 Poster: A snowHead
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It's interesting that no one seems to really be blaming the insurers, as far as I can see AM Trust were supposedly covering Skiing Europe for many years, yet only when the crisis occurs did they actually appear to check their paperwork and miraculously decide that Reynard had lied to them at some point when he originally took out the insurance, thus AM Trust appears to be able to wash its hands of the whole affair.
I think this is what AITO is concerned about, the ability of insurers just to walk away at any time
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm pretty sure AITO and its members are pointing the finger pretty hard at the insurers but I've no idea what due dilligence they are expected to do. I know as a consumer my insurance isn't worth the paper it's written on if I fail to disclose a preexisting illness or lie about my road accident history so if someone fails to disclose a director disqualification when asked or files unaudited accounts which are somewhat creative then I can see the parallel.
The issue really is that the coverage is for the benefit of someone other than the policy applicant so I really don't know how the law would interpret it. IANAL but from what I know of commercial contracts a primary concern in drafting is in identifying a clear resolution to "what happens if something goes wrong?" e.g. the other party lies to us or fails to live up to their obligations. Accordingly I'm astonished that this "loophole" has only just been uncovered as it would seem a logical question - what happens if the TO is already in financial difficulty or makes less than 100% disclosure at the time the policy is entered into?
Perhaps as AITO seems to have been so blindsided maybe they are guilty of being a bit too much in the camp of "all us TOs are thoroughly good chaps" to have thought through these issues. Maybe if they survive they'd be better having some representation from cynical consumers in their board?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This featured on You and Yours again today - listen again here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b012r99g
A woman from Aito was explaining their point of view as stated above. She said they have a team of 5 people who have been working for 5 weeks on this case. They want all schools affected to contact them so they can establish the complete situation.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Stephen101 has disappeared?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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lightningdan, no.
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looks like Leedsunited was right after all 
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[quote="leedsunited"]Stephen101,
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fortunately it is not held by the AiTO spokesperson, who made it clear that they had looked into the insurance arrangements
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| leedsunited wrote: |
Yes but was the mention of insurance just a cursory statement, did they mention or discuss his policy in detail?
If the conditions of the insurance policy has in anyway been compromised then will it not become null and void?
I am sure somebody mentioned that if it was found that he was operating frauduently then his insurance policy would not be worth the paper it was written on.
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Has Stephen 101 now changed his mind about how nailed on his insurance cover was for the return of everybody's money 
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rayscoops, 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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leedsunited, it is quite interesting but when you look back over this thread Stephen101 was wrong on just about every major call he made; from his initial interpretation of the schools' status under the Regulations, the time it would take for bankruptcy of SE/CR, the effectiveness of insurances/bonds, the validity of what the AiTO lady said etc. etc. ... 
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Where is Scarlett pimpernel101, achilles do you know?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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leedsunited, lightningdan, Maybe Stephen101 is actually Maynard? 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Jivebaby wrote: |
| leedsunited, lightningdan, Maybe Stephen101 is actually Reynard? |
Hahaha.
He will be along in a minute to deny it.
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lightningdan,
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| He will be along in a minute to deny it |
Possible if he's on bail
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You know it makes sense.
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| Jivebaby wrote: |
lightningdan,
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| He will be along in a minute to deny it |
Possible if he's on bail
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Probably playing golf.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rayscoops, We all knew that, just that every time you tried to tell him you were lambasted with "I am mightier than thou and i know better" obviously he was CR and i claim my £5 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| when you look back over this thread ......... |
Are you serious?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ccl, Metaphorically speaking of course, but having been on the receiving end of some of his repeated and ultimately incorrect assertions, his SE/CR themed existentialism is somewhat indelibly imprinted upon my memory
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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News Flash - Stephn 101 last seen at the reception desk of a Turkish hotel insisting that his insurance is all in place even though his tour operator has gone bust and why should he pay twice.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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leedsunited, Cruel but fair.
They do not have wifi where ever (Chris) stephen101 is.
Hope by some weird quirk of fate he was not actually Amy Winehouse.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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lightningdan,
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Hope by some weird quirk of fate he was not actually Amy Winehouse.
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After reflecting on some of his ramblings it would not suprise me
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Now, now. There is such a thing as summer holidays and some are even ones where you don't take a laptop.
The various debating points have been interesting and show as much that 'nothing is straightforward' when it comes to money and the law. We all really knew that insurance is riddled with small print, but one expects the umbrella orgs like AiTO to be on your side.
Now, if only I had £5 for every time someone claimed the £5...
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Free wine Snowheads?
When: Wednesday 12th October 2011 from 6 – 8.30 PM
Where: The Science Museum, Exhibition Road, London, SW7 2DD
FREE ENTRY AND GLASS OF WINE ON ARRIVAL with great prizes to be won throughout the evening - there is a downside...
For your opportunity to meet with over 70 specialist Tour Operators and National Tourist Offices for one-to-one advice and ideas on a huge range of holiday options worldwide, come along to the AITO Travel Expo 2011...nah you're alright thanks
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noskitrip, Wine on arrival, drink and run?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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noskitrip, Is the fact that you have to be a nuclear physicist to understand the T&C's of the policies the reason why it is being held at the science museum
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| leedsunited wrote: |
| noskitrip, Is the fact that you have to be a nuclear physicist to understand the T&C's of the policies the reason why it is being held at the science museum |
I did wonder if to wander along and discuss the finer points of insurance with AITO. Or maybe point the TOs to this forum for some learnings on how AITO chooses not to regulate their own published membership standards.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Dear all
Just away on holiday - unlike the trolls who seem unable to take a break from their nastiness and wilful misinterpretation, and in the meantime continue to demonstrate their inability to contribute anything of use. They really need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror - I had to handle a disappointed child who lost her holiday through no fault of her own, what is their motivation in attempting to make any contribution??
Does anyone know what AiTO are promising to the school in terms of repayment? Having withdrawn their guarantee the logical inference is that they guaranteed something before. I don't think the insurers are anywhere near out of the woods either - if you have third parties relying on your insurance you have to do some due diligence on the insured, I'm sure the FSA and ABI are more than aware. There are an awful lot of insurance policies on which third parties rely.
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You know it makes sense.
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Um, what?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Anybody got any news? Where did the summer go. Insurance Companies wriggled out of things further? Anyone got any money back from anywhere? Is Skiing Europe a non-going concern or just resting pending criminal investigations and possible civil actions? I miss the friendly banter on this thread
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowjoe, they have been around for sometime.
I am cynical about their motivation as it is the Tour operators themselves not the end users exchanging information. They all knew what Reynard was up to, they've known him for years in some cases as former partners. To me it smacks of a "let's do a damage limitation" exercise. Words not actions - they should have squealed on him years ago, as the whole school travel industry knew what he was up to. They seem to be covering their own backs while at the same time trying to promote themselves as the reliable source of reference for teachers and LEAs.
Thanks for the update on CR though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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STF Not new by a long way and not created as either a 'marketing umbrella' nor as offering financial security to the customer. Most of these guys compete mercilessly against each other! But there are several specific issues that face their industry which they are more effective at dealing with if they use a 'united voice'.
As far as sales tactics go they'll fight each other (especially the big 3, or 2 in ski) to the death to win business. I am sure they'd have loved to have squealed on CR if they could have been sure it couldn't potentially lead to a libel case. Innocent until proven guilty etc etc.... But they will certainly not mourn his demise!
The 'vetting' of STF is a lot more concerned with upholding safety standards/good operational practice than ensuring financial viability as the assumption is that the law/PTR's/bonding requirements cover that angle - which can just open the whole debate here again!!! Past experience shows in fact that despite the systems ever increasing flaws as it fails to keep pace with the changing world it broadly has worked for honest but poor/inept/unlucky traders and falls down when crooks break the law. As in most areas of life really.
It would be advised if booking a school trip to use a member for quality/safety assurances but should the unexpected happen financially they won't have any legal obligation to help. They may help from a moral standpoint however.
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Have any parents actually seen any money returned from this fiasco or is it resigned to the "learn & move on" file
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Anyone know any new information? I have a small claims case being heard on thursday......
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Is anyone able to verify this...
Amer Sports (UK) Limited have presented a bankruptcy petition against Mr Reynard which is due to be heard at the Exeter County Court on 7 December 2011.
Southernhay Gardens
Exeter Devon
England
EX1 1UH
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My case was heard last thursday (I won  ) in Exeter CC. and I was informed a bankruptcy hearing was occurring at the beginning of December. In a conversation with the police before my hearing, they also informed me a Bankruptcy hearing was coming in December. The same Judge is hearing all cases relating to this fiasco and is aware of all the issues surrounding it. So my hearing was very quick... The impression was that he is a regular visitor at the moment.
I believe the fraud investigation is still ongoing. Anyone have more info on this?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| obrown81 wrote: |
| My case was heard last thursday (I won ) |
Congrats, but presumably that's an empty victory? And did you get to see the man himself?
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Potentially an empty victory... He did not turn up... though he did call me before (and I spoke to him after...) he still maintains the money is on the way!!! 
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FAQ
