 Poster: A snowHead
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...and other such obsessive things...
A few years' ago I remember being stopped by a guy pushing his bike up a steep hill on the South Downs, since he wanted to show us his latest Specialised with disc brakes. The point of this is that we were RIDING up, on our old but nicely spec'd hardtails. He was 'all the gear and no idea', and pushing. We sighed, indulged him, then rolled our eyes as we jumped on and rode off.
We were aware we were being a bit smug.
I occasionally wonder about whether you need to go through all the gear obsessing just in order to know what's what - both in climbing, skiing and mountain-biking - so that you can reach a point of no longer worrying about the things which don't really matter and focussing on the things which really do. In skiing I find it a wee bit frustrating when people are going on and on about gear when they should simply be working on technique - that way lies greater gains. I DO know that tiny aspects of gear can make a great deal of difference on occasion (in climbing, the details can be the difference between safe and definitely dangerous) but mostly it's skill and experience which really counts....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@valais2, I'm still at the stage of wondering whether I need my gloves to be on a length of elastic.  (I've never yet lost a pair, but can't help feeling that it's just a matter of time. My current gloves are of a particularly pleasing toastiness, so I'd be sad to lose them.)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I recently change to a new buff. I am sure it improved my skiing by around 5%.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I agree, mostly. My son can clip on any old pair of skis and a borrowed pair of boots and ski most people off the morning. At Easter, as his brother was borrowing the ski boots he swept with huge aplomb around on a snowboard he bought ex hire in Brighton for £50 16 years ago. Don't think its ever been properly serviced. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In club "round the cans" yacht racing the winning skippers are often those who know every twitch and eddy of the tide, and who don't make mistakes. At the top levels when everyone is brilliant the tech might be more important, but I've never moved in those circles.
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Been living full time in the Alps for nearly 10 years now, snowboarding in winter, mountain-bike guide in summer.
For both sports, I used to be a total gear-head back when I had an office job. These days I just want kit that works and doesn't break. That usually means avoiding the latest-and-greatest until it settles in after a year or two. It's fun watching the gimmicks come and go...
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I long ago came to the conclusion that ski-wise, when I get to the point at which the only thing limiting my ability is my skis, I will be very happy with my skiing ability.
That said, it doesn't mean I can't tell the difference between skis I like and skis I don't! But yes - I bought a pair of skis I liked, a pair of boots I liked, and now I am content.
I think some people think it's bad to have top of the line gear when your ability hasn't caught up yet. I disagree with that, on the most part. Any fool can be uncomfortable, so if you can afford a £500 Spyder jacket, then go for it... there's no point in buying a cheap one just out of the principle that you're a novice skier, then spending the week playing ping pong between sweating and freezing. Likewise, I've always bought expensive goggles. I just don't like the idea of zipping down the snow at Mach 3 with anything less than perfect vision of what's coming up. Reading the snow properly could be the difference between a nice day out of good controlled skiing, and losing an edge then waking up in a helicopter. (Of course - you can lose an edge and wake up in a helicopter with good goggles. But anything you can do to limit the chances of it happening, is a good investment all-round).
But yeah, those who ditch the 2015 model of their ski to buy the 2016 in the belief that the amount of research the manufacturer has achieved in 12 months is going to give them the edge they need... is either a top of their game professional, or thoroughly misguided.
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| Quote: |
| I think some people think it's bad to have top of the line gear when your ability hasn't caught up yet. I disagree with that, on the most part. Any fool can be uncomfortable, so if you can afford a £500 Spyder jacket, then go for it... there's no point in buying a cheap one just out of the principle that you're a novice skier, then spending the week playing ping pong between sweating and freezing. |
Know where you are coming from but I think you can learn a lot from starting with any old gear. I wouldn't want to go back to them but having skied all sorts of off piste crud and boilerplate in skinny, flappy skis I reckon I had to work harder on my technique and can really take advantage with better equipment, whereas if you have the best stuff to start with you a) *need* it and b) have nowhere to go.
It's a bit like skiing in poor weather and visibility....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I was talking more about personal kit, like jackets and gloves and goggles. I see all of that is basically being PPE, and will always buy the best I can afford.
Ski wise, it will always be hard to really judge unless you ski the same slope every day for a week and change skis at the hire shop every day. I get your theory and mostly agree with you. The trouble is that I think with modern skis, there's really not much of a case for 'better' or 'worse'. There's 'right for you' and 'wrong for you'. When I came to choosing what to buy, I tried out all the things which were winning awards in the magazines and web reviews etc etc. And tried out a pair of old skis that the guy gave me as a sort of wild card. He was like "Try these - we've been trying to sell them for 3 years and had no interest at all"... I ended up buying them, had an absolute blast which none of the award winning, test-proven skis had got close to...
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I mostly learned my stuff out in Taos NM which was a very gear centric environment. The school philosophy there used to be that teaching/learning is hard enough but you can take the poor gear out of the equation by buying or renting good stuff up front.
Not good to have folks learning on outdated or just very low end poor quality boots and skis.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The one thing good gear avoids is faff. Stuff like having the loops and clip included with my Hestra gloves means I never stop to take gloves off or on, fiddling about with pockets or bags, just unclip and put them on, take them off and clip on. Cheap gear doesn't have the loops you need to do the same, now wouldn't use gloves without them - also saves on faff when I slip my gloves off to help someone with something, slip them back on as we start skiing off.
Other stuff clearly is just gear for the sake of it. But so frequently what I find is that skiing in nice stuff makes a bit of difference in the details like above - having pockets in the right place on a jacket so you can get into them when you've got a bag on etc.
We have the same analogy with divers sometimes. People who turn up with bronze or brass clips with crappy mild steel springs in them, they do the job perfectly well right up to the point when they don't. They jam up more, they are harder to use especially when wearing thick gloves - somebody that can't be bothered to spend £20 more on a few clips to make their life easier underwater is usually someone who doesn't spend £100 on getting a decent instructor vs the cheapest they can find, always the same things and symptom 1 is usually the bronze/brass clips...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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One can't beat a good bit of faff on the mountain, clipping this, buckling that, tightening this, adjusting that....anything that takes your mind off hurtling down a freshly groomed green run barely on the edge of control and dignity...
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The problem is, what's "right" or "wrong" for you takes experience to figure out. For peeps who don't go out for more than a couple weeks a year (be it skiing or mtn biking), there's a much smaller chance to find the right gear.
That said, there're people whom I stayed far away from, like the bloke with the latest Specialized mtn bike. (I've had the embarrassment once when a woman I bought to a group ride on a moderately difficult mtn bike trail kept falling off her ultra-expensive, latest greatest bike! My mates never let me forget about it  )
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You know it makes sense.
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I was given some good advice about being aware that if you're skiing with beginners, they most likely don't have such good clothing as you do. So if you're cold, they're colder. There are so many ways to be put off skiing in the early days!
I've learned 'buy cheap, buy twice' the hard way. So now I try to stick to the philosophy of 'buy once, buy right, buy in the sales'
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As a teenager, I spent too many hours on camping trips in torrential rain, soaked from inside and out because of cheap "waterproofs" to skimp on decent gear. I wouldn't touch a cheap tent either. I agree about learning from experience too - I now know that soft shell trousers are a bad idea, although I love my jacket.
Even at a couple of weeks a year, I know I will use my ski gear and it will last many years. I rarely get out on my bike though, so spend practically nothing on stuff for that and usually make do. That would change if I was riding every weekend.
As I am not made of money, my response to this is to source the best stuff I can feasibly afford at the absolute cheapest price, except for things like ski boots and helmets where fit is more important than cost. Pretty much everything else is bought in the end of season sales or on clearance sites or ebay, though I rarely buy second hand.
Bad gear that doesn't fit well could ruin your day, especially in poor weather. In decent gear, you can just carry on and not even think about it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Cheap gear doesn't have the loops you need to do the same, now wouldn't use gloves without them
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My gloves are from Aldi and they have loops on, given the cost of 6 inches of elastic and a few stitches it's surprising they don't all have.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think there's two things that drive the "All the gear, no idea thing".
First most people in that camp have significant disposible income to spend on their hobby, certainly compared to the amount of leasure time they have partake in their hobby. If you're limited to just one or two weeks skiing a year that's about 50 weeks not skiing but with access to money and the Internet/ski shops. Buying a new pair of gloves in June, ready for your Jan ski trip (despite getting yourself a new pair for Christmas ready for last Jan's trip) makes the wait seem less somehow shorted. And of course your new gloves don't match your jacket and because you've not had a ski holiday recently to empty your bank account you can afford that expensive one...
Second buying a new pair of goggles may do nothing for your skiing but they are new and shiny and you get the instant gratification of owning them and feeling like a real skier. A private ski lesson may well cost the same and WILL improve your skiing but tends to result in feelings of fear/embarrasment/failure/tiredness/etc, with maybe a little taste of satifaction that you've learnt something at the end. A better use of the money but harder work and doesn't give the same gratification.
Personally I'll stick with gear I like (I expect to be buried in the same Buffalo jacket I've had for the last 15 years). If nothing else my crap gear gives me an excuse for my crap skiing 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
If nothing else my crap gear gives me an excuse for my crap skiing
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+1
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
If you're limited to just one or two weeks skiing a year that's about 50 weeks not skiing but with access to money and the Internet/ski shops. Buying a new pair of gloves in June, ready for your Jan ski trip (despite getting yourself a new pair for Christmas ready for last Jan's trip) makes the wait seem less somehow shorted. And of course your new gloves don't match your jacket and because you've not had a ski holiday recently to empty your bank account you can afford that expensive one...
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Scarily accurate for me...
I've only managed a week a year in marginal weeks due to unavoidable work/training commitments for the last couple of years. I've never been more gear obsessed.
Gear obsession for me is inversely proportionate to the amount of time I'm able spend doing the activity. It's just a way of making it feel closer.
Couldn't have cared less about my bike when I was racing it every week.
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| Quote: |
| I've learned 'buy cheap, buy twice' the hard way. |
I agree that can happen but I've found well-made, decent quality, good-performing kit from cheap brands like Karrimor, Gelert and Trespass that confound that rule.
On the other hand, I'm a bit disappointed with a £160+ lightweight Patagonia cagoule that I bought for ski touring and hiking. After being assured that it was a similar material to Goretex, I've found that at times it's akin to a plastic bag. It seems to be a similar breathability to the £15 dayglo biking cagoule that I bought just for my commute to work...
I've also had pretty decent outdoor, camping and biking kit from Aldi. Then there's my Lidl snow chains that have outlasted Halford ones (at over 3x the price) that just fell apart.
Some big brand kit prices from big name shops are just jawdropping (eg Rab, Spyder...) - makes me think they're just having a laugh ....
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Basically go with whatever makes you happy, can afford or care about.
Buying anything because a Pro uses it is pretty pointless, as firstly they are being paid to use it, and secondly, they could probably lay down 90% of the performance using average equipment.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Digger the dinosaur, I agree about faff. I am a faffer and I work hard to minimise it. I wear Tresspass mittens because ... they have removable inners which I have removed and wear fingerless gloves instead of. That means I can easily remove my mittens and then have my fingers free to do faffy things like look at my phone, check the piste map, find my lip salve, do up my flies, etc. - all the things I should have done before I put my gloves on in the first place. It was so successful that I use the same principle at work.
On the the other hand dp, I have an expensive Lime Green Spyder jacket that will probably last me until I die. Although the pockets are exactly where the straps of my pack are - so a bit of unavoidable faffing, sadly.
I think buying cheap or expensive depends on the purpose. In my job I work outside and kneel a lot. There is no point in having really good Gore-Tex trousers to keep me dry because I will wear holes in the knees within months so I buy cheap and often. But good fleeces, a waterproof coat and a peaked cap make the world a much better place.
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@musher,
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I'm definitely a merino convert as well.
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Me too, and although it's expensive, it appears to be completely indestructible. My stuff is all six or seven years old now, I wear it year round (for walking as well as skiing, and sometimes just as a warm/comfortable version of a t-shirt or sweatshirt whenever) it's been through the washing machine countless times and it is all as good as new.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The best performance improver in skiing as any fule kno is yellow pants. You just can't ski poo-poo in yellow pants or you look like a total back bottom.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Isn't this covered by rule 1?
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@Mjit, I think there's kinda a third category too. And that's the category where (this is more for technical equipment), playing around with stuff and building stuff and adding stuff is as much a part of the hobby as actually doing it.
It's probably not as prevalent in skiing where there's less to fiddle with. But for the bike, a few years ago I had a job where I was making a ton of disposable income, and the area I lived in had tons of mountain bike possibilities, and a great shop. So constantly building the bike, dismantling it, changing a part, trying it out, adjusting it, trying it again etc became as much of a hobby for me as riding it. And then, in due course, more of a hobby.
So I have to admit that I was one for turning up at an organised ride with a seriously tricked out bike. And then half way up the first hill be breathing through the wrong orifice, bike rocking violently from side to side as I did some sort of combination of riding and dying to the top, despite my bike weighing about the same as a crisp packet and having a drivetrain worth more than that on some cars.
I ended up taking up radio controlled cars instead, so I could continue to tinker with mechanics but not have to give up my love for beer and TV...
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You know it makes sense.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| @valais2, I'm still at the stage of wondering whether I need my gloves to be on a length of elastic. (I've never yet lost a pair, but can't help feeling that it's just a matter of time. My current gloves are of a particularly pleasing toastiness, so I'd be sad to lose them.) |
I sewed elastic on mine after I managed to drop one off a lift at Flachauwinkl...Mrs Flangesax and Scarpa had to ski down the Stash and rescue it for me
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@holidayloverxx,
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Poster: A snowHead
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@dp, ....grief you lot have released my inner 'tinkering with gear between seasons' demon ... just bought some Lange RX80 SC for small youth, am obsessing about wrongly-purchased X Pro at 26 mondo for me, and...and...and...
...right...think biking, think summer season mountain-biking on the sun-lit downs of Sussex....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@musher,
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One thing I'm itching to try the expensive version of is goggles, though I suspect the way my eyesight is failing that won't make any difference either. I must be spending too much time in the bar with Boris
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Eyesight failing? it must be too much Lemsip.
@dp,
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So constantly building the bike, dismantling it, changing a part, trying it out, adjusting it, trying it again etc became as much of a hobby for me as riding it. And then, in due course, more of a hobby.
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And a very rewarding one, too. I'm feeling particularly smug after yesterday afternoon when my 1982 cro-moly tourer flew past a couple of lycra-logo types on their carbon-fibre speed machines.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| In club "round the cans" yacht racing the winning skippers are often those who know every twitch and eddy of the tide, and who don't make mistakes. At the top levels when everyone is brilliant the tech might be more important, but I've never moved in those circles. |
If you are sailing in big one-design fleets then a boat speed difference that gets you to the first mark a boatlength ahead is going to make a big difference to your result. In a handicap fleet, not so much. Also a good race officer is usually going to take such a fleet out to sea where the tide does not eddy or twitch. Finally if you want to attract good crew, they are unlikely to be impressed with old sails. I don't think any of this translates to recreational skiing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
I don't think any of this translates to recreational skiing.
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Exactly my point. I don't think many snowheads are skiing the equivalent of a big one-design fleet race, or have the technique to get the best out of whatever equipment they're on. I'm sure I don't. Because I ski in an almost entirely French area I do see a lot of rather competent looking skiers (certainly better than your average British holiday skier) on fairly ropey looking kit, often rented.
I crewed for one skipper, in the Clyde, who often won races despite definitely oldish sails, because he knew exactly what to do with them. As he always explained WHY he wanted the crew to do something I learnt a huge amount. People I cruise with are sometimes bemused, I think, by my fiddling around easing halliards or wanting to barber-haul a genoa.
Sailing, especially racing, in the Solent is always subject to tidal eddies and twitches. It's always fun to watch a smart looking boat with the latest Kevlar sails out pushing the worst of the tide with poorly trimmed sails. Not racing, though - the racing fleets often have both top gear and top crew!
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| pam w wrote: |
| Sailing, especially racing, in the Solent is always subject to tidal eddies and twitches. |
Not really. The reason, for example, so much racing run out of Hamble or Cowes is on the central Brambles plateau is that the tide is quite constant across the race area and as far as it isn't, the differences are obvious and well documented. I've done a few 100 races in this area and know it fairly well. The same goes for other popular championship areas like Hayling Bay and Christchurch Bay. Contrariwise in somewhere complicated like Chichester Harbour you can see some octogenarian skipper go the "obviously wrong way" and emerge 100 yards ahead. "Oh yes that eddy is always there 90 minutes after HW on a spring when the wind is easterly". Which is why nobody runs championships inside Chichester Harbour, nobody wants to travel to a venue and not have a chance against the locals.
Back to the subject in hand.
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@pam w,
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wanting to barber-haul a genoa
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Steady on, that sounds painful!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@dogwatch, @Hurtle,
...well stump my monkey with a yardarm...this skiing site has been kidnapped by pirates ...
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| musher wrote: |
| She insists that she needs a new helmet, and has chosen on exactly the same size as the one she already has. |
She might need a new helmet if she is racing, the specifications have recently changed to make them safer.
I will need to buy one over the summer too.
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FAQ
