 Poster: A snowHead
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| Winterhighland wrote: |
| For all people scoffing at the concept of an outdoor ski area in England, I suspect that with regular snow making kit you could get several extra weeks sliding in at somewhere like Allenheads most winters. |
with better road clearing and a carpark near the bottom of the lifts, would Swinhope not be a better place to spend the money?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Winterhighland wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Exactly - they don't charge more because it is worth more, they do it because they have to |
You can knock the 20% VAT off for a start for a fairer comparison. Comments that Scottish lifts and pistes are all for beginners is not only rubbish, such comments are dangerous. |
VAT's a fair point.
My other comment was meant to include intermediates (as well as beginners). Can't think of any pistes at Glen Shee that are aimed at advanced skiers (the Tiger is way overhyped and would be a red run in Austria, the one off Glas Maol has a relatively steep pitch for all of 30 metres).
As for talking about 'all' Scottish lifts/pistes, I think I've made it pretty clear that I only have (limited) knowledge of Glen Shee quite a few times.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Monium wrote: |
| it is easier to fly to the Alps than to try and get round the M25 at 5pm. But you are conveniently ignoring your competitors across the channel. |
quite possibly, but where would you fly from?
it took me 16 hours to get to bulgaria once (door to door) although the flight is only 4 hours
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mr_big_ad, he's a spit and a toss from Luton, Heathrow in an hour or so.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| with better road clearing and a carpark near the bottom of the lifts, would Swinhope not be a better place to spend the money? |
Not necessarily. If you are making artificial snow you want to consider minimising the ablation of the snow pack as well. Aspect, elevation, relative shelter to prevailing winds from higher ground all come into play. Partial tree cover at the side of the field helps reduce wind and weather exposure. Off course technical viability is not going to be the same thing as commercial viability.
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holidayloverxx, I thought Luton Airport burnt down
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mr_big_ad, I can't help thinking that you are getting the cart before the horse here.
You start on the basis that there is now a super duper snow making machine which makes UK artificial snow skiing viable, then go on to look for a suitable hill that is near large centres of population. Failing to find any such hill you move ever outwards from the SE and eventually end up at Cross Fell in the North Pennines.
I'll leave aside the huge problems of 1. Getting someone to stump up £10 million to get the thing going, and 2. The absolute impossibility of ever overcoming environmental objections to bulldozing huge tracts of hillside in a national park. You now have your ski resort on a remote mountain a long way from any centres of population. If you've given up on the easy access for lots of people thing, why not put your super duper machine somewhere with an existing ski infrastructure, that gets plenty of natural snow, keeps it for longer than anywhere else, and is relatively high, ie Aviemore (or one of the other Scottish resorts).
All you have to do is agree some sort of profit share with the Cairngorm lift company, and watch the money roll in as the crowds flock to the, now, dependable and abundant snow on the Cairngorm. Simple.
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build it and they will come...actually I'm surprised we don't have a firm policy on helmet use for the new slope yet, I mean, first things first.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
| objections to bulldozing huge tracts of hillside |
Contrary to popular belief you don't need to bulldoze huge tracts of mountain side for snowsports, indeed you'll get much more interesting and varied terrain if you don't!
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| Spud9 wrote: |
mr_big_ad, I can't help thinking that you are getting the cart before the horse here.
You start on the basis that there is now a super duper snow making machine which makes UK artificial snow skiing viable, then go on to look for a suitable hill that is near large centres of population. Failing to find any such hill you move ever outwards from the SE and eventually end up at Cross Fell in the North Pennines.
I'll leave aside the huge problems of 1. Getting someone to stump up £10 million to get the thing going, and 2. The absolute impossibility of ever overcoming environmental objections to bulldozing huge tracts of hillside in a national park. You now have your ski resort on a remote mountain a long way from any centres of population. If you've given up on the easy access for lots of people thing, why not put your super duper machine somewhere with an existing ski infrastructure, that gets plenty of natural snow, keeps it for longer than anywhere else, and is relatively high, ie Aviemore (or one of the other Scottish resorts).
All you have to do is agree some sort of profit share with the Cairngorm lift company, and watch the money roll in as the crowds flock to the, now, dependable and abundant snow on the Cairngorm. Simple. |
It looked to me like glencoe would benefit from the machine as they have a nice plateau where you could build a lake and it's the closest ski area to large centres of population.
Cairngorm needs snow cat served skiing on the east side of the hill where the snow goes!
An IDE made slope going from Braemar to the base of beinn a bhuird would be nice.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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mr_big_ad, Its not so easy with snowmaking, U make references to Vallåsen skiresort in Sweden?, before to start the ground must be frozen to a deep of 10cm, is this happens in this area you are talking about? and the humidity must be lowe, I think that is a big problem for the skimaking in Scotland, so I think that is a bigger problem in England as well, Its also very expensive to make snow (energy). About the water you only need freshwater, thats not a problem, To make the snow its also need to be cold temperature fore a longer period, its not a good deal to make snow in the nights and its melt down in the days, I think anyway the biggest problem will be to find a financier to this project.
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Mr Technique, ha..thats so crap 
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You know it makes sense.
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well done!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| freeheelskier wrote: |
| mr_big_ad, Its not so easy with snowmaking, U make references to Vallåsen skiresort in Sweden?, before to start the ground must be frozen to a deep of 10cm, is this happens in this area you are talking about? and the humidity must be lowe, I think that is a big problem for the skimaking in Scotland, so I think that is a bigger problem in England as well, Its also very expensive to make snow (energy). About the water you only need freshwater, thats not a problem, To make the snow its also need to be cold temperature fore a longer period, its not a good deal to make snow in the nights and its melt down in the days, I think anyway the biggest problem will be to find a financier to this project. |
The mean temperature iin winter is probably between -2 and 0 for the top and bottom elevations of the area where the artificial snow was to be made.
This particular type of snowmaking does not need cold temperatures, but as you say, there is little point making it for it to all melt the next day.
This is why Crossfell was chosen, as it has a north facing bowl at a height of 600-900m.
It is the only occurence of this kind of climate until you reach cetral scotland http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/ukmapavge.html
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 30-03-11 11:43; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Spud9 wrote: |
| You start on the basis that there is now a super duper snow making machine which makes UK artificial snow skiing viable, then go on to look for a suitable hill that is near large centres of population. Failing to find any such hill you move ever outwards from the SE and eventually end up at Cross Fell in the North Pennines |
I came up with the closest location that would work as a complete solution.
Travelling time wise, i suspect that from the south east of england it would be easier to get to Cross fell that Snowdon because of the motorway network.
From the moment you lock your front door to the moment you get on the first chairlift in resort, there would be a huge difference between skiing in england and getting a flight to a french resort. Unless you could walk to the departures lounge and had only hand luggage.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Regarding centres of Population, these are the top 10 areas of population in england over 300,000
1 Birmingham 1,016,800 Metropolitan borough, City (1889) West Midlands
2 Leeds 770,800 Metropolitan borough, City (1893) West Yorkshire
3 Sheffield 534,500 Metropolitan borough, City (1893) South Yorkshire
4 Cornwall 532,200 Unitary authority Cornwall
5 County Durham 508,500 Unitary authority County Durham
6 Bradford 501,700 Metropolitan borough, City (1897) West Yorkshire
7 Manchester 464,200 Metropolitan borough, City (1853) Greater Manchester
8 Wiltshire 455,500 Unitary authority Wiltshire
9 Liverpool 434,900 Metropolitan borough, City (1880) Merseyside
10 Bristol 421,300 Unitary authority, City (1542) Bristol
7 of those are within a 3 hour drive of the proposed development
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You seem to have missed London off that list...
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london is a collection of smaller areas, i guess thats why it is not listed.
I think despite its HUGE population, we can't prioritise people in the south east, as there is not enough local natural snowfall to make the experience any different to that found in a snowdome.
Also all of the hills with a decent vertical face south in the south East. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Why not build a big hill down there?
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Simply dig a giant hole in Essex and install the snow machines down there. I've been down caves, and they're never very warm. This is to do with getting closer to the centre of the Earth, which is made from a giant ball of ice, almost the size of a house. Also, you should install a Skitrac machine which will give you literally an infinitely long piste.
More info here: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1287465
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Mr Big Ad's idea has all the scientific rigour and business sense of a 14 year old boy inventing a perpetual motion machine.
Assuming he's serious. I think he's more likely to be an ironic troll, of admittedly moderate prowess.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Make sure the on-site hire shop only stocks Rax skis as well.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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cathy,
here you go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_England_by_population
1 Greater London Urban Area 8,278,251 67 1,623.37 5,099.4 Watford, Croydon and many localities of broadly similar size
2 West Midlands Urban Area 2,284,093 22 599.72 3,808.6 Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Dudley, Walsall
3 Greater Manchester Urban Area 2,240,230 57 556.72 4,024.0 Manchester, Salford, Bolton, Stockport, Oldham, Rochdale, Bury
4 West Yorkshire Urban Area 1,499,465 26 370.02 4,052.4 Leeds, Bradford, Wakefield, Huddersfield, Dewsbury
5 Greater Glasgow 1,168,270 48 368.47 3,171.0 Glasgow, Paisley, Coatbridge, Clydebank, Motherwell
6 Tyneside 879,996 25 210.91 4,172.4 Newcastle upon Tyne, Gateshead, North Shields, South Shields
7 Liverpool Urban Area 816,216 8 186.17 4,384.4 Liverpool, Bootle, Litherland, Huyton, Roby, Crosby, Prescot, St. Helens
8 Nottingham Urban Area 666,358 15 158.52 4,203.6 Nottingham, Beeston and Stapleford, Carlton, Long Eaton
9 Sheffield Urban Area 640,720 7 162.24 3,949.2 Sheffield, Rotherham, Chapeltown, Mosborough/Highlane
10 Bristol Urban Area 551,066 7 139.78 3,942.4 Bristol, Kingswood, Mangotsfield, Stoke Gifford
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 30-03-11 11:34; edited 1 time in total
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so that is 8 out of the top 9 within 3 hours drive
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You know it makes sense.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| I've only skied two days in Scotland and even Glen Shee has ace potential with skins, and I've heard that Glen Coe and Cairngorm have better terrain (getting to any of them with public trnasport is next to impossible though!). I'd love to be able to get over to Glen Coe!! |
The Scottish Citylink coach service from Glasgow to Fort William stops at the Glencoe ski centre - it takes just over 2 hours.
Edit: Oops, just noticed that your list of locations starts with Aberdeen. I guess that rules out a day trip!
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 30-03-11 13:58; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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mr_big_ad, I still think 3 hours' drive (i.e. 6 hours' round trip and £60 worth of petrol) is pushing it for a day trip location. It would have to be spectacularly good to warrant that. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but I can't see any way it would be financially viable.
I also love the idea of skiing in Scotland, just to be able to ski on home-grown snow, but when investigating the cost a long weekend there worked out more expensive than a week in the Alps.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| mr_big_ad, I still think 3 hours' drive (i.e. 6 hours' round trip and £60 worth of petrol) is pushing it for a day trip location. It would have to be spectacularly good to warrant that. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but I can't see any way it would be financially viable. |
It could be more central, but the conditions would rarely be as good, and they would need to be good a lot to justify the investment.
Maybe a smaller development down south to prove the concept on 1/6th of the budget, then a bigger development if it proves to be a success.
Newbury, Hindhead, Snodland?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What a hoot
mr_big_ad, do you live in Brighton and can I claim my 5 quid?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I hope you're not insinuating what I think you're insinuating, Roger.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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On Sunday I skied at Nevis Range (by Fort William and not so far from Glasgow). [see here ] Though warm winds had reduced the front to the 2 main runs, the back had full width cover of superb snow with lots of ways down both on or off-piste, from the 2km ridge to the Braveheart lift 1,500ft below.
Admittedly the entry is a bit steep which reduces the numbers who can ski the back, but on a weekend with the crucial "Braveheart lift on the back working there were perhaps 20 people skiing the whole mountain (which must be similar to the number of lifties, ski patrol etc). I was shocked, but do you think your hypothetical place could do better?
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 30-03-11 15:05; edited 3 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've no idea whether mr_big_ad is a troll,but I can't see any harm in having a wildly speculative discussion about some fantasy island version of the UK , where skiers have all they could wish for.
I've long argued that Milton Keynes would be substantially improved by building a 10,000 foot Alp beside it. Snow would form naturally, even glaciers for summer skiing. Milton Keynes would become a primary destination for all mountain sports enthusiasts, the Chamonix of North Buckinghamshire. A friend in the quarrying industry calculated that such a mountain could be built by using only 40 years' stone output from the world's quarries.
Alternatively, conditions at the Scottish resorts could be massively improved, both the weather, and the snow, by simply enclosing the slopes in a huge refrigerated bubble with a removable roof for when it snows.
Actually, if I could have access to 20km of piste and 8 lifts, with say 300m vertical, I would be prepared to drive for three hours to get there for a days skiing, and I'd pay £50 for a day lift pass.
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| snowball wrote: |
| but do you think your hypothetical place could do better? |
no where near what is on offer in scotland on a good day at one of the bigger resorts, think more like the lecht but 5 hours closer to the majority of english people
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| Spud9 wrote: |
| I've no idea whether mr_big_ad is a troll,but I can't see any harm in having a wildly speculative discussion about some fantasy island version of the UK , where skiers have all they could wish for. |
i dont know what a troll is, but from googling it, i am not being mean, so that would mean i'm not a troll?
| Spud9 wrote: |
| Actually, if I could have access to 20km of piste and 8 lifts, with say 300m vertical, I would be prepared to drive for three hours to get there for a days skiing, and I'd pay £50 for a day lift pass. |
yeah you would, lots of others would join you, probably not me though, as i live in Southampton
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| Quote: |
It could be more central, but the conditions would rarely be as good, and they would need to be good a lot to justify the investment.
Maybe a smaller development down south to prove the concept on 1/6th of the budget, then a bigger development if it proves to be a success. |
With an IDE snow maker the 'old rules simply don't apply anymore'. So surely you take the snow to the population, not stick to the old rule of the population travelling to the snow?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Develop small snow machines that you can strap to your ski tips. <sings>He shall have piste wherever he goes.</sings>
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FAQ
what a strange thing to say - what are Cornwall or Wiltshire then, which are included on your list? London is at least a city, and quite a large-ish one at that 
