 Poster: A snowHead
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snowball, according to stanton on the thread he maintains for the Arlberg conditions St. Anton got about 20cm higher up yesterday and last night. A bit more is due over the weekend. It's not great, and off piste is probably going to need a lot more to be worth it (unless you know where to look), but the whole area is open and the pistes sounds OK
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lots of slides in Serre Chevalier today, and a 16 year old snowboarder died after being caught in one near Cucumelle. We saw several large cracks under the Cibouit chairlift on areas that would often be part of the Cibouit Noir piste. Idiots were still attempting to ski there, despite warnings from the lift staff and pisteurs to avoid it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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So without really wanting to turn this into the weather thread, what's the near- to medium-term prognosis looking like now? The southern alps look like they got hit pretty hard, but I'm guessing they suffer from the same problems as the western alps (at least above a reasonable altitude) and are therefore pretty sketchy?
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I see a couple of skiers died on Couis 1 at Pila on Saturday: it was my local hill for 7 years so I know it well. There's a bit of a funnel which I'd definitely avoid in the current 3 and 4. Their companion took the path and reported them missing. You can ski little pitches under the ski lift from path to path, which might be a safer way to get some off-piste in the current conditions.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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davidof, we were out with Mathieu again on Monday and he was digging in to the snow pack explaining that the current snow at low altitude in the trees will transform into facets very soon making conditions worse with new snow to come - it was the exact reasoning why this was to happen that ended up being lost in translation 
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fluter, Do you have a link to any info on the accident ? I've skied that run a few times too.
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AndAnotherThing.., Those gullies at the sides of the tree runs are pretty dangerous when the snow isn't stable. And the risk can be very localised.
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Avalanche Poodle, Couis 1 is above the tree line running down off the top ridge. The line usually skied rejoins the track but as fluter says there is a bit of a funnel between some rocks about 1/3rd of the way down. IIRC I seem to recall possible terrain traps if you keep right and don't rejoin the patch, towards the bottom of the pitch .
However they have put in a travelator in which takes skiers further to the skiers right along the ridge so I wondered if it was in that sector.
A news report here:
http://www.lastampa.it/2013/12/28/edizioni/aosta/pila-valanga-nella-zona-del-couis-guide-e-unit-cinofile-in-azione-NbVQRlvpUbrD15FItsiHXO/pagina.html
Which contains links to a report of other incidents in the Valley, a guy taken (died) in Chamois and a big slide off the Toula lift. Bad times 
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Just wanted to ask a quick question re the snow base and what the coming warm spell in the alps will mean. Seems like the freezing level will be at around 2500-2800 on Monday/Tuesday in La PLagne/ Les arc. Just wondering what this means? Will be it be a good thing or just destabilise the base further?
Seems like its been pretty bad this year, and i am just looking ahead to when i go for 2 weeks on the 11th and whether or not off piste is going to be a nono.
Also am i correct in thinking that it is safer (in regards to avalanche risk)to ski off piste in trees or is that just rubbish?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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xander89, it's hard to say, and best checked afterwards to see the actual effect on the weak layers and at what altitude and on what aspect. In theory a freeze thaw could help stabilise the snow pack.
Skiing in trees can be safer however it only applies to larger trees and not glades, also wet snow can flow thro trees and you can end up with a bread slicer effect. Things could be very different by the 11th and there should be some safe off piste maybe best to join a professionally led group if your not sure.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| xander89 wrote: |
Just wanted to ask a quick question re the snow base and what the coming warm spell in the alps will mean. Seems like the freezing level will be at around 2500-2800 on Monday/Tuesday in La PLagne/ Les arc. Just wondering what this means? Will be it be a good thing or just destabilise the base further?
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There is no freeze/thaw effect on shaded slopes this time of year, the sun is too low, even if the air temperature is warm the snow remains very cold. So no change on north sector slopes. The only thing that can alter that is if it rains, a lot, at altitude but even then the rain often penetrates the snowpack in percolation columns leaving areas of fragility. On south facing slopes you will get spring snow, avoid skiing in the afternoon if the zero iso is at that altitude. West and East, something in between although East facing slopes are "hotter" than west facing slopes this time of year.
What will change the situation wrt to the current weak layer... summer in principal when all the snow melts completely.
As jbob says, off piste is not a no-no, you just need to take care, speak to pisteurs, read the bulletin, go with a guide or suitable instructor. I was skiing this on NYEve
big steep SW facing slope with fresh powder on a transformed base. Les Arcs/la Plagne is higher so you have less choice about where to ski so I would talk to local professionals. Guides I know are skiing every day in the Espace Killy at the moment. N. face of the Bellecote or les Lanches are probably out  .
There is a snowheads les Arcs thread which may give you some more local advice.
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davidof, nice pic.
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You know it makes sense.
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davidof, if the temps are (relatively) warm, will this facilitate a reversal of the faceting process? If so, will a few mild days have any significant effect?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| davidof wrote: |
Les Arcs/la Plagne is higher so you have less choice about where to ski so I would talk to local professionals. Guides I know are skiing every day in the Espace Killy at the moment. N. face of the Bellecote or les Lanches are probably out .
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What about La Foglietta at Sainte Foy, still possible with a local guide?? Going 24th Jan and was really hoping to be able to do it this year.
Phil
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Poster: A snowHead
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| davidof wrote: |
Les Arcs/la Plagne is higher so you have less choice about where to ski so I would talk to local professionals. Guides I know are skiing every day in the Espace Killy at the moment. N. face of the Bellecote or les Lanches are probably out .
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What about La Foglietta at Sainte Foy, still possible with a local guide?? Going 24th Jan and was really hoping to be able to do it the year.
Phil
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| peanuthead wrote: |
| davidof, if the temps are (relatively) warm, will this facilitate a reversal of the faceting process? If so, will a few mild days have any significant effect? |
large facets, depth hoar, don't re-transform into round grains, that is their end state until they turn back to water, it is only small facets (<2mm) that transform back into round grains if the temperature gradient is removed. But there is no guarantee that warm weather will remove any temperature gradient in the snowpack. You'd have to measure the temperature right the way through.
However if depth hoar is buried under a meter of snow they will be less dangerous, one the fresh snow has settled. Best thing now would be a monster snow dump.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| qwertyuiop7 wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
Les Arcs/la Plagne is higher so you have less choice about where to ski so I would talk to local professionals. Guides I know are skiing every day in the Espace Killy at the moment. N. face of the Bellecote or les Lanches are probably out .
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What about La Foglietta at Sainte Foy, still possible with a local guide?? Going 24th Jan and was really hoping to be able to do it the year.
Phil |
As jbob has said, a lot can happen between now and then. The advantage with the Foglietta is that it gets skied a lot. You may get a more accurate answer by posting on the Henry's Avalanche Talk website as they will know local conditions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yes, textbook slide, accumulations due to wind loading in couloirs, breaking around rocks and takes the skier down the whole face. Nasty.
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Davidof. 100000, wow, that's a lot of hits.
I was looking on the vid for any gazex but couldn't see any! it's huge, with a sizeable crown wall, could have been even worse.
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| jbob wrote: |
Davidof. 100000, wow, that's a lot of hits.
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Yes I normally run at around 10,000 hits a day in the ski season so I was a bit concerned that the server wouldn't cope but it came through with flying colours, barely noticing the strain. Which is nice as I wrote the Content Management System that runs PisteHors these days myself.
The article went absolutely mad on Facebook where 90% of hits came from. A lesson for the avalanche forecasting services perhaps? I think they've been reticent because they have a lot more at stake if they get things wrong so prefer to wait and see if there are problems then make retrospective predictions.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The Swiss are starting to get concerned
http://www.lematin.ch/suisse/Faites-gaffe-disent-les-pros/story/19021732
Watch Out! Say the pros and even they hardly want to go off piste.
From Google Translate
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Seven victims in just five days! The "white death" continues to strike since the beginning of the season in the Swiss Alps. So much so that the Swiss Association of Mountain Guides held a press conference this morning prevention. The absence of a catastrophic nivologique situation, which unfortunately has very little chance to improve with time.
"It's almost as if there were ball bearings under the layer of new snow, popularizes specialist Robert Bolognesi. There is a risk of slab avalanches, often triggered by skiers themselves, and even more on the slopes of the northern sector. Care should be taken throughout the winter! "Unless, altitude until a cold period not followed a period of rainy ideally heat. At this time, the "ball bearings" find themselves better cohesion through freezing. But this configuration is unfortunately very unlikely.
Not seek unnecessary trouble
Freeriders themselves, who spend most of their time in the valleys and snowy channels, did not make mistakes. Faced with this "early season hyperpiégeux" Waldensian Géraldine Fasnacht even chose to offer a few days of adventure away from the snow, Ethiopia! In Verbier, Dominique Perret not outright leave the marked trails. "In addition, I would find the best stones and the worst avalanches. In short, it would look unnecessary trouble. The worst is that all winter will be difficult and frustrating, unlike the previous one, which was ideal in terms of the amount of snow and stability of the coat. This season, he will be very careful! "
Not the strong lambda tourists who have little time on their hands to quench a thirst often unreasonable powder. Especially since they do not always have the knowledge in line with such ambition! "I advise them to carefully analyze the avalanche bulletin before embarking on a slope, learn from mountain professionals or even be accompanied by a guide," emphasizes Xavier de Le Rue. The four-time winner of the Verbier Xtreme, who survived a big avalanche of Orsières side in 2008, simply preferred to emigrate in the Pyrenees at the end of the year. There, the situation is better.
Knowing how to use the equipment
Anne-Flore Marxer, fourth best snowboarders of all time according to a trade magazine, has chosen his side of "get legs" on the slopes of Crans-Montana in the early season. "The off-piste is hyperdangereux now. It's smarter not to take undue risk. "Young Champion advises those who are might nonetheless equipped to do the famous trio shovel probe detector avalanche victim, but also" know s 'use'! It also recommends the famous ABS bag fitted with airbags triggerable by the skier, supposed to keep out of the avalanche.
Dominique Perret not yet seen this technology in the solution presented by many as a miracle (see box). "At least not until his trip does not happen automatically once swept away by the avalanche." Veteran freeride, which has already been taken in a big cast, Switzerland believes that the level of equipment is higher level of knowledge. "People would be better to invest in training before to buy the last bag cry. This season, they have to know waive or change their plan even if the powder called |
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davidof, I've mostly been working on piste so far this winter, and for once I have been quite happy about that...!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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davidof, offpisteskiing, clearly very precarious. But really what is story? Are these warnings primarily aimed at non-trained skiers who know an area and like to venture off-piste, or is this a source of concern for experts too? In other words, do you reckon an experienced guide should be able to take clients out all week with reasonable confidence they can avoid danger? Or are they going to be breathing serious sigh of relief at end of every day?
Any other guides out there, please feel free to row in.
And if things are so bad, why is risk only 3? Because if they put it to 4 now they will have to leave it there for most of season? When they issue these kind of warnings and use language like "critical" avalanche situation you would think it merits 4. Maybe 3 is covering way too broad a spectrum of scenarios. No chance it's because if risk is 4 Swiss are worried people will just go to France instead where risk is 3, and vice versa?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Scary
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peanuthead, my personal concerns are not just relating to avalanche risk but also to the thin snowpack and associated risks of destroying skis & body (as per Herr Schumacher, my mate Rob who broke a femur early season 2 years ago on a rock, my mate Stew who put himself into intensive care for 10 days 6 years ago early season on some rocks, and lots of knackered skis) ...
Is it reasonable to ski off piste in coming weeks (as I will be)? Absolutely - there are loads of ways to minimise risk: choosing slopes below 30º, selection of slope aspects, safe travel modes etc etc etc.
To be pedantic though, one of the big problems is the idea that the risk is 'only' 3.
3 = 'Considerable' on the European Avalanche Scale: to quote "The snowpack is moderately to poorly bonded on many steep slopes " and "Triggering is possible, even from low additional loads, particularly on the indicated steep slopes. In some cases medium-sized, in isolated cases large-sized natural avalanches are possible."
That is a pretty fair assessment of how things stand currently.
The reason the situation is critical is that it won't take much new snowfall, or wind-loading, to make certain slopes very dangerous again, and that given the nature of the weak layer it is likely to be present most of the season.
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You know it makes sense.
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The Northern Alps risk has risen to 4 in the latest bulletin.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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offpisteskiing, I've had a quick check and fortunately, the problems aren't as acute in the Lofoten Islands 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Weathercam, not so sure about the snow pack but the atmospherics are looking good for next week, have fun with all the digging.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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All this is making me feel jittery about our Easter touring trip. Tunnel rides and apartment in Termignon are booked but not the huts. I've a feeling we're going to be looking for places with a bit more traffic than usual.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Will this coming weeks very mild temperatures help the situation, or make it worse??
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Pisteurs and experts talk avalanche risk, risk 3 and risk 4 days
http://pistehors.com/avalanche-control-23150743.htm
> Will this coming weeks very mild temperatures help the situation, or make it worse??
We're expecting natural avalanches on Southerly slopes tomorrow so initially worse. Those slopes will stabilize quickly though. North facing slopes.... not too much will change because the sun is too low and days too short to put much energy into them.
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First day of attending the week long Euro Avalanche Course yesterday in La Grave
Probably about fifteen people on it.
Course has been running since 95 http://www.euro-avalanche.com/
Course made up of around four or five young dudes aiming to be guides.
Four of five guys already working up in Scotland & other places in various guises
And then four or five people like me doing the course to better their knowledge - two Yanks from Colorado doing a season in LG along with two other Brits doing a season in LG.
Morning was theory and then after lunch drove up to the Col and divided into groups (professionals & civilians) and then skinned up a little way to dig a large snow hole to examine the profile in order to asses temp gradient and determine layers stability et
Then various tap tests after cutting out blocks, and that was quite scary to see the layers just slide off, and the bottom layer (0 -30cm) totally faceted and no adhesion.
Then back down to the classroom to write up profiles and then more theory.
For me it's an early start to drive over the Col in the dark to LG from here in Serre then late finish to drive back over again, least weather's ok this week for that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The avy report from the Aosta authorities is quite specific with regard to the current issues:
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07/01/14 - For the next few days: all exposures are can be critical and the stability conditions change greatly from one slope to another, so off-piste requires a good experience in local hazard assessment.
Let's see in detail the main problems:
1 - presence of surface slabs triggerable by the passage of a hiker/skier. Those slabs are very thick and big at high altitude. Pay attention not only to the slopes you cross, but also to the accumulations above the slope, because there can still occur natural release of slabs of medium size.
2 - in some N and E slopes there is still possible to stress the deepest layers and trigger
old slabs which lie on a bottom layer of snow like "salt". Situation unlikely, but dangerous because it would mean an avalanche involving all the snowpack.
3 - The rise in temperatures causes surface wet snow avalanches from steep sunny slopes (south and west). Detachments that can be either natural (for example from the slopes over the roads) or triggered by the passage of a skier.
Ice climbers should pay particular attention to the choice of routes, particularly taking into account two parameters: the wind accumulations in the canyons above the falls and the increasing temperatures.
The avalanche hazard is 3 -considerable in the whole region. |
http://appweb.regione.vda.it/DBWEB/bollnivometeo/bollnivometeo.nsf/vista_e/$first?OpenDocument&L=_e
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Woosh, very sad to die on an avi training course.
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