Thanks alexsas and understood on the variables. I was asking for a cost and real time (without an overnight stop) on the motorways.
To compare against costs and additional time of free roads, an overnight stop (day off work!) and lower charging costs.
@robs12, the video iainm posted was from Aug 2022 £158 total cost. he also puts his times into the video
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@robs12, Just returned from Eurotunnel to Montchavin (La Plagne) - very comparable to 3V - in a Tesla MYP
I cant quote on cost (thats hubbys dept - but he will be able to give me an exact cost I'm sure)! but we left with 98% from Folkestone and arrived with 52% which stayed level during a very very cold week.
We had x4 stops (in france) at Tesla Superchargers - the total time we spent charging was 148 minutes. Could have been less but we wanted to arrive at destination with at least 50%.
Every stop was very easy with plenty of chargers available.
Also noted that a lot of the services now offer electric charging.
I would say this journey took us around an hour and a half longer than driving an ICE car - taking into account you would still need to refuel and have comfort breaks with general driving
The vehicle was fully loaded with luggage and x3 people and the drive down was minus temperatures the whole way - which does make a difference!
We found ABRP very useful - rather than rely totally on Tesla, which wanted to take us via Paris.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I am truly mystified why people choose cars where-
1) you have to spend dedicated time planning exactly where you will stop on a route to "refuel".
2) You have to sit and charge it for nearly ~2.5 hours to get to the alps.
What a waste of a life
But I trust the experience is truly satisfying for EV owners
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
While I'm not an EV owner, user, I do read this thread to see what's going on in real practical application of them.
I'd trust a honest review of this applied to a mountain trip rather than (it seems all of them are afflicted the same way) yt or tv reviews that generally start with someone screaming whaooooooo....thats so fast, to the camera.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I'll grab some popcorn quickly...
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I didn't intend to make it contentious @alexsas, I'm certainly not an immediate customer, but those on here using them offer quite informed view and a decent optic for others to see what this entails if they were considering purchse etc.
Just seem like honest reviews that people have taken the time to compose and post to me.
All seems good really
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Pyramus, Fair comment which I get
So the positive reasons - benefit of having a brand new vehicle with the reliability that goes with it (hopefully)
a spacious, comfortable vehicle to drive - along with all the up to date features available - basically a computer on wheels
Big reduction in cost against fuel - especially as diesel price higher that UK (well it was last week)
for some - the 'green' element
But mostly for us - the running costs (at home) are virtually zero. Our solar makes far more than we use. car charged at home, rarely have need to use superchargers
And yes the amount of time charging is frustrating - but this still can be offset against stops using an ICE car.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
yep - given the ski trip is a once-a-year experience, 2-3 hours spent charging is not that much of an inconvenience in the grand scheme of other benefits.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Pyramus wrote:
I am truly mystified why people choose cars where-
1) you have to spend dedicated time planning exactly where you will stop on a route to "refuel".
2) You have to sit and charge it for nearly ~2.5 hours to get to the alps.
What a waste of a life
But I trust the experience is truly satisfying for EV owners
Works for some, not for others. EV doesn't suit me for trips to the Alps (in winter at least) but besides that I manage 30k of domestic driving a year and there are really only a handful of times I need to plan where to charge. And one of the main reasons I don't want to take my EV to the Alps isn't just because of the faff/delay, but because I've already invested in all the kit (Michelin CC2's, snow chains, roof rack, ski-holder) for my other car to get it 'mountain-ready' and none of it (bar the ski-holder) would be compatible with my EV.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Pyramus wrote:
I am truly mystified why people choose cars where-
1) you have to spend dedicated time planning exactly where you will stop on a route to "refuel".
2) You have to sit and charge it for nearly ~2.5 hours to get to the alps.
What a waste of a life
But I trust the experience is truly satisfying for EV owners
Can be worthwhile to some people if it means they do not have to hire a car the other side or pay for transfers.
Personally, it’s not for me & I am an EV owner.
1 off cost to winterise the car (IE winter tyres)
Then I’d prob arrive at dover close to empty & after channel crossing fees, £150 charging eachway through continent (+ I would need 2 charges back in the UK)
Then costs are probably similar to me flying & parking the car for a week. Transfers may make a flight a bit more expensive, but not enough to make it worthwhile unless I wanted a car in the resort.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I now have an EV as a company car, we chose to take my mates Diesel S-Max for our January trip to Val D'Isere and will do so for as long as it's available to us/we are still allowed to drive diesels, because it is winterised, huge (no need for roof box, skis down the middle) and just makes sense.
However I am now doing long work trips in it (Surrey to North Yorks and back) and it is fine and do-able with one 30-40min charge and I bloody love the car. If push came to shove I would take it to the Alps. Planning on doing a couple of weeks road trip around France in it in June, so interested to get first hand view of the charging experience over there (non-Tesla).
This is a great thread for insight and real world experiences though, there is an honesty here that you don't get in the mainstream reviews.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
kitenski wrote:
@robs12, the video iainm posted was from Aug 2022 £158 total cost. he also puts his times into the video
Personally, it's the carbon minimisation that motivates me. re ongoing costs, we have Octopus Go tariff, gives us just 7p/Kwh if we charge between 0030-0430, so schedule the car to charge then
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Not sure how the coverage is, but Tesla allows non-Teslas on some superchargers. Could potentially bridge some of the gaps you're seeing, and also Supercharging got pretty cheap in France lately (w/o subscription or Tesla is comparable to IONITY w/o special subscription I believe). I'd second all advice on ABRP - play around with max speed too, going down from 130 to 120 max may only add a few minutes on the whole trip.
Wind and rain (esp.) suck out range so something to be on the lookout for.
And just to add - have just compared our charging prices to last year (for Tesla) and they were cheaper - although to be fair and honest the exchange rate was slightly better for last years trip in March compared to last week.
But overall still cheaper - whereas fuel prices seem higher than the UK!
I am truly mystified why people choose cars where-
1) you have to spend dedicated time planning exactly where you will stop on a route to "refuel".
I think you're overestimating the amount of planning required. On our most recent return (2nd return trip in an EV), the dedicated time planning was:
1. Whilst booking the overnight hotel and Eurotunnel, as part of the calculation of the Eurotunnel time I scanned some charging options on the way back. This took no longer than checking the weather forecast en route to check for any likely delays
2. En route, at each stop, spend about 5 minutes whilst drinking coffee / eating on a phone app checking traffic and picking the next stop to add to Google Maps (which we used for navigation).
On our first trip out I did spend more time in advance checking the charging stops, but this was also partly as this was the first time we'd driven this route (1st time to Austria, East of Innsbruck, whereas we've done 10+ trips to French Alps, and 2 or 3 to the Arlberg via Switzerland)
Our only vehicle in an EV, so we don't get to choose between this and an ICE for trips to the Alps. We expect to drive out twice per year, which makes maybe up to 10 hours per year additionally drinking coffee / eating whilst waiting for the car to charge, and maybe 30 occasions where we spend a few minutes looking online for charging points, instead of looking at something else online. Plus, of course, making a few posts on this thread
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@viv, did you drive from York?
After all it is free
After all it is free
@iainm, I think Lauren was mistaken when she said she could charge to 100% in 20 mins at a super charger? It really slows down above 80%???
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Yeah definitely can't go to 100% in 20min. Last 20% probably takes 10-15 min
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
@kitenski, yes the trips have been between York and Tirol. Last year was outbound to SkiWelt (Scheffau for first skiing day), and back from Kuhtai. This year was outbound to and from Kirchberg (though the last day we drove to Scheffau to ski there before heading back). Pretty much exactly 1000 miles each way, and total driving time between 16 and 17 hours (variation due to traffic and/or snow en route)
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@viv, thanks, do you go via the tunnel? We’ve driven a few times from leeds but family seem to prefer flying!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@kitenski, Yes, we use the tunnel. I've posted more detail on the route and charging earlier in this thread, and I'm intending to post detail on the most recent return trip
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
kitenski wrote:
@iainm, I think Lauren was mistaken when she said she could charge to 100% in 20 mins at a super charger? It really slows down above 80%???
It obviously depends on your starting point. Personally I would never charge my Tesla to 100% as my understanding is that this is not good for the long term life of the battery, plus as you observe the time to get from 90-95 and/or 95-100 is rarely worth it. I liken it to blowing up a bike tyre - the first bit is easy, the final part is much harder work
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I do on my Hyundai about twice a month or so before big journeys. Slow AC charge at home though. Never above 85% on ultra rapid DCs both to protect but also as stated charging really slows down after that so quicker for journey-time, to keep going and do another short eg 15% charge quickly, from a low state of charge, when nearly home.
The manual actually states you should charge to 100% occasionally as it helps calibrate the battery management system. I think Teslas might have a smaller buffer above "100%" so more chance of pack damage going that high on a regular basis.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I’ve been keeping an eye on Tesla supercharger occupancy on the route to/from the alps today, since it’s potentially the biggest day of the year for U.K. drivers going to and fro as some half terms end, and others start.
At no point (I checked at about 9am,12 and 3pm) were any of the sites fully occupied. I can only see the details for the ones open to non Tesla drivers, but there’s enough of them at strategic locations that it’s all I really care about. Main ones I looked at were Dijon, Geneva, Beaune, saint quentin, Chalon sur saone, and Troyes. Most of them had at least half a dozen spare, sometimes 20+.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@snowdave, Thanks, that's good to know. We used some Tesla chargers for the first time in our last trip to Austria (out in Jan, back early Feb before half-term), and there was plenty of spare capacity. They were also ~20 to 30% cheaper that the other rapid chargers we used (Ionity, Pfalzwerke). We used Tesla chargers at Folkestone (I think 2 of 8 were in use), Ulm (maybe of 40 in use) and Calais (again 2 of 8 in use).
If I'd checked, we should have used the Tesla charger in Cambridge on the way back, rather than trying the A14 Cambridge services, which was the only time on the whole trip where no charger was available
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@snowdave, that's good to know. I won't need to travel on peak transfer days, but if the Tesla SuC network isn't getting swamped on half-term Saturday bodes well for days when I will want to charge.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Pardon the slight deviation in topic, but it is related.
Most of those commenting here are EV owners, but I have the option of hiring an ID3 from GVA next month & I’m tempted… and curious.
How common are charging points in resort & en route (as opposed to on the autoroutes from the Channel)?
How does an EV perform in the snow (it will have winter tyres)?
Are rentals fully charged when you pick them up or do you have to build in a charging stop on your onward journey?
As we are arriving about 8pm and driving a couple of hours south, are the charging stations open 24hrs?
Probably heading to Maurienne Valley via A43 & Chambery.
Should I go for it, or wait until my summer trip to Annecy & St Gervais?
If you’re not more than 150km from the resort when you pick it up at Geneva, you’re probably fine as you can use the granny charger at your location once you arrive. (Taking extension cable to be sure might be a good idea)
I can’t believe a rental company would provide an EV with anything less than 90% charge though recent lousy experience with Enterprise wouldn’t put anything past them.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
cardweg wrote:
Pardon the slight deviation in topic, but it is related.
Most of those commenting here are EV owners, but I have the option of hiring an ID3 from GVA next month & I’m tempted… and curious.
How common are charging points in resort & en route (as opposed to on the autoroutes from the Channel)?
How does an EV perform in the snow (it will have winter tyres)?
Are rentals fully charged when you pick them up or do you have to build in a charging stop on your onward journey?
As we are arriving about 8pm and driving a couple of hours south, are the charging stations open 24hrs?
Probably heading to Maurienne Valley via A43 & Chambery.
Should I go for it, or wait until my summer trip to Annecy & St Gervais?
My wife drives an ID3 at home, you will be doing well if you can get to the Maurienne Valley at motorway speed from Geneva - it’s approx 175kms depending on whereabouts in the valley you are going to, though you should be able to charge en route at one of the various service stations which will add to your time. Will also depend on the weather as the cold does deplete the battery somewhat quicker than warm weather. VW also advise not to charge the battery to more than 80% each time as it degrades the battery so car hire company may well follow this advice and if you have the heater on over 18degrees the battery also loses quite some range.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 19-02-23 8:32; edited 2 times in total
AFAIK the ID3 has at least 2 different battery sizes (58KWh or 77KWh). At conservative (not going much above 110Km/h) motorway speeds in typical alpine temperatures (0 to 5 C in valley) we get at least 5.5 KM/KWh on the flat, so you should expect 300+ Km range on the flat. Gaining altitude will reduce range; I've not calculated this in detail yet, but a rule of thumb would be to lose 5 Km range per 100m altitude gain, so maybe drop 50 Km off the range.
Based on the above, if you pickup the car fully charged, then you've lots of contingency for getting to resort without charging.
If you need to charge en route, almost all are open 24hrs - the only exceptions are a few in private premises that lock their gates when closed.
I've not driven much in snow with an EV (with all season tyres), but I don't see any reason for performance to be any different from that of an automatic ICE.
I don't know about charging in French resorts, but I expect there is some/ In Austria a local power company (TIWAG) have put in a decent number.
There are several different ways to pay for EV charging (contactless credit card, RFID card, mobile app), and any charger may use only some of these. We've used ChargeMap, who provide an RFID card that works with a large number of chargers abroad (we've used this for everything abroad, other than Tesla chargers). I'd suggest signing up for ChargeMap and ordering an RFID card (it took about a week to arrive) to give you more charging options
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@iainm, Does the 2019 M3 have a heatpump? Also interested in why she thinks Ionity would be much faster? Surely it will depend on the chargers surely? ie a 250kw Tesla charger will be faster than a 150kw one, and Ionity go to 350kw but can the Tesla M3 accept that charge rate?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
kitenski wrote:
@iainm, Does the 2019 M3 have a heatpump? Also interested in why she thinks Ionity would be much faster? Surely it will depend on the chargers surely? ie a 250kw Tesla charger will be faster than a 150kw one, and Ionity go to 350kw but can the Tesla M3 accept that charge rate?
As the car charges, the rate of charge decreases dramatically. It may initially start charging at >250kw (if the battery is <20% charged) , but once it gets to about 50% charge, that charging rate drops to about 150Kw. At 80% charge it's down to 50Kw.
This is from 2019, but I doubt things have improved much since then - in fact some manufacturers have decreased charge rates to improve battery life.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
honest review of this applied to a mountain trip rather than (it seems all of them are afflicted the same way) yt or tv reviews that generally start with someone screaming whaooooooo....thats so fast, to the camera.
