Not all hire cars will include snow tyres or chains, the only time they are included free of charge is when there is a legal requirement for all cars to have them, So in Switzerland it is between November and March. In France there is no legal requirement for winter tyres so they are always a paid for extra, apart from when booking certain groups of car with Avis. there are certain roads in France that you cannot drive on unless you have snow chains in the car (they do not have to be fitted). We have written a series of articles on this and the France on is here - https://indigocarhire.co.uk/blog/france/car-hire-in-france-with-winter-tyres/
As for ski racks, @Villz was right. they aren't always practical and for what some companies charge for them you may be better using that money for a larger car and carry the Skis inside. This isn't always practical however if you have a full car. In our experience, the racks provided only hold 2/3 sets of skis, if there are 5 of you travelling with luggage and skis, one rack may not be enough.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@RobGillespie, I think the moment may have passed.
@foxtrotzulu you maybe right, but I stumbled across this post when searching on google so maybe others will too. Just thought I would try and help.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
All my cars are Rear Wheel Drive. Most hire cars are [s]Wrong[/s] Front Wheel Drive. I find it significantly easier to put chains on [s]W[/s]FWD cars because you can turn the wheel left and right to see what's going on behind it.
Point is, if you're intending to drive to the alps in your own RWD car, then it's even more important to practice, practice, practice. I also carry a proper jack and full tool kit, and generally find it easier to jack the car up and fit the chains with the wheel off the car. It means you're not rolling about in the slush trying to fit the things - in the dark - soaking wet - cold and miserable. I can't match Lewis Hamitons pit crew times, but recon I can do it in less than 5 minutes a corner.
ETA - ahh, I see the forum doesn't support strikethrough
when does everyone change to winter tyre here in the UK? Im thinking any time soon
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
when does everyone change to winter tyre here in the UK?
Everyone doesn't.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Or rather, not everyone does!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
pam w wrote:
Quote:
when does everyone change to winter tyre here in the UK?
Everyone doesn't.
In fact, very few people do.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Supposed to be better under 8 degrees. I've had mine on for ages because I had a good set sitting in the garage and my other tyres were getting a bit worn.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Steilhang wrote:
@boredsurfin, I didn't think anyone would try to drive around the alps in winter on summer tires! Doesn't matter whether you have 4wd or not,
I followed a BMW X5 leaving the World Cup weekend last year. At the first decent incline it went down the hill, all four wheels locked up, hitting armco one side and coaches the other. It was like a pinball machine.
We had spoken to the driver, he had no chains and no intention of waiting for the road to be ploughed. There wasn't a straight panel on the car when he eventually stopped.
I rent approx 15 cars from GVA each winter and all are 4x4. They must be on winter tyres by Swiss law, so no one should be charged extra for what is a legal requirement. The last time I fitted chains was the last time I had a2WD car. I willingly pay the upgrade cost to avoid doing this again and if the chains damage the alloys like mine did (suspect this was between fitting and stopping 50m later to do the final tighten), any potential saving could work out a very false economy.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
pam w wrote:
Quote:
when does everyone change to winter tyre here in the UK?
Everyone doesn't.
Everyone that has them then.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Mother hucker, me too.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Mother hucker wrote:
pam w wrote:
Quote:
when does everyone change to winter tyre here in the UK?
Everyone doesn't.
Everyone that has them then.
By the end of the month for me. By then average temperature will have fallen so the winter tyre rubber compound will become useful, and in anticipation of taking the car to the Alps in the first of second week of December. Switch them back to summer tyres at some point in April.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I've been stopped a few times at the bottom of Alpe d'Huez when there has been heavy snow by police wanting to check if I had snow tyres on.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mine went on my car last Monday.
It has been about 4C some mornings so no point leaving them in the garage. OH does them but his car is going to the local garage tomorrow as he has the tyres swapped on the rims.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
bar shaker wrote:
Steilhang wrote:
@boredsurfin, I didn't think anyone would try to drive around the alps in winter on summer tires! Doesn't matter whether you have 4wd or not,
I followed a BMW X5 leaving the World Cup weekend last year. At the first decent incline it went down the hill, all four wheels locked up, hitting armco one side and coaches the other. It was like a pinball machine.
We had spoken to the driver, he had no chains and no intention of waiting for the road to be ploughed. There wasn't a straight panel on the car when he eventually stopped.
I rent approx 15 cars from GVA each winter and all are 4x4. They must be on winter tyres by Swiss law, so no one should be charged extra for what is a legal requirement. The last time I fitted chains was the last time I had a2WD car. I willingly pay the upgrade cost to avoid doing this again and if the chains damage the alloys like mine did (suspect this was between fitting and stopping 50m later to do the final tighten), any potential saving could work out a very false economy.
We found last season the GVA rental companies have stopped providing chains for 4x4 fitted with winters. We did only once drive through heave snowfall going over a 1400m pass with no issue. We have an annual excess protection policy for £50 to cover any issues such as you experienced with the 2wd. I’ve just booked a bunch of cars but mostly opted for 2wd estates but will upgrade closer to the date if a big snowfall is forecast.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
SharkEnergy wrote:
Driving for first time this year. Obviously need to book snow chains. Do you NEED snow tyres too? Just want to be doubly sure. Also is it worth buying snow chains over here rather than paying the £70 ish with the car rental?
So, time for my annual post of the 'tyre and chain chart' :
A very rough summary of what works best in which conditions, ranging from summer warm and dry on the left to winter snow and ice on the right. You can argue forever on where the boundaries of each tyre type should be set, but I hope it's useful. Basically, your problem with summer tyres and chains is the area where you're transitioning from wet tarmac through slush and snow, alternating back and forwards. Once you're on continuous snow, then fine, you have the chains. I'm thinking about conditions like this:
where your chains are in the boot and they're not going to work on thin snow/slush and alternating tarmac/snow.
So, if you're hiring then yes, get winter tyres included. Really, most places should have them (e.g. GVA) but as you can see from the chart, you still need chains for the worst conditions. Which may be as simple as a steep drive out of your underground parking or a steep hill that's been skimmed into an ice sheet by chainless, summer-tyred NL and GB drivers where you're staying, as well as any mandatory enforcement by police, due to extreme conditions. Personally, I'd get the chains with the hire car, then it's your rental company's problem to provide the right ones. Not yours after a delayed flight and a drive to your accommodation in a snowstorm at 10pm when most of the outlets are closed and your hire car seems to have a funny wheel size that no one carries.
You may not get chains with a hire 4x4 / SUV because sometimes, the standard wheels/tyres fitted can't take them (not enough space behind the tyre for them to safely rotate). You may find that some AWD models (like BMW saloon xDrives, Audi saloon Quattros) are OK, because their standard wheel sizes are small enough to take chains. But if no AWD/4x4s + chains are on offer, you might be better off hiring a car with winter tyres and chains vs a wintered 4x4 without chains. Up to you to make the judgement n balance of probabilities etc.
Traction setting: Oh, and whatever you go for, make sure you know what traction setting to set when you do hit slush/snow. Which can be a significant challenge if the hire car's manual is only in German and French. It can be very non-intuitive. On a BMW, for example, it's the car-with-wiggly-lines button you press when you hit snow and you get TRACTION displayed on the instrument panel. Then when you're back on tarmac, you press it again and TRACTION disappears. My UK Owners Manual takes about 400 obscure and confusing words splattered with various acronyms like DSC ON and DCT OFF to explain it, so translating it from German/French would be a nightmare.
^^^ all very good advice but turning off traction control in a Merc not so easy as requires diving into the onscreen menus. Also good to know how to start in 2nd gear if driving an automatic.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@LaForet - I'd not seen that infogram before and it's far better at describing why winter tyres are a good thing than I was in conversation with my obdurate FiL - I shall forward it immediately!
My winters went on 10 days ago. Couple of frosts since then when crossing the cotswolds for work early so don't feel it's too early.
Hi @MHskier thanks for the complement re the diagram. I did it myself, to try and explain to a performance car forum why it's a good idea to have separate winter tyres, even if they never encounter snow. The cars under discussion were RWD 330BHP models: so I stretched the centre section of the chart a bit just for emphasis. In this case, most owners wouldn't fit all-seasons because the compromise on summer performance is too great. Owners were complaining that in winter their traction control was 'lighting up like a Christmas tree' - well, yeah ... perhaps coz' it's February not August? Their summers just couldn't cope.
And in another context, I used it to emphasise that once you're on snow, really, the aim is to defer fitting chains for as long as possible. The discussion in that case was over just how much of a gap there is between the limits of all-seasons vs full winters. This gets complicated by the fact that there are all-seasons that are winter-biased enough to get the '3 peaks + snowflake' certification. And some winters that are warm-biased enough to sit in the same 'zone' as winter-biased all-seasons i.e. the usual variation between different individual brands.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I drove to work this morning, +4 degrees, very heavy rain and standing water on the motorway. It's not just snowy and icy days when I am grateful for the winter tyres.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@LaForet, are you sure about your view on summer vs winter in rain?
My understanding was that summer tyres are actually better in heavy rain than winter tyres due to a much more stable structure.
Also anyone playing with traction/stability control settings should be aware of what they are changing - on my car it's a "go direct to hospital" switch.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@snowdave {are you sure about your view on summer vs winter in rain? } Pretty much, yes, in the winter months. But I can see the chart is perhaps misleading. What I meant to show in the chart is that once you get into the winter months (perhaps I should have placed 'cold+damp' with an arrow pointing right) then all-seasons and winters have the advantage over summers, even if it's just wet and not snowy. I might change it to make this clearer - the 'heavy rain and standing water' rubric isn't very meaningful and perhaps I'll take it out.
The article you referenced is comparing summers to all-seasons i.e. the left end of the chart above, and concluding that even with their deeper tread pattern, and even in the wet, all-seasons aren't as good as summers in summer. Which I agree with. I notice it's a US site, and over in the US, all-season tyres have been around longer than in Europe. In the early days, a lot of frankly false claims were made about how good all-seasons were. Or at least very context-specific, misleading claims were made. So there's a lot of scepticism still about all-seasons, which is reasonable, even 'though they've advaced tremendously in the last 5 years. The only thing I'd take issue with in the article is where they say 'summer tyres are performance tyres' which is not accurate. There are summer performance tyres and winter performance tyres. And summer quiet tyres and winter quiet tyres. And so on. Given the US background I can see what they're getting at - that if you have a performance car, then you don't want to fit all-seasons because all-seasons aren't performance tyres - which I'd agree with.
And I'd agree - always read your specific vehicle manual. And if it's not clear (and mine is truly badly translated from the German, I'd say) have a chat with your dealer service department. I know BMW drivers who say 'Sport+ sounds sort of like super-sporty - Surely, it wouldn't let me set Sport+ if it wasn't safe to do so?' and I think 'You really, really don't know what you're doing.' [Here's a video of me in a BMW M14i0 330BHP RWD doing wet weather training at Goodwood UK, with Sport+ engaged. It took me about 15 minutes of this before I could even do a standing start in a straight line and this is just a wet track, no special surface treatment and not particularly cold weather: http://youtube.com/v/py3eQTxaKr4]
But on the other hand, what I described for snow conditions in my BMW is exactly what I should be setting my car to when I go onto snow. Not to do so throws away a major safety aid. But as always, read your specific vehicle manual, and if that's not clear, ask your dealer service dept.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
@foxtrotzulu you maybe right, but I stumbled across this post when searching on google so maybe others will too. Just thought I would try and help.
