Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
The number of times you say, or at least think, "holy $h1t".
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
kevindonkleywood, Yes BASI do suggest a certain number of "weeks" experience - 16. But it's just a guide and can vary a lot depending on the individual.
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
kevindonkleywood, surely it would be HOPS? Although, even that wouldn't give an accurate indication of skill level (the crux of the experience argument).
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
maybe this helps but the average ski boot is designed to flex correctly 30,000 times before the plastic degrades/fatigues.
|
|
|
|
|
|
long lunches
big nights out
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I've skied every year for the past 31 years and still have plenty to learn
|
|
|
|
|
|
Last season was only my second season skiing and it dawned on me that the rate at which you improve is directly proportionate to your ability to suppress your survival instinct (i.e. overcome fear). When I stopped being a jessie is when I started skiing better. And the better I skied, the less afraid I was.
Now that experience should count for something.
I still suck, though
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
It’s not how many times you have gone skiing some people learn much quicker than others
The best guide is to use a 1-10 chart like the one on http://www.insideoutskiing.com/
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
kevindonkleywood, i think weeks on snow is only loosely relevant up till around 10 weeks after that doesnt matter much at all, quality not quantity as well as how quick a learner you are... i have seen experienced skiers with loads of weeks who are very very average and some with a few but got instruction, did a bit of practice and are very good. Lots of people just hit a level they are happy with their skiing nothing wrong with that...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Glen Charman, our set of levels now goes to 13, used to be 11 ala spinal tap but needed a few more
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Sorryskimottaret, I stand corrected must do home work first
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
skimottaret,I don't count 13
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I always recall my dad saying "Is that 20 years experience, or one year's experience, 20 times?"
Obviously you start on a steep learning curve, and a 1 weeker won't have experienced as many varieties of condition or slopes as say a 3 weeker, but like the others and OP, I seriously doubt there is a linear relationship between WIR or even HOPS throughout the skiing lifecycle.
The variables - age at time of skiing ( ie a 5 year old probably learns faster than 50 yr old) gaps between skiing (3 weeks in one season is likely to improve things more than spread out over 6 years) desire, fitness, ratio of bar time : piste time, quality of instruction, patience of family, and no doubt a myriad others all have to be factored in.
So how do we compare 'experience?' Simple - we don't. We just listen to and agree with all the pre-ski banter, then find out the real situation when on the slopes. I reckon you can tell pretty much everything you need to know about the relative performance capability of a companion within a few minutes, whether you are on a blue red or black. The way the hold themselves, their awareness of the conditions and those around them, the respect for the mountains, the preparation, the consistency of the turns, plenty of clues. Hell we all do it, even if we don't know / admit it.
So when for example Rob@rar says "I'm not really very good". How best to decipher that? You go onto the slopes and... Yeah. Right. Like Chemmy's not "very good" because she's a few 10th of a second behind the best in the world...
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
We measure ourselves against where we want to be. That does in part that depends on experience, I suppose, in that ignorance is bliss. Hence the person who says they can "get down anything" on their third holiday (because they're now nearly as good as their mates) compared with someone who has spent years on focussed learning but is well aware of how much better they could be - and many others are.
"Experience" (measured in quantitative terms) is - after the first week or so - almost entirely irrelevant, I'd say. Even in the first week or so it's no kind of measure, really. I've known people more competent and confident after 2 days than others are after 2 weeks.
Descriptions are far more useful, such as "I can go cautiously down a bumpy black run and generally get to the bottom with damaging myself or anybody else, staying pretty well in control, but am quite likely to fall at least once, and can't get up any kind of decent rhythm or speed".
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Time spent spraying on the Internet should certainly count
I'm pretty dam experienced on that basis
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Quote: |
"I'm not really very good"
|
That's what people who are very good said two years ago, now everyone thinks it's the cool thing to say.
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Quote: |
Time spent spraying on the Internet should certainly count
|
If only.....
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Progress:
Do you look at a piste map and try to find the blue runs, as you don't want to try reds?
Do you look at a piste map and try to find the blacks to prove how good you are?
Do you look at a piste map and work out how to get round the resort without actually caring about the colour grading, as you know you can ski it?
Do you look at a piste map and work you how to get to the trees and off piste stuff
Do you look at a piste map and work out how to get as high as possible to leave the resort boundary and still get back to the lowest lift
Do you still look at a piste map?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Time on snow, weeks on snow or years on snow does not count for anything when Pam said that she has known people who are as confident after 2 days to some peoples 2 weeks, she is very right.
Time does not count in relation to experience.What you learn in that time and how you use it does count. for instance season workers who ski for two full season (40 weeks) but don’t take lessons they will probably be able to ski most things but their technique would be quite poor, but someone who takes lessons for half the time (20 weeks) would most of the time be able to ski the same terrain but would more often than not have much better technique.
So being an instructor if I was to watch both skiers down a run and then have to asses which skier has the most experience I would choose the one with better technique. So remember experience comes with the ability to learn and put it into practise, not just time taken doing it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Glen Charman wrote: |
It’s not how many times you have gone skiing some people learn much quicker than others
The best guide is to use a 1-10 chart like the one on http://www.insideoutskiing.com/ |
that is just about the only chart of that type I have seen where I think I fit solidly in one level (7). I usually find that I can do most, but not all of the things at level x, while being able to do some of x+1.
Whether other people I ski with think I am a 7, I don't know, but peolpe who are much better skiers than I am still seem happy to ski with me, so I can't be too overconfident.
In "experience" terms, I can still count the total number of days skiing in the mountains in my life - 57 (in 9 trips).
But I am sure there are people who have skied less than me who are better skiers, and probably some people who have skied more but aren't as good. Experience is important, but not all-important.
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
What counts as experience?
Experiece!
If one only did blue, that's blue experience. If one does black, that's black experience. If one goes off-piste, that's off-piste experience... etc
Weeks or hours on slope has nothing to do with true "experience".
A better description of time on slope? Time-on-slope!
|
|
|
|
|
|
alex_heney, tah we put a lot of thought into our Levels chart.... most of the others all seem to lump people into a broad intermediate category with the odd bit sounding right at lower or higher "levels" i am thinking of taking off number of weeks from our chart but it is useful in some ways to gauge how keen a skier is. when people book onto our Alpine courses we ask how many weeks total and how many last season.. but more importantly we ask what type of skiing they most enjoy and how they approach the skiing they do. this is much more telling than experience when harmonising groups without having previously seen a skier in action..
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
I think a lot depends on who you ski with. I think I’m a pretty average skier but nobody in the group is better than me, so I don’t get pushed on. In Solden late session I had a morning skiing one to one with skimottaret, and it was great he push me on and I felt I improved more in one morning than in the late three years.
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Hi skimottaret,
I would have to agree with you, when you say you are thinking of taking out no. of weeeks skied. all the other questions are far more important. as i'm sure you know there are the eternal level 2/3 skied for many many years (weeks) but just are unable to progress further because of a number of different blockages. These people a lot of the time are some of the keenest skiers as they are so determined. but unfortunately having skied so much and being keen will not give you the correct info for you to be able to assess their level
|
|
|
|
|
|
Glen Charman,
Quote: |
I think a lot depends on who you ski with
|
pam w,
Quote: |
because they're now nearly as good as their mates
|
Interesting points about the company you keep whilst 'developing' your skiing and like you both point out the 'experience' of skiing with someone good is so much more valuble for developing your skiing than skiing with others at or below your level.
I think that beginning to teach probably also tells you a lot about your own skiing more possibly than just 'slope time'
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Quote: |
Got us thinking what counts as a valid experience 'yardstick
|
Take it to the next level...amount of knee operations and still sliding!
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Good decisions come from experience.
Experience comes from Bad decisions.
So... No. of Bad Decisions? NOBDs
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Experience = realising how bad you are relative to people who really are good.
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
fatbob wrote: |
Experience = realising how bad you are relative to people who really are good. |
+1
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
fatbob, rob@rar, ho hum, that definition sees me getting worse and worse the more experienced I get. Demoralising, but probably true.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hurtle wrote: |
... that definition sees me getting worse and worse the more experienced I get. |
Me too. I used to think I was a good skier, but the better I got the more I realised I wasn't that good after all. All things are relative of course, it's just that in recent years I've been lucky enough to ski with some outstanding skiers and I understand how big the gulf is between what they do and what I can do on skis. Doesn't stop me having fun, of course, nor striving to get better...
|
|
|
|
|
|
rob@rar wrote: |
fatbob wrote: |
Experience = realising how bad you are relative to people who really are good. |
+1 |
+2
Last edited by After all it is free on Sun 22-08-10 23:32; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
rob@rar,
Quote: |
I used to think I was a good skier
|
At least I've never fallen into that trap!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Experienced is when you have watched world class athletes do things that are seemingly impossible and you are completely humbled by the realisation of how utterly average you are and how unremarkable you ever will be...
|
|
|
|
|
|