 Poster: A snowHead
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Has anybody skied the Vallee Blanche recently? Thinking of giving it a go next season but hear mixed reviews. Some say its a great run, others say it's a tourist trail!
It's a 2 hour drive over from me so would be interested in other peoples opinions before I sign up
Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| TheSkiShuttle wrote: |
| ...Some say its a great run, others say it's a tourist trail!... |
Agreed.
Sunny day, friends, picnic and lovely views.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Did it last year from the Courmayeur side. Loved it. We had about a foot of fresh snow a tthe top. Advantages, as far as I can tell when you do it from Italy include: far fewer people for the top half (the lift is still very old and takes about 15 people at a time) and no need to hike down the arête at the start.
We did it in April and were very lucky with the conditions, making great tracks in un tracked snow on the top half before we met up with the skiers joining from the Chamonix side. At the bottom we did it the hard way, skied off the end of the glacier, hiked up about 200m then skied (and walked a bit through mud and stones) all the way to the bottom. Though it was not the greatest at the bottom, I had a real sense of achievement. The sense of skiing in such a vast high mountain environment is quite something too. 
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Glad i did it, wouldn't rush back tho.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Fresh tracks on the glacier....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Anyone who claims the Vallee Blache is a "dull flat tourist trail" needs to ask their guide to take them down one of the more interesting & steeper variants (Grands Envers / Vrai Vallee Blanche / Italian VB) etc.
Aiguille de Midi is clearly one of the most amazing ski lifts on the planet !?
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Haggis_Trap, exactly. Yes, the "normal" route is a tourist trail, but there are "other" ways down...
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I went in 2013 (on a snowboard). It was awesome. Maybe a bit "touristy" but that's OK with me, as it was still fairly empty and we had 25cm or so of fresh snow at the top. There really is a sense of achievement/adventure, even if it's not "Gnar Central"
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As others have said, the standard way down is very easy and a tourist trail (but quite spectacular) but there are various very good alternative routes. Obviously you need a guide- there are lots of crevasses and he will book the slot on the cable car. You can do two different descents on the same day if you aren't in a super slow group.
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Thanks for the info guys. Sounds like its worth doing for the scenery alone. Will put it on my to do list for next season, and will definately be asking the guide to show us some of the more challenging routes.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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A bit touristy?
I expect you'll be wanting to avoid the Grand Canyon, Eiffel Tower, Leaning Tower of Pisa and Great Wall of China too then? 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hardly.. But if paying for a guide I quite enjoy the feeling of isolation and achievement felt when skiing something off the beaten track, not dodging numerous groups stopped in the middle of the run to take photos!
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^ well ask yer guide for a more interesting VB varient then.
assuming you are carrying your skis the right way round, and he doesn't assess you as complete brit-punter, he should happily oblige.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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That was pretty good....
As ever when it come to technique Hannes Schneider sets a good example.
Seriously : VB can be as easy, or hard / steep / gnarly, as you decide to make it. There are several ways down.
If you a hiring a guide tell him what you are looking for and sign them up for 2 laps.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sounds like a plan! Cheers for the info.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| TheSkiShuttle wrote: |
| Hardly.. But if paying for a guide I quite enjoy the feeling of isolation and achievement felt when skiing something off the beaten track, not dodging numerous groups stopped in the middle of the run to take photos! |
I enjoy stopping to take photographs whether skiing alone, with a peer group or with a guide. I've never had to dodge photographers and don't recall anyone ever having to dodge me either.
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
Anyone who claims the Vallee Blache is a "dull flat tourist trail" needs to ask their guide to take them down one of the more interesting & steeper variants (Grands Envers / Vrai Vallee Blanche / Italian VB) etc.
Aiguille de Midi is clearly one of the most amazing ski lifts on the planet !? |
Nice though it is to see the wide view of the routes in the photo above, it's impossible to visualise what skiing ability, technical skills and previous experience is needed to ski the Blanche variants safely ? As Chamonix is a base I am likely to ski in the next couple of years, I'd quite like to know whether for example, the Grand Envers on a reasonable day would be an option within my comfort zone. Joining a guided group, would crevasse terrain training be an expected prerequisite and would ropes and harnesses be required ? Is there any 'you fall, you die' type exposure in the direct fall line ? Or is the Grand Envers more like a long 'follow-me down carefully' route with some steeps thrown in on the way ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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^ Ross - Grand Envers is 5 pitches of 30-40 degree with flatter sections in between.
You would love it - an amazing glacial route. More remote and exciting skiing than the classic VB.
If you hired a guide they would provide ropes / harness.
No prior training would be required - but you would need to convince the guide you would be "safe" skiing on that terrain.
Guide will have local info i,e how well filled the glaicer is and also which routes are currently in condition and skiable.
Something like Grand Envers can be blocked by massive crevasses at certain times of year.
VB might be the famous run Chamonix "hors piste" - but there is (obviously) a whole world beyond it for the keen and enthusiastic skier to escape the crowds.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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moffatross, you would be very unlikely to do the Grand Envers if you join a guided group on spec. haven't done it myself but I believe there are a couple of pretty steep pitches (as well as all the crevasses etc) so a guide would want to be sure your group were all decent skiers before going for it. everyone in a guided group on the VB will wear harnesses; most punters up there won't have much of a clue about rope work, crevasse rescue etc but the guide may tie you all together to walk the arrete - hilarity may ensue 
I have done the Petit Envers route which joins the main route at the Seracs du Geant. Don't recall any of it being very steep - the bit near the rock buttress above the Seracs du Geant is probably hard red run/easy black run steepness
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^ yip : best way to get the most out of skiing with a guide is to go with group of similar ability and make clear your objectives.
then trust the guides local knowledge to find the best skiing.
Chamonix has plenty opportunity to escape the crowds and any decent ski guide will happily help clients do that.
... they would much rather be skiing someplace interesting than *another* touristy VB lap
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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moffatross, there are plenty of on spec groups in Cham, it's just that if you join one to do the VB it's often the only run they do that day and they pitch the difficulty at the lowest common denominator. you'd almost be better off doing Les Grands Montets because you can get multiple laps in and the guide can ramp up (or down) according to ability. the scenery and isolation isn't quite up to the VB but the Argentiere basin is pretty special, and if you do the Pas de Chevre you catch the bottom of the VB anyway
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| TheSkiShuttle wrote: |
Has anybody skied the Vallee Blanche recently? Thinking of giving it a go next season but hear mixed reviews. Some say its a great run, others say it's a tourist trail!
It's a 2 hour drive over from me so would be interested in other peoples opinions before I sign up
Thanks |
Anyway, notwithstanding comments above, in answer to your question, for sake of 2h drive, of course it is worth it.
Major issue will be picking right day (weather is crucial)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The arrete is the best bit, especially when it's covered by a meter of snow and the rope is down by your knees 
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For anyone never having experienced the high mountains and spectacular views you should do it once. The classique allows relatively inexperienced skiers an insight into a world they otherwise couldn't access. It's a peak into a whole new world of skiing/ mountaineering.
There are many routes , some if which have 40 plus pitches on them.
Sure, there will be some who will sneer at the Valle Blanche as a tourist route but unless you are an experienced alpinist it's a great day out and for many a great adventure .
I've ski it often and still enjoy it.
Please get a guide.
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You know it makes sense.
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moffatross, TheSkiShuttle,
Do it. Do some research on guides though. I can highly recommend Phil Ashby and Rob Jarvis (as above), both will do two routes in a day if group ability and conditions allow. Might do two descents of the VB, first to gauge the group's standard, and second to chase some good snow or steeper variant. Also they may pre-position cars so you may do a quick VB in the morning and have a look at the exit to the Pas de Chèvre and then car it round to GM to ski the that. Timings are crutial as you don't want to get to the second decent too late in the day.  but mid winter, anytime before 1300 should be fine.
Any guide that wants to string out a single decent (without touring another col) of the VB with a fairly strong group and call it a full guiding day……….. isn't worth the money IMO.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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How tricky is the initial arrete?? I was up the Aiguille du Midi at the weekend and it looked tricky to walk down, let alone with inflexible ski boots and a pair of skis and poles?
I have a habit of slipping over walking around town, where I am unlikely to fall 3800m to my death
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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First time I've seen that route pic. First time we skied the standard route. Second time Grand Evers. Needless to say particularly enjoyed the latter. We only did one run each time though so clearly we didn't have a decent guide.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Layne wrote: |
| I've done the VB twice. The first time I was sh** scared walking the arette. We were roped up by the guide and I led. I felt like if I slipped it could be a death fall taking 5 others with me. |
It could well be, a client fell this summer and took another client and the guide with him on the arete. They were wearing crampons. (also another accident at the Col des Ecrins a week ago and the UCPA group in the Mont Blanc this summer). If you don't keep the rope tight and someone falls they can easily pick up enough momentum to take the whole group. This is particularly true when descending and the descent is frequently after a climb which will have left the participants tired and liable to errors. Your rope can even take out other climbers on the route!
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Maigre potentiel de rétention
On sait depuis longtemps ce qui peut arriver lorsqu’une personne glisse ou chute lors d’une marche encordée. Dans son rapport d’activité 1980-1983, le club alpin allemand DAV a publié une étude exhaustive à ce sujet. Sur un névé durci, il suffit d’une traction de 50-400 N pour arracher un alpiniste à sa position. Une nouvelle étude publiée l’année dernière par Gottlieb Braun-Elwert dans la revue Bergundsteigen confirme la première. La probabilité qu’une personne bloque un poids de 40 kg attaché à la même corde est nulle sur une pente de 30°. Comme on peut s’y attendre, il y a moins de chutes à la montée qu’à la descente. L’auteur de l’étude arrive à la conclusion qu’un alpiniste ne peut guère qu’espérer un miracle s’il doit arrêter le dévissage, sur une pente de neige durcie, d’un compagnon de cordée pesant 80 kg. En principe, c’est la chute.
Source:
La problématique des accidents par entraînement. Les alpes 2009 7:16-19 |
to conclude: a climber has little chance of stopping a fall on hard snow if his partner weights 80kg (pretty much everyone with a rucksack bar very small women and kids.
However. If the rope is out and everyone is wearing a harness it is quick for someone to rig a belay, place an ice screw if necessary etc. A well managed rope can be used to retain clients who make a misstep before they fall. On flatter glacial terrain and uphill you can stop someone who falls but yeah, there are probably times where guides rope up clients knowing that if one falls they could take the whole group. Squeaky bum time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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davidof, I always wear crampons walking down the arête but have rarely seen ski guides do that with clients I guess on balance it's way more trouble than it's worth.
On this rare occasion I think davidof, is wrong, I would agree that on a slope of hard snow it would be an issue but the arête is more of a slot and usually soft, plus it's not that steep, also it's easy to just clip a tape around the fixed rope. As far as Layne skiing it, I did once see a Pghm guy try and ski it from the very top with tragic results!
IMHO the important thing is to have a hand free, so strapping skis and sticks securely on your sac is the way to go, one hand on the rope the other for an axe if you have one. What most guides do is carry all the ski poles while the clients carry their skis, short roping them, I guess if someone went a real pisser he would have to jump down the opposite side!!
If the arête really freaks you out the vb can be done from the italian side.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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davidof, great, I've always been too scared to do the VB because of that walk. Having read your post, and knowing that you are not into bs, I shall never do it! 
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The arrete this weekend...
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Pedantica, With crampons and a hand free to hold the fixed rope, you can do it (slowly). The off-piste skiing afterwards is what you should be worried about
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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mountainaddict, Precisely - not difficult at all...blimmin tourists have ruined it
I still 'bricked it' the first time walking out of the tunnel though.
Fantastic pic!!!
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FAQ
what if like it carrying the wrong way, I do not like carrying it the right way ... Is this part of mountain etiquette? 
