Skiing Europe/Chris Reynard - Children's ski holiday left in ruins.

A snowHead

Mr Marmot, nice one thank you, what p's me off the most is the company that owes me a few thousand had over £5M turnover last year Evil or Very Mad

Ironically because they failed to pay me I fall below the level of income for which I have to pay court fees so it won't cost me anything wink

Although I guess if I use enforcement officer Bailiffs I will since they are not employed by the court.

Hopefully by the end of next week I should know if they are somehow going to try and contest what they owe, if they don't it's summary judgement time I guess

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

D G Orf, Good Luck!

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Alastair Pink, many thanks

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A friend always called the plumby Chris Reynard "Slippery"

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A luxury holiday maker- all v smart you know - is AITO who I do not trust after their handling of this case...and as a result I am booking elsewhere.
Business tends to understand consumer crowd power, Im a crowd of 1 so far!

After all it is free

noskitrip,
Whilst I appreciate your feelings at losing the price of a ski holiday, to start highlighting other companies for attack when they have absolutely nothing to do with your complaint is simply vindictive.

Can I suggest that you edit your post and delete the name of the other TO.

Or you may wish to start by boycotting the supermarket where the alleged perpetrator of the theft shopped, what about his bank; maybe you could picket them

Then there would be his wife’s hairdresser (they must have some of your money), you could follow their customers home and bang on their front door all night.

Does he have a car – where did he buy it (they also have some of your cash). Does the car use petrol, you’d best be off down to his local garage (more cash or yours there I’m sure).

Etc
Etc
Etc

I worked for the company you are angry at a few years ago. I didn’t get paid (more than was paid by parents to send a child on his trips). At the time I was skint and not too please (to say the least). But I put it down to experience and moved on,

Lets face it, you simply ain't going to see your cash again - you know it, so does everyone else, so now may seem an appropriate time to do the same and move on.

Wayne, the point is not that there may be anything wrong with a business just that AITO have proven themselves to provide no sort of security. Frankly given their sluggish handling of this case and general handwashing I'm surprised any reputable tourist business wants to be associated with AITO. There was supposedly a point to AITO in that it was supposed to be a beacon of comfort to consumers which they have been all too ready to renege on.

noskitrip is just pointing out if it isn't ATOL (which Scott Dunn is, see below) he has no means of ensuring his money is safe now AITO have withdrawn any financial guarantees. It's an entirely reasonable position to take given the propensity of TOs in general, not just ski related, to go bump suddenly. I question the wisdom of anyone shoing the AITO Assured mark prominently on their website - despite the fact that this seems to be almost meaningless.

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fatbob,
So, if you really have the time, why not go after the AITO directly, through the courts. IF you are correct then they will pay up. If not they wont.

Sorry but I still think that by trying to enlarge this into an industry wide approach is vindictive (and a little sad).

Move on. Stuff happens. I paid for some curtains last year in a shop that I have walked passed every day for years. When I went to collect them the shop has folded. Yeah, not happy, as I would think they knew they were going to close when they took my cash. What can I do to get my cash back. Sod all. Now I just happen to know they have started a new shop. But (being as Mrs_W is a lawyer) I also know that approaching that new business will simply not end up we and my dosh reunited.

Like I said, Stuff happens.

No-one likes to think they have been done-over (it can be incredibly debilitating, if you allow it to be) but to keep dwelling on it would seem to be a pointless thing to do - unless you like being seen as a victim.

The cops can’t do anything. The banks won’t. AITO have washed their hands of the whole thing. The insurance Co. have done the same.

If you want justice then someone should go to court and see what happens, it would be only justice as you wont get any cash. Everthing else is just a waste of time; although I tend to feel that going to court would also be in this case.

As I said, put it down to experience and move on.

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Scott Dunn are ATOL as well of course. Number 2471.

noskitrip, ludicrous, here's a list of others you can campaign against. Good luck... http://www.aito.co.uk/corporate_memberslisting.asp

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Bode Swiller,
Every single company that provides flights has an ATOL, hundreds of thousands of em.
It is a legal obligation to keep chucking cash at the government each year so MP's can swindle it back on their expenses.

So are we. We "have" to be, I would get done by the cops if I didn’t have an ATOL.

This is just silly.

Have fun

Wayne, I know that rolling eyes

. Just pointing out that, from a consumer protection angle, they were more than just AITO members.

You know it makes sense.

This Reynard guy seems to have some sort of previous! But the noski holiday guy seems to be a whinger! Has he made any contribution on any other thread? Seems to me that in his heart he knows he has lost his money! Probably would be better for him to find some other activity to spend his time on! Would be much more healthier for him is suspect!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Bode Swiller, Thanks, poor eyesight, post corrected.

Wayne - I've got no loss to have a case, I don't really care other than that I probably won't book a holiday with a AITO member now if the AITO name is all the protection they offer and the sum is material enough to me. It doesn't mean it's not interesting to me as a case study in weasel-like behaviour from anyone and everyone who might be responsible for the failings of the system here. There seems to have been no progress from AITO since they withdrew their financial guarantees last August yet members are still using the AITO assured mark.

Perhaps I'm wrong and AITO are putting the finishing touches to a big settlement to ensure every family wronged by Reynard is fully compensated in the spirit and letter of their Press Release of 4 January 2011 where they state "When consumers buy any holidays through an AITO member, they are protected" and the chairman puffs "AITO Assured is likely to become the industry gold standard for protection and quality and will reinforce AITO’s credentials as the organisation that puts its customers first.”

Wanna bet? Maybe I should read "customers" as "members"?

A snowHead

fatbob, +1
As another person with no involvement in the Skiing Europe/Chris Reynard saga, the only fact to have emerged from these events that may influence my future behaviour as a potential customer of a tour operator is that the "AITO Assured" scheme with its guarantees of protection has proved worthless and about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Unless and until AITO fully compensates those affected customers and re-instates their AITO financial guarantees then it will have zero credibility in my eyes.

A snowHead

fatbob, in the case of Soctt Dunn, the AITO logo links to the AITO home page, which has a link leading to what AITI assured means. AFIK Scott Dunn is a perfectly respectable company. I'm not comfortable with a campaign to boycott them unless a SH has evidence of something going badly wrong.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

To tell you the truth I have never seen the point in AITO or any of the others like it.

If you book a holiday with an ATOL bonded TO (like us wink

) and we go belly up, David Cameron will give your cash back, what else do you need.

What is the point of all the rest (for flight based trips). Ok it may look good on websites and they'll tell you they will stick to this or that codes of conduct, but if the person at the top is git, you're not going to get anywhere anyway.

Oh well. I still say it's time to move on, I know it's not good (he still owes me as well), but hey, lets all man-up (or woman-up or non-defined-gender-orientated-person-up or Confused

), and get on with more important stuff - life goes on.

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achilles, it's not about Scott Dunn. AITO Assured means that the member has some sort of financial protection, which might in fact be void if the member in question has misrepresented to obtain it such as when they are in financial difficulties. That's the circularity which caused AITO to withdraw any statements of its own guarantee after the event with Reynard. They've now had plenty of time to clarify the legal position and reinstate sufficently bold statements as to inspire confidence yet they haven't perhaps relying on everyone behaving like Wayne and moving on. If AITO feel this is unfair perhaps Derek Moore would like to come here and give us an update, after all it happened on his watch.

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fatbob, Well put Smile

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AT LAST......
Bankruptcy hearing against C.R. has been listed for the 21st June 2012, it was unable to proceed while the criminal investigation was going on.

After all it is free

Fantastic, just to see him skirm finally. Shall we all turn up at the hearing and find out why, like all other greedy fraudsters, his real assets are conveniently in other people's names. Don't know how people like this live with themselves.
btw at least listing the other TO here may raise it on their radar and they can drop AITO membership for being worthless.

fatbob, I wasn't trying to excuse AITO, merely saying that I did not think there was a case presented to boycott one of their members, Scott Dunn, which noskitrip seemed to be doing.

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snowjoe, I'm pretty certain that such a hearing isn't something you can view from the public gallery, more likely done in a small room. Hate to say this but it is probably doing him a huge favour - he's basically kissing his personal creditors goodbye. What should happen (but probably won't) is that someone investigates what happened to all the money he received from schools but didn't then pay out to hoteliers etc.

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Once declared bankrupt (unless he pays up) it is almost certain that the Insolvency Service and DTI will investigate his role in SE and he will be banned from being a director or having an influence in the running of a company. Should he breach this ban (he has had one before so could be looking at 15 years) he would face prison.

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Bode Swiller, if he is made bankrupt it will mean he can't serve as a company director for a few years

D G Orf, I doubt he cares about that, he'll just crack on as a sole trader. If not the option is to find some mugs to be Directors of whatever Ltd company and he work there.

You know it makes sense.

Bode Swiller, as stan the man, say the hearing date has been set. If it's a public hearing then providing there's physical room and you are not a witness, you are entitled to attend. I have a feeling it could be a popular event and would be wise to arrive early! rolling eyes

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Bode his ban from being a director would run for many years after his bankruptcy is over. He can be banned for up to 15 years. The ban includes have an influence in the running of a company.

The Insolvency Service can also undo any deals that have sold assets in the last 7 years, should they be deemed to have sold at less than fll value.

I think he will be in for an uncomfortable time.

A snowHead

As with so many of the court's powers, will anything really be done? If a dishonest man is struck of the Register of Directors, it will not stop a dishonest man from getting some sap to front for him! Also as a matter of interest has the Insolvency Service undone many of these rogue Directors transactions in the past and if so, why is it not known about to the greater public?

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Mr Marmot, I'm definitely in favor of number 3, Items 1 and 2 I'm not so sure of, where fraudulent trading has occurred then yes to both, but occasionally companies will go bust owing money because for example others have not paid them, a company and it's directors should be held responsible for debts where they have been dishonest but not where they themselves have been screwed over.

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After all it is free

Mr Marmot, No doubt your tongue is firmly in your cheek! Does a Directors "stupidity" encompass him or her hiring Mr., Mrs., or even Jr Marmot?? TBF if someone has been dishonest they should not get protection from the law, but without company Directors and those willing to risk their own monies and assets then the PAYE community would be far less than they are today! If you are advocating more unemployment fair enough, but most employers would not be of the same ilk as Mr. Reynard, if indeed he has been dishonest!!!

Mr Marmot, I'm inclined to agree, but in my limited experience these people always try to come up with some excuse as to why they are not paying, besides who's to say what classes as stupid.

Personally I'm of the opinion that once a contract is entered into both sides should keep to that contract, if changes need to be made fair enough but both sides must agree.

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So the existing system is O.K. then? The amount of people of losing money because of the inadequacies of controlling the existing way that some crooked/unwise way people can do business in the UK is at an acceptable level. i.e. as Wayne suggests, chalk it down to experience and move on?

Roy Hockley suggests that there are very few dishonest business owners. Since my own business has survived for over 30 years I will accept that Roy's view must be right otherwise my business wouldn't have survived at all! However, if I had been able to recover all the money owed to me over the years, along with recovering all my costs in trying to do so, I could have retired years ago!

So do most SnowHeads think that generally there is very little wrong with how we treat debtors in the UK, or how we treat those who run their businesses so badly that it puts others at a financial disadvantage?

I know what my own view is, I am just interested to find out if there is anyone who shares it.

It will also be interesting to find out what happens to Mr Reynard

Help!!

Skiing Europe/Chris Reynard - Children's ski holiday left in ruins.

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