 Poster: A snowHead
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Looking for some advise on driving to Chatel from Birmingham (Never done it before). How long will it take? Is it better to take the Ferry or Chunnell? Is it a lot cheaper than flying to Geneva and hiring a car (for 2 people)?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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tp023, I'm sure someone will come along and give you exact details soon enough, but it is going to be somewhere in the region of 17-18 hours drive, and covering what? 1100miles? So, see what you'd expect your car to do per gallon, take a percentage off it for the extra weight and the drag from the roofbox, and come to a figure....multiply by the cost of fuel, add the ferry/tunnel/whatever, and there's your figure...
Simple 
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tp023, viamichelin says it's about 12 hours driving for 718 miles, which sounds about right to me. We used to drive to Morzine and Les Gets regularly and your journey is about an hour longer than ours.
That doesn't include the channel crossing of course. And the tolls are nearly 50 Euros each way.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Is it drivable in one day for 2 people sharing the load?
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It depends on your tolerance of driving!
Havent specifically done Chatel, but we regularly do resorts in France, Switz, or Italy from Sussex... Share the driving - 2 hours at a time - dont stop except for quick loo breaks.
We used to take a 10pm ish ferry and drive through the night .. and were usually there as the lifts opened the following morning. We liked it because the roads were so quiet and not stressful.... and we got in to resort before the queues on the roads built up.
But now getting too old for that! So tend to leave home around 5.30 am - get around an 8am crossing and get to resort for dinner - between 7 and 9pm depending on the resort.
You are 2+ hours further from a port...
Have done ferry and tunnel. Ferry works well if you want a break and quick kip. .. or hot food - and is generally cheaper. But eurotunnel is faster and more flexible
Most important thing is to factor in the time of day/traffic. Birmingham to dover could take a looooong time at the wrong time of day...
Also roads can be very busy in to resorts on a Friday/Sat.
With kit we found the car more relaxing and flexible
Happy travelling
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Whether it's cheaper than flying is impossible to say. Cheaper than flying at half term - possibly. Cheaper than flying mid January on low cost flights? Definitely not. It's driveable in one hop if you have a high tolerance for driving and if you don't encounter bad weather - for example fog or snow on the autoroute. The former will, if you have any sense of self preservation, send you off the road to a nice hostelry, the latter will slow you down and possibly delay you for many hours. But if you're lucky, no bad weather, no big traffic, no problem. When are you going?
If you look at the viamichelin.com website you can put in your type of car, and the cost of petrol, and it will work out the cost for you. their estimates of driving time are very accurate in my experience, but obviously you have to add however many stops you take.
You will also need to allow for buying snowchains. With just two people, for a week, I wouldn't drive. There are loads of cheap flights from East Midlands and Birmingtham airports.
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We do what jayne durham did and go through the night, via Eurotunnel from Sussex (8 hours drivetime from Calais to Les Gets). Much more flexible and less hassle than flying with children & kit but as pam w says, I doubt it would work out cheaper with just two people. Unless you really need a car once in the mountains you might find it cheaper to fly & book transfers - why hire a car just to sit in resort?
If you do decide to drive, lots of advice on here from people who drive regularly and have it down to a fine art 
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tp023, Some of my advice would be.
If cost is the only reason, fly and get a bus.
It will\should be cheaper than flights and car hire.
Take the tunnel.
Take chains.
If no undercover parking, take care with antifreeze.
Allow for toll fees, and or get a Telepeage tag.
Driving through the night may save time, but you'll be very tired that first day.
Plan your journey to either be in resort v early (for the first lift) or late on in the day.
Worst part of the journey could be Birmingham to Dover! Time of day can be crucial.
2 drivers, ensure docs and ins paperwork are correct.
Minimise stops to hot swap drivers and refuel.
Fill up at the bottom of the mountain, its cheaper and you'll also be ready for the return.
If a diesel then ensure last fill is alpine diesel or it can jellify in cold temps.
Be realistic on the journey timeframe, you know what you and your vehicle are comfortable with.
Finally, try to chill out on the journey.
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I'd agree with pretty much everything BMF_Skier, says. We go from Norwich through the night, hopefully arriving in time for breakfast, then skiing all day - but we are very experinced at long drives. 2 drivers is fine, but with only 2 in the car it is not cheap, we did some calculations recently and it came out at about £450 return for a car to the alps (can't remember exatly where - but it was a ball park figure to work to). What car you have affects the cost of fuel, but also the comfort of the trip, we are always in large estates or people carriers which are generally very relaxed on the motorway - a 1.2 hatchback might not be quite as comfortable!
Benefits of driving are that it is much less hassle taking your skis and boots, no luggage limits other than those imposed by your car, and you can get 8 days skiing on a 7 night holiday by skiing both the first and last Saturdays.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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it came out at about £450 return for a car to the alps
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that sounds about right to me - and will be more if fuel prices rise further. Add cost of any overnight stops. We have done it overnight too - I am happy driving through the night if the weather is good. Clear, starlit nights on a French motorway are no hardship with two drivers. But it isn't always like that and I do think you need to be ready to stop if conditions are poor, and not drive to a timetable. Diesel we buy locally in France (Albertville, Sallanches etc) is OK to minus 15. If it is going to be colder, you can get an additive - I've had a bottle in the car for a couple of years, but never used it. I'm not aware that there is a specific "Alpine diesel" which you buy at a pump - what would you look for?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks for the info. I'm planning about 9 trips next year and was thinking about the cost of it all. I was working on a door to door flying time of about 8 hours (1.5 hours to and from airport, 4 hours checking in/waiting (total both ways), 4 hours flight time return allowing for slight delays (total both ways), 2 hours collecting/returning cars and collecting luggage (total both ways), 4.5 hours driving to and from resort) with the cost equating to about £600 for 2 people inc car hire. (£50 taxi to and from airport, £200 flights, £320 car hire and £30 fuel).
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pam w, simply gazole d'hiver. Having being caught out by non-winterised fuel in Turin,and forking out 120€ for a new fuel filter, I wouldn't like it to happen again. Not specifically Alpine but it is different in the winter apparently. The Excelllium (?)/premium diesel was advertised as good to -25 last winter at the Total garage in Bourg d'Oisans.
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You know it makes sense.
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A well as winter diesel and antifreeze, make sure you use decent premix washer fluid good for -20C or lower. You'll get drunk from the fumes, but at least you'll have a chance of seeing where you are going.
Guess whose next car will have the winterpack, which includes heated washer bottle and lines 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Helen Beaumont, you may wish to know that the Total garage seems to have stopped selling fuel. Cheapest places are Intermarche at Vizille or the garage at Le Freney.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lizzard, we tend to use Intermarché to be honest anyway, but it doesn't always take a UK debit card in the automatic pump. The one on the way to Gap does though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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One of the niceist way we have done it is use flexi time at work to take fri pm off. Drive from Gloucestershire to ashford on the Fri afternoon, catch the eurotunnel about 1630 which gets you to France 1800 their time. We then drive for 6 hours and find somewhere to stay of the motorway (usually about Lyon). Get up at 7am on the road for 8 into valloire by 11am skiing by 12 noon on empty slopes. Saterdays also seem to have a habit of being powder days which works well!!! Never found is as expensive as £450 quid to drive but I have a very efficient TDI audi that does nearly 50mpg even with roof box 4 adult and travelling in excess of 140kph. Its def cheaper than flying when there are 4 of you and you have the flexibility to do day trips.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Last weekend I had to visit our apartment in Ste Foy. Usually I have my foot to the floor all the way and average 26-27 miles to the gallon. This trip I set the cruise control at 75mph there and back and averaged 33 mpg Also I only filled up at a Calais supermarket and an Albertville supermarket €1.40 per litre against €1.53 per litre on the autoroutes. I have calculated that I got and extra 120 miles per tank on speed alone and saved €10.00 per tank.
Worth thinking about on your next trip to the mountains!
Vehicle in question, Renault Espace 2.2 tdi auto. Total cost €462.00 inc tolls and ferry
_________________
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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tp023, I drove to the Alps for the first time in April to VT for the EoSB, sharing the driving with kiwi1. I was looking forward to the trip as I was thinking of driving for future two week trips were the luggage capacity would be a great benefit. We got the ferry as kiwi1's big 4wd Junkibus c/w mega size roof box (containing 30 pairs of skis!) sneaked in at the car rate but would have had a lot more expensive commercial tariff through the chunnel. We had a very good run to Dover but it still took 3 hours from the A1/A52 junction on the east side of Nottingham.
We arrived very early for our ferry but managed to catch the earlier one so we left Blighty at about 9.45pm on the Fri evening & then drove through the night to resort. It was raining & foggy a lot of the way which kept the speed down but this was off set by the lack of traffic. We arrived in resort at about 9.30 Satmorning & I was absolutely knackered even though the two of us had done 2 hour driving shifts. I just couldn't get any decent sleep & both kiwi1 & myself both had one of those 'extended blinking' moments whilst driving which was scary. That late in the season meant that the road up to the resort was quiet & the snow line was at 2000m so we had no delays getting up to resort but in the main season &/or with heavy snow it would be easy to add an hour or two to the journey time.
On the return leg we left early at 5.30am on the Sat morning & got back to Lambley at 9.30pm, with the journey time from Dover still being just over 3 hours. With the return journey being in daylight it was considerably less tiring than going.
I'd certainly drive again, especially for a two weeker, but I'd certainly use JimSearle's method of getting a good way in to France & then overnight in a hotel ready for an early morning start which would still give a few hours skiing in the afternoon. And on the return leg I'd ski the Sat & then drive a good few hours across France before overnighting & then doing the rest of the journey in one go on the Sunday.
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Saterdays also seem to have a habit of being powder days
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I've noticed that too! It's done specially to cause max disruption for the normal transfer day. No snow all week, then it chucks it down on Friday night. I tell all my guests that if they insist on arriving on a Saturday they'll have to get themselves from the airport.
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I drive on average twice a year to the Alps using the Newcastle/Amsterdam service.
The forward journey is always 650 miles in one day and it is "reasonably" relaxing because we could start with a good night sleep on the ferry which docks Amsterdam 09:30. I do all the driving and usually need a 20 minutes nap after 2/3 of the journey.
We always spend two days on the return journey as the Ferry leaves Amsterdam 16:00. We could pick any German city along the River Rhine to stay over night.
Driving is reasonably stress free if one can go for two weeks. We can hoop to a further far away place deep into Italy after the first week.
The biggest reward is with a car is one can do as many resorts as one wishes (even one per day) and cut down the cost of accommodation by stay away from the expensive in-resort accommodations.
There are 670 resorts in the Alps!
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tp023, Over the years I've driven many long holiday trips, Mcr to Prague, Mcr to north Spain, in various vehicles from a Lexus to a transit van. Over the last 4 seasons I've driven from MCR to the French Alps. I tried as many different options as you can imagine. You can do the trip without stops, but I now take one day longer going and coming back. Early posters are correct, even with two drivers taking breaks you never really get the rest you think you will.
If long distance driving 800 miles is something new to you, be well prepared and rested beforehand. Don’t underestimate tiredness. Be realistic on the time required. Use a good quality vehicle, quality maps and a sat nav can be useful.
Crossing the water - I've tried P&O ferry, Speed Ferries and the Chunnel. My choice is the Chunnel, although it can be more expensive, it gives greater flexibility and saves time. On the Jan trip this year, I tried the North Sea ferry from Hull to Zeebrugge. I wouldn’t use this method again. Constant engine noise made sleeping difficult and it was as expensive as the fully flexible tunnel, It left Hull late and docked even later in Zeebrugge (3 hours).It meant that I hit peak hour traffic in the wrong places, this then added more stress to a very much longer day. I had expected to arrive in VT by early evening. Despite rushing, I didn’t get there till nearly 9pm, only just made the hotel evening meal.
I'll now always overnight on both outward and return. Many hotels provide room rates, so providing you aren’t fussy (and book early) you can get a room for as little as 40e. Warm clean, and double bed. Split between two, real good value.
Travel timing is key. Please don’t underestimate the trip to Dover. I have done the mad dash to the ferry a few times after earlier serious delays! Speedferrys only have a few services each day. So being late isn’t an option.
Avoid arriving in resort mid day on the change over day, IMHO arrive early or late.
For me, the best time to arrive is V early in the first day of the holiday. I've tried to overnight as close as I can (max 2 hours away), arrive in resort before 8:0am park up grab a lift pass, some food and be on one of the first lifts. As this is usually change over day the slopes will be much quieter.
I have also arrived late on and sacrificed the first days ski-ing but then had an extra session on the leaving day. I found this the most restful
On the return I will now always take an extra day. I also book an overnight hotel on this leg. It amazing how trying to leave a ski resort early in the am can cause issues! Traffic, more stress, even upset as you rush to get off. By packing the car ready the night before, this allows skiing till lunch, even time for a good meal. By leaving resort early\mid afternoon traffic is reduced. Drive what ever distance you feel comfortable, for me that has been as far as Calais. But that was a long drive after a morning ski-ing; in future I'll go as far as Reims or Troyes, then overnight. That put me in Calais the next day. Then I'm back in Manchester late PM or early evening. Still means a 14 hour day but its broken into manageable chunks.
If you do choose an early start, then a one hit return trip in daylight is practical. But very tiring!
Good luck!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm going to Tignes on 29th November for 3 weeks, and although admittedly it is cheaper for one person to fly and do the transfer, I thought I would drive this time, I like driving, long distances don't bother me at all and I quite fancy giving it a try plus the removal of the luggage allowance problem for 3 weeks worth of gear and kit is a good thing! At least your skis can't get lost in the car. Plus last time I went for more than a week and went by plane I got fleeced by the laundrette in resort washing my clothes ready for the next week. It's not cheap.
Parking when I get there is not going to be a problem as the chalet I'm stopping in has an underground garage at no extra cost. I worked out the fuel will cost me about £220 for the return trip based on 42 mpg for 1700 miles approx in my 1.2 Renault Clio and at £1.20 per litre to overestimate plus the Eurotunnel and motorway tolls. Have bought some snowchains ready. My tyres on my car will need replacing by the look of them by time we get to November so thought I'd have some winter tyres put on until April time and then take them off. So all sorted there. Eurotunnel I can get for "free" using Clubcard Deals vouchers at 4 x the face value.
I am keen to do it in one go (with stops of course, but no overnighters). I can sleep in the daytime of the Friday before I set off so it's not as if I'll have done a day's work first and then be setting off, that would be too much for me to drive through the night then.
I thought I'd set off on the Friday night at about 5-6pm, take the 10pm ish Eurotunnel crossing and then drive through the night to Tignes with some stops on the way. If I feel tired then I can stop off at a hotel or something (are they open 24 hours?). Hopefully then I should arrive in Tignes about 10.00am on the Saturday morning allowing for some stops. Because it will be first day of the season I'm hoping I can get into my room and have a kip when I get there. Being there for 3 weeks means I'm not too worried about skiing on the first Saturday, I'm happy to go to sleep and get up in time for afternoon tea.
On the way home I thought I'd set off early that morning or wait until late and go back then. I prefer an early departure though.
Can anyone who is familiar with driving to Tignes see any potential flaws in my plan? Do you think the roads will be alright as it will be very early in the season? Last year mind you there was a big dump of snow the first week of the season, although I did the transfer by coach last year so I didn't pay too much attention to the driving conditions.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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VolklAttivaS5, I would plan on stopping for the night anyway. I have driven out to Tignes in one stint, but always stop somewhere now. It just messes up your sleeping patterns to sleep during the day.
I try to get a slightly earlier crossing then stop in Reims or Troyes. I get petrol from hypermarkets not on the autoroute.
The road up isn't particularly steep. If there is snow then I would prefer to arrive in the afternoon or early evening than first thing in the morning, another argument for stopping somewhere for the night.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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VolklAttivaS5, you can generally get into the cheap hotels on the outskirts of towns (near the motorway exits) with a credit card, at any time. It's also worth stopping for a 20 minute nap, if you get very tired. However, as you have no time constraints, it might be better to drive during the day, which will be much less disruptive of your body clock. Start early in the morning, cross at mid-day, arrive in Tignes in time for a well deserved nightcap before turning in.
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VolklAttivaS5, According to the AA the the average price of unleaded in France is already 116.79 pence - I fear allowing for £1.20 per litre in November is excessively optimistic! If the current rate of increase was to continue we could be looking at nearer £1.40 to £1.50 by then.
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You know it makes sense.
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rjs, pam w, thanks. I figured the traffic wouldn't be as bad drving through the night though, then again it will be very early season. I know what you mean about sleeping through the day re body clock, I could always stay awake when get to Tignes until the nightime of the Saturday, then again I'm sure even with a sleep when I got there I would still sleep that night after I've had dinner and a few vin chauds! It would be righted again on the Sunday anyway with a full day of skiing although I take your point about the safety overnight stops.
RobinS, yes you may well be right. Yikes £1.50 a litre whatever next?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Saying that even if the petrol goes up continually driving still means I can take as much stuff as I like, plus it's nice to set off and depart when you fancy it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I figured the traffic wouldn't be as bad drving through the night
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this is France, you know! Driving down the motorway from Calais it's very unlikely you'd encounter significant traffic problems at that time of year. Your diurnal rhythms are at a low ebb around 4 am and on an empty motorway without even the tail lights of a lorry in the distance.... On your own, I would think you'd enjoy the journey more during the day time.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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VolklAttivaS5, check that the euroteunnel sots you want are available on Tesco's tokens. When I tried to book for a summer trip, even though there was availability on the train, the allocation for tescos had gone. In the end I've decided to send the tokens back and get my vouchers back as they woudl expire before I coudl use them, I can then exchange them again fro tokens and have another go another time. Tescos said i was the second person to report this to them and they were unaware there were any allocation limitations.
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holidayloverxx, I've not had that problem myself and I have travelled at some peak times, and booked late. Better get my New Year one sorted quickly then. Another job to my list for tomorrow. Eurotunnel used to accept the vouchers for my dogs £30 admin charge too, and have now decided that they won't. How long before the offer disappears I wonder?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Topsmoke, ah. Very true, although I thought by that leaving at 6pm by time I get down to the M4 linking to the M25 it will be after 8.30pm at night? Is the traffic still heaving at that time? Plan B was to leave at say 11pm as you suggested and then catch a 3am ish crossing, arriving in resort about 2pm-3pm the following day. Thought that I might get stuck in the resort traffic then though because everyone will be on the Saturday transfers into resort mid day.
pam w, I know the autoroutes would be quiet whenever pretty much from what I have read on here, but thought if I got to Tignes early morning I would miss the resort traffic transfer buses arriving throughout the Saturday morning, lunchtime and afternoon? Other threads seem to say to either arrive very early or late about dinner time to miss the Saturday resort traffic?
holidayloverxx, ooh good tip, thanks holidayloverxx I will check about that.
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Ooh another thing about the fuel. I've just got back from Cheltenham for the evening and my car says it did an average of 44 mpg which is a bit higher than the 42 mpg I worked on to begin with to work out the approximate cost of fuel earlier on, but not a lot.
On having a rethink on more like £1.50 per litre as RobinS suggests, which seems a bit more realistic for petrol price in a few months time, total fuel cost should be about £265 now.......
Topsmoke, since you live quite near me does £265 sound like the right amount to be estimating to you? In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter how much it turns out to be to be honest, what will be will be, but what made me think about it again was, the other day, when the petrol light came on I put a tenner's worth of fuel in, and when the petrol light came on again I had done about 180 miles.
On that basis, then 1700 miles return journey should only cost me more like £95, which is less than half my original cost for fuel of £220 in my earlier post? Seems a bit strange that, perhaps my car is shelling out quite a bit more than 44 miles to the gallon like the dash says? 
Anyway! A bit anal I know but thought I'd ask!
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VolklAttivaS5, It sounds as if you have not been to Tignes at that time of year before. You don't have to worry about large numbers of airport transfer coaches, very few people there will have flown.
Your fuel consumption figures may drop a bit at a steady 130km/h, what speed to you plan to drive at ?
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rjs, I went to Tignes the first week of December last year and flew (although will be going 29th November this time) and our transfer coach was queuing up in traffic for some time as I recall, but don't know how bad that was, whether that was "normal" or that was "busy" I don't know. It wasn't as long as a previous January to Val Thorens though. It's the first day of the season so I appreciate there will be less people flying into Geneva and then driving to Tignes/Val D'Isere than say February obviously.
As for speed of driving, well probably same as motorways here about 80mph. What's the speed limit on the autoroutes? I was going for steady progress rather than foot down all the way there.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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VolklAttivaS5, We find that driving through the night is more relaxing, and strangely the time seems to pass qiucker than in the daytime. maybe because your body is not expecting meal stops or anything I find that I can just keep on cruising at 130kph hour after hour without any problem, and the traffic is much lighter - it is more relaxing driving on a completely empty motorway than one with normal amounts of traffic, even if that traffic is not enough to slow you up.
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FAQ
