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UK expats applying for EU citizenship

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@davidof,

Thankyou....

@DJL,

You will find im nearer the correct side of what i said

In anycaae right now All EU Passports are equal so why would you want two?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
stanton wrote:
If you take up Dutch Citizenshp you have to give up your previous nationality unless it against the law like in some Islamic Countrys


Which Islamic countries are you referring to and why are you referring to them? I don't see what your point is as regards these countries requiring people to retain their initial citizenship when acquiring a new one.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
skidipity wrote:
stanton wrote:
If you take up Dutch Citizenshp you have to give up your previous nationality unless it against the law like in some Islamic Countrys


Which Islamic countries are you referring to and why are you referring to them? I don't see what your point is as regards these countries requiring people to retain their initial citizenship when acquiring a new one.


It is not Stanton, it is the Dutch government. Several Islamic countries such as Morocco don't allow you to give up your nationality, so the Dutch govt have made an exception.
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@davidof, ahhhhh, now I understand! Thanks for the explanation.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
brexittoexbritAT wrote:

skidipity - Appreciate the blog might be tl;dr for some - but just to inform you:

1) Austria does not permit double - bar exceptional circumstances (as clarified in the blog posts). I would agree that a blog does not act as a substitute to seeking advice from a lawyer (fortunately work assists with this in my case).
2) I also state that changing citizenship might not be the solution for all.


Welcome to snowHeads brexittoexbritAT and appreciate your comment to inform me. I must have missed those points on the blog page that was linked. Your other blog posts may well contain all the warnings that are required. However, there are people out there who selectively read information. I have far too much experience in telling people they may do ABC only to have them tell me I'm wrong and that actually they can do XYZ because they read it on the internet.

Just one warning - have you checked that Austrian law allows you to give people advice? I have no idea about Austria but I think that in some jurisdictions (I think the US is still one example), only qualified attorneys are permitted to provide immigration/nationality advice.
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For god's sake, it is only a blog about someone's own experience of the process! When i wanted to register my car in france i read a couple of blog posts as well as the official sites which made the process clearer for the layman. Had the blogs been a bit inaccurate i hardly would have used that as a defence if i got a fine for registering my car incorrectly. If someone cannot write a blog for fear of it being construed as legal advice for which they are not qualified then that is a real shame. In fact, why don't we all stop giving advice on snowheads about the various questions we are not qualified to advise on?!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@julietp, Top.post
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@julietp, unfortunately a blog post may be construed as legal advice. Simply labelling something as a blog is no defence to this. Hence my warning to check on this particularly as I have the impression that the blog writer is part of an organisation which advises on how to navigate Austrian bureaucracy.

julietp wrote:


In fact, why don't we all stop giving advice on snowheads about the various questions we are not qualified to advise on?!


You are of course entitled to your opinion. You may be entitled also to charmingly state it - or not in this instance. Equally, I feel entitled to gloat internally about my qualifications and, of more importance, the expertise and experience I have gained working for over 15 years in teams that are ranked in the top 5 for my particular area in the UK's leading legal directories.

Do remind me @julietp, how is it I'm unqualified to advise?
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I wasn't talking about you specifically, just that the nature of the forum is that people ask advice about various things. Can non ski instructors not give advice on technique? People who have suffered an injury not talk about the healing process if they are not a qualified doctor? I am saying have a bit of perspective, it is a blog post and this is a forum. I like hearing about people's experiences and it would be a shame if people stopped sharing them for fear of legal comeback, not to mention pompous comments. I don't know what you are or arent qualified to advise on this is a ski forum not a tender process
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@julietp, having re-read your comment it still sounds as if you are specifically replying to me given I was the one who raised the potential issue that the blog could be construed as legal advice in some jurisdictions. My "pompous comments" aside, I really don't follow your reasoning that I shouldn't say such things.
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Come on skidipity - juliet wasn't saying you were unqualified to advise the guy.

@davidof, we have set ourselves some time at the end of the month to get all our paperwork sent off so will know more after that, but thanks for the heads-up about potential hold ups for applications from the Savoie - I imagine there'll be many a Brit applying at the moment too, so just adding to the huge immigrant population of Grenoble. I suppose we aren't in any hurry as I don't think we'll got booted out, nor choose to leave, post-Brexit given we have lived here for 8 years as tax residents and run a French business. We were told there were two different types of language test you could do, one of which lasts forever and the other of which runs out after 2 years so I think we're ok on that front but it's only 100 euros or something so if we have to do another one then it's not the end of the world. I did an online practice citizenship test and found that pretty easy - there was a footballer and a singer I hadn't heard of but I knew pretty much everything else without doing any reading up at all, which was a surprise... but will try not to be lulled into a false sense of security on that front.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
davidof wrote:
Which European countries allow dual citizenship?

In general terms those permitting dual nationality are :
Belgium
Bulgaria
Croatia
Republic of Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany ( but only with other EU countries )
Greece
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
Latvia
Luxembourg
Malta
Portugal
Romania
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland

so the vast majority of EU countries


The UK does. Still in the EU last time I checked .
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Hand Wringer wrote:
Come on skidipity - juliet wasn't saying you were unqualified to advise the guy.

@davidof, we have set ourselves some time at the end of the month to get all our paperwork sent off


When you say "sent off" have you seen the ADDCAES yet?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
achilles wrote:
davidof wrote:
Which European countries allow dual citizenship?

In general terms those permitting dual nationality are :
Belgium
Bulgaria
Croatia
Republic of Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany ( but only with other EU countries )
Greece
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
Latvia
Luxembourg
Malta
Portugal
Romania
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland

so the vast majority of EU countries


The UK does. Still in the EU last time I checked .


no idea why it's not on the list, that's Google for you
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Do you still have British second class passports?

Know nothing about Austrian rules - but daughter has one EU passport (DK) and one Asian passport with different names.
I could get German passport if I wanted - historical reasons - but no reason to do so.

This is a complicated matter and as others said you need to do you research for your specific situation.

Good is also to be married to a EU-citizen that gives you great freedom for work and stay in other EU-countries.

Sorry to see my passport strength is only third - must be because we are only few citizens. Laughing (so may be I should go for the German anyway ??) Shocked
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@davidof, no and the entire task of organising our naturalisation process got put on my husband's to do list rather than mine (I am dealing with the entire process from start to finish of a property sale and purchase instead so am not being lazy!) and I just get told what to do and where to sign on a need to know basis, so have forwarded him your post with a note suggesting he calls them Monday unless this is something on his list already that he hadn't mentioned to me. Presumably you are saying this is stage 1 in the process, once you've got your language certificate and translated marriage/birth certificates?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I got married in that way - just sign here - had no clue what was written - had I only known................... Madeye-Smiley (many years ago).
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
How does 'not permitted to give up citizenship' work? I mean if UK told me that i would just say bye then.
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Hand Wringer wrote:
@davidof, no and the entire task of organising our naturalisation process got put on my husband's to do list rather than mine (I am dealing with the entire process from start to finish of a property sale and purchase instead so am not being lazy!) and I just get told what to do and where to sign on a need to know basis, so have forwarded him your post with a note suggesting he calls them Monday unless this is something on his list already that he hadn't mentioned to me. Presumably you are saying this is stage 1 in the process, once you've got your language certificate and translated marriage/birth certificates?


As you say, your husband may have it all in hand. I'm not in the Savoie but have several friends going through the process at the moment in the Isere and as the Savoie depends on the same prefecture for naturalizations I imagine the same rules apply. In the Isere you have to go through a similar organization to the ADDCAES, you can't deal with the prefecture directly (it says the same on the Savoie prefecture website). In the Isere it takes over a year to get an appointment just to start the process and it then takes time to get an appointment with the prefecture. So you see the 2 year validity on the French test is quite short.

As I say, the Savoie may be different and much easier, I don't know, I don't want to worry you but time may be pressing.

I'd be interested in how things work out.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
In Argentina the high court found that denouncing your citizenship is unconstitutional - (for those born there) - so once a Argentinian always an Argentinian.
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Found my answer you still have first and second class nationality:

https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/british-overseas-territories-citizen

Shocked
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@davidof, sorry, I missed your response on this.

Hugely helpful, thank you. It has set our expectations back in term of timeline (will call tomorrow and will keep this thread updated for interest about the timeline). Again, we have a lot of stuff to deal with right now, from all aspects of life, so French citizenship is not the top priority, but equally we're neither of us slackers, so happy to update about how long this process takes for motivated people.

Again,thank you davidof, and we massively appreciate any insight you can offer (and would never even think to try to hold you legally responsible!!!)
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Hand Wringer wrote:


Again,thank you davidof, and we massively appreciate any insight you can offer (and would never even think to try to hold you legally responsible!!!)


It will be interesting to hear your experiences, please keep us updated with anything you feel able to make public. It appears very variable in terms of timing.
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Made the call and we will get an email about an appointment in Chambery, which could take up to a year, at which point we submit the dossier, and then the second appointment in Grenoble should be 8-9 months later. We had thought it would take 18 months (we'd read that in the newspaper) in total but looks like it could take a lot longer as I'm not sure how long things take after the second appointment. Thank you again davidof - looked through all the info we had together and this initial stage was not mentioned anywhere and must be out of date. It's actually taken a bit of the pressure off as I may still try and work out a way to get hold of my dad's birth certificate somehow (the Embassy in Burma suggested the British Library), plus I'd forgotten to get his death certificate sent over and was panicking a bit about getting that sent here and translated in time.

Not too bothered about sitting another language test nearer to the appointment in Chambery if needs be - I just did B1 as did not want to have any stress whatsoever and just wanted to get the pass (have already been certified B2 a couple of years ago) but have been thinking of doing a Master for ages given how affordable higher education is in France, so might do a test again at C1 if I ever do all that grammar study I keep promising myself I will do but never get round to...
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Hand Wringer wrote:
Made the call and we will get an email about an appointment in Chambery, which could take up to a year, at which point we submit the dossier, and then the second appointment in Grenoble should be 8-9 months later. We had thought it would take 18 months (we'd read that in the newspaper) in total but looks like it could take a lot longer as I'm not sure how long things take after the second appointment. Thank you again davidof - looked through all the info we had together and this initial stage was not mentioned anywhere and must be out of date. It's actually taken a bit of the pressure off as I may still try and work out a way to get hold of my dad's birth certificate somehow (the Embassy in Burma suggested the British Library), plus I'd forgotten to get his death certificate sent over and was panicking a bit about getting that sent here and translated in time.

Not too bothered about sitting another language test nearer to the appointment in Chambery if needs be - I just did B1 as did not want to have any stress whatsoever and just wanted to get the pass (have already been certified B2 a couple of years ago) but have been thinking of doing a Master for ages given how affordable higher education is in France, so might do a test again at C1 if I ever do all that grammar study I keep promising myself I will do but never get round to...


Sounds good. Did your dad never have a UK birth cert? Or is he native Burmese. I thought with British nationals born overseas they got issued a UK certificate too?
It would be really worth finding out what you can do if you cannot get a certificate before you go to the Chambery appointment.

Your language test should be ok once you are in the system at Chambery, but you see the timing is quite close.

After the prefecture there is up to a year delay to get your ID card / passport. All the information is sent to a center where further checks are made (supposedly). So about 2 to 2.5 years in total. I think it is designed to put people off but sounds much longer than I've heard for Germany say.
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My grandparents were Anglo Burmese and Anglo Indian (i.e. mixed race) so they got given certificates of naturalisation when they came over to the UK - my uncle has his so I know my dad got one too, but Mum is absolutely rubbish with paperwork and couldn't find her birth certificate, my dad's birth certificate, or their wedding certificate, so I had to order new copies of all of them but the UK records office had nothing for my dad. She has every gymnastics, ballet, swimming certificate etc. from when we were toddlers but none of the important stuff! There must be a dusty box somewhere with them all in but no idea if they were left with a solicitor as I've been through everything in her house I think. Ok, now I have a year I will try again - my friend's family company are those heir hunter people so might see if I can pull a favour with them.

Presumably we'll need to get our police check certificates from France and the UK updated nearer the time too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
stanton up to you, of course, but perhaps you could edit the title to "UK expats applying for EU citizenship" or something - strikes me there's useful information for lots of people in this thread, not just expats in Austria.

Oh, and if anyone reading this has any insight into how I could get a hold of any form of documentation for my dad based on the above info, it would be very, very gratefully received!
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@Hand Wringer,

OK I have done that.

Apparently a poster below said it was drivel &

Thesixquidman wrote:
It's from you. Nobody's interested.
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You know it makes sense.
Thank you
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I'm currently in the process of acquiring my (dual) Maltese citizenship via my mothers birthline. So far it seems relatively painless although I'm prepared for this to change!
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Do you need to be able to speak Maltese? I guess not if it's through your mother's birthline. Ironically the friend I referred to earlier whose family has the "heir hunting" business has had a French passport from birth due to his mother being French and votes in all the elections, even though he has never lived in France! He is virtually mother-tongue level in French though, so not quite as annoying as it could be for me if he couldn't even order a coffee in the language!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hand Wringer wrote:
Do you need to be able to speak Maltese? I guess not if it's through your mother's birthline. Ironically the friend I referred to earlier whose family has the "heir hunting" business has had a French passport from birth due to his mother being French and votes in all the elections, even though he has never lived in France! He is virtually mother-tongue level in French though, so not quite as annoying as it could be for me if he couldn't even order a coffee in the language!


I worked with a young women who was French via her dad who ran an antique shop in Winchester. She grew up with her English mum and didn't speak a word of French. She was stopped at Roissy by the police for a passport control and they were very cross when this young French lady addressed them in a haughty English accent.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@davidof, yes it's funny - my Anglo Burmese/Indian family did everything they could to be "more British than the British" when they they arrived in the UK in 1947, but I imagine there are many Brits in your former colleague's position who've got the passports but never bothered to learn the language or absorb the culture!
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@brexittoexbritAT, also wanted to say to you that I scanned through your blog and found an interesting link to an article about a virtually native Swiss woman (born in Switzerland to Turkish parents) who scored 100% in the language test but was rejected for citizenship as she got some culture questions wrong and her religion/heritage ( even though she'd never been to a Mosque and identified completely as secular Swiss) was a problem. I have a Saudi friend going for Swiss citizenship and it was very useful to be able to send that to her as a heads-up.

Another complaint centred around her unfamiliarity with “typical Swiss sports”, such as Hornussen, an indigenous cross between baseball and golf, or Schwingen, a style of folk wrestling. Yilmaz had named skiing as a typical Swiss sport. “One could have a very long debate about what is typical and traditional,” she wrote in a letter complaining about her rejection.

I was asked whether my parents found it difficult to accept my partner, who is not Turkish. My family is open and moreover I am not a practising Muslim. I have never visited in a mosque in my life, but have several times been to a church.
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Am intrigued by the sport that is cross between baseball and golf in Switzerland...(the folk style of wrestling, less so).
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Finally (sorry, realise I'm dominating the thread now) - davidof, are you a French citizen now (I think your wife is French and your super-cute son is vey French despite his mixed parentage... I mean mixed parentage in terms of nationality, not to suggest none of his super-cute genes came from you Happy)?
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Hand Wringer wrote:
Finally (sorry, realise I'm dominating the thread now) - davidof, are you a French citizen now


Hi, yes I did it before Brexit for work reasons as I work a lot on govt. projects and some are restricted. 5 years ago you could apply via the local town hall.

As I'm married to a French national it was relatively more straightforward. Son is French but post Brexit I got a UK passport for him, just in case, it was complicated and some people with similar circumstances to my son have been refused so the Home Office doesn't interpret its own rules uniformly.
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@Hand Wringer, Maltese isn't necessary... fortunately. Whilst I could understand it pretty well as a child, I could never speak a word of it.

It appears that since 2000 Malta makes it pretty easy to achieve dual citizenship, and once I have mine, it also seems relatively straight forward in securing my wife's and kid's. Prior to 2000, if I had wanted Maltese citizenship, then I wouldn't have needed to rescind British citizenship. Oddly enough, had my parents nationalities been reversed I could have had dual citizenship from birth. It was only 2000 and on that they would accept dual citizenship via my mothers bloodline.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Tue 10-10-17 11:15; edited 1 time in total
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davidof wrote:
I thought with British nationals born overseas they got issued a UK certificate too?


I was actually born in the UAE whilst my British Father and Maltese mother were working there in the 70's. My birth certificate was initially issued by the UAE Ministry of Health (the registrar for births in the UAE) but also have a british birth certificate, as my birth was also registered at the British Embassy. I don't believe that these are issued by default for an overseas birth, but need separate registration with the local Embassy.
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Wow - really interesting stuff.
We have been meaning to put the wheels in motion for a couple of years now, but have succumbed to the lure of procrastination.
Just interested to know how it works as a family regarding the French tests. Our children are all bilingual, and I am reasonably fluent, but my wife is not B2 ( one of the reasons we have been holding out). Also does the mairie carry and influence, or is it just the prefect?
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