 Poster: A snowHead
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i know this is a funny time of year to be thinking about this, and that it's been discussed before, but wondered if things had moved on since the last posts.
I've driven in Switzerland where cars without chains were stopped and not allowed to continue.. in either direction. What i'm wondering is are snow socks now accepted in european countries, mainly Switzerland/France/Austria, as an alternative to chains?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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bambi, this is a bit like one of those "first cuckoo in spring" moments.  I think the answer to your question could run to several pages as the picture on snow socks is not 100% clear. But you will need snow tyres - optional in France but highly recommended. But you can still be required to have chains as well as snow tyres, so yours is a good question. Chains are better and not difficult if you practice a few times.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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don't have specific snow tyres.. run an XC90 4WD with pirelli mud & snow tyres.. they ok? Do have chains, but socks are so much more practical, hence the question..
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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they're not snow tyres so you might run into problems in Austria or Switzerland but be OK (legally) in France. There were reports from France in the last few years of police insisting that 4WD cars used chains, when conditions were really bad, unless they had snow tyres with plenty of tread on. Most of the time the roads are fairly clear, of course, but if you arrive late, when the clearance of local roads might have finished for the night you might struggle and if you arrive on a snowy transfer day when the snow is building up faster than they can clear it, you might be required to use "special equipment". Provided you have chains just in case, no reason why you shouldn't try to get away with just using the socks.
I'm sure you'll get plenty of feedback and suggestions, including from the experts on Austrian/Swiss rules.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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conti mud and snow is all I have, and is all that most of Germany will have. Still carry chains, but usually as an emergency "just in case thing". This year was quite exceptional in actually needing them. Those with 4WD didn't (but probably carried them anyway), and I'd expect were only on M+S.
Depends where you ski tbh.
No idea about socks.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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bambi, the accepted snow tyres have a snowflake and mountain symbol on. Maybe yours are fine.
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audi a4 quattro summer tyres and socks worked fine even on unploughed roads, wish i'd bought socks sooner as there a darn sight easier to use and store. as long as there tuv approved they're fine across europe.
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bambi, ok....
Yes this is first cuckoo I think but this year we all do know a little bit more ... And certain things are certain...
Certainty 1
The Swiss law is clear. When conditions demand, you need chains or snow tyres.
Hit a car when you should have had chains or tyres on and the Swiss will throw the full force of the law at you even if it wasn't your fault
Your insurance company will take a dim view of it
Certainty 2
The tyres you need must have a snowflake symbol on them
They can be m&s or just winter tyres but they need the snowflake symbol and the Swiss police WILL check
Certainty 3
Chains are a pain, and won't help you much if you need to drive the length of France in a snowstorm - which I have done many times
Snow socks are great if you need to get 10m up an incline to the garage - many friends have used them and they self-destruct in about 1km the moment you use them on mixed snow and tarmac. A friend had to drive to Moutiers from st Martin last season and get there quick - summer tyres and snow socks, mixed surface, snow socks shredded about halfway back. Gone....completely. As I said, great for short distances on pure snow surface ... But even I f you wish them to last longer and work as winter tyres would, the snow socks will ignore your fantasy and simply shred when they hit mixed surface.
Certainly 4
Winter tyres are now exceptionally good. This coming year for us, nokian wr series.
When you are not using summer tyres because they are in the garage on your alloys, you are saving your summer tyres. In other words, the only expense with winter tyres is the initial layout on tyres and steel rims, they don't cost you anything more, since your summer tyres are resting.
Certainty 5
Winter tyres driving down thorough France have saved our bacon on numerous times over the last two decades - three times cars have pulled out of lines of cars straight in front us - bang bang bang goes the abs and we stop in time, on summer tyres it would have been bang bang BANG into the other car. And through the Jura in deep snow? Fine on winter tyres - impossible on chains or socks
Almost a certainty 6
Uk insurance companies now waking up to the importance of winter tyres - gone is the 2010 nonsense of upping the premium massively if you told them you had winter tyres - they are mostly getting sensible
Advice from tyres companies - make sure the speed rating is right although you can go down by one if your insurance company agrees.
Don't irrationally think that socks will conquer the earth. They won't.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sun 18-05-14 18:07; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Over the last 30 something years driving to ski holidays in the French and Swiss Alps we have hit a snowstorm, precisely twice, once with snow tyres on which was OK as ALL the other traffic around Lyon was doing around 15 mph (added 3 hours to the journey.) Second time I was in a German 4x4 with newish summer tyres and it was also fine.
The approach to our place is up a steepish slope and then a sharp right hand bend, never had a problem getting up there and it's next to a chairlift (Probably down to the skill of the driver I guess!)
Always have a set of chains in the boot just in case and to so show the Police but have never needed them.
valais2, Must be very unlucky or waits for a cr*p weather forecast! 
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boredsurfin, yep, I love it.....
But truthfully always go more or less on the same dates for our 5 trips per year, and have to live with what the elements throw at us. We go Christmas (two journeys in deep snow over the last two decades), feb, (three deep snow journeys over two decades) and Easter (only deep snow going up our hill, but that's in ch so the police are at the bottom of the hill stopping everyone without winter tyres and chains). This is enough to readily justify winter tyres and I wouldn't be without them. Never used chains. Ever. Not even in 30 cms of fresh going up to resort and in the steep car park outside our garage.
And of course we've had two bad winters in cambridge over the last decade. We had winter tyres on. We go the kids to school and I got to work on time. Smug? No. Just pleased to be safe and on time, thanks to the right tyres on our two wheel drive cars.
Seasoned friend in ch - in 1999 I asked should I get a 4wd he said no, winter tyres first and then 4wd - boy was he right.
All my points apply to ch and that's what the op asked. Are socks enough to avoid being stopped at inconvenient times by French and particularly ch police. Clear answer: no. If anyone wants to live in a fantasy world and think they will be a good substitute for winter tyres, that's up to them. Reality will bite when the snow falls and the police start waving.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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In any winter there are only a few really bad days, in terms of snow/ice conditions on the roads. You just never know when that's going to be. I got to Arabba without chains in January, over an officially closed pass, without the slightest problem (4 new snow tyres) but once in the town, having to try to find somewhere to put the car, I put the chains on. You can't drive into a snowdrift to park, and hope to get out without them. If you're parked in the open when big snow is forecast overnight it's also wise to put chains on, if you have an early start. If it's before the first pass of the snowplough the snow might be too deep to get through it even with chains, and after the first pass there is likely to be a damn bit wall of hard snow in front of you. Even after some hard graft with a shovel, you'll be glad you have chains on.
My brother in law, in a rented Swiss car with snow tyres, was required by French police to put snow chains on before being allowed to continue up the road from Notre Dame de Bellecombe. I have no idea whether he could have got away with snow socks - but there's no way I'd drive in the Alps without snow tyres AND chains to hand. But I do drive a lot in snow - I'd probably not bother with winter tyres for one trip to France but I'd certainly have chains. They are far more reliable, less likely to fall apart at 2 am in a blizzard and really not a lot of hassle to fit. I'm an OAP with arthritic fingers and I can do it in a couple of minutes.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| valais2 wrote: |
| ... And of course we've had two bad winters in cambridge over the last decade. We had winter tyres on. We go the kids to school and I got to work on time. Smug? No. Just pleased to be safe and on time, thanks to the right tyres on our two wheel drive cars. |
I've ridden my track bike every day in Cambridge for much longer than that. I use slick tyres. I have to cycle around people blocking the roads outside my house with their cars, mostly whilst pointlessly taking their fat kids to schools. The knowledge that some of them think they need winter tyres doesn't really surprise me. It is kind of flat and exceedingly tame here.
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philwig, wow you have a short fuse...maybe ask questions before judging
At the time we were building a house outside cambridge and needed to drive them a few miles - not around the city. They can now walk and cycle to school now the house is finished .. And that's how it should be.
And on the particular day in my mind, the teversham road was ice from end to end - a porsche boxster written off in the hedge, a vauxhall impaled in the side of a pickup, and a vw hung on a fence post. Carnage. So snow tyres irrelevant in Cambridgeshire? A constant black ice problem in the fens, I assure you. Any temp below 7 degrees and the winter tyres give 30 PC better stopping.
Get your facts right before you are so offensive.
Like you I rode all weathers in the town, never using the car, and have the same sentiments as you regarding people who drive unnecessarily in urban areas.
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