 Poster: A snowHead
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PICTURES: Finnish F-18 engine check reveals effects of volcanic dust:
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/04/16/340727/pictures-finnish-f-18-engine-check-reveals-effects-of-volcanic.html
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The Finnish air force has released images showing the effects of volcanic dust ingestion from inside the engines of a Boeing F-18 Hornet fighter, while it prepares to make inspections on several additional aircraft.
Five of the air force’s Hornets were involved in a training exercise on the morning of 15 April, just hours before the imposition of airspace restrictions due to the ash cloud spreading from a major volcanic eruption in Iceland.
One aircraft’s engines have been inspected so far using a boroscope, with melted ash clearly visible on its inside surface. The air force decided to release the images to show the potentially damaging effects of current flight activities, says chief information officer Joni Malkamäki. |
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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OK, I'm trying to arrange the new real lardy bus from London with Snow Express. It will be an overnight friday bus to geneva, leaving Victoria Coach station at around 7pm and getting to geneva in time to transfer to the regular lardy buses.
To get an idea of who would be interested, sign up here: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1513477#1513477
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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altis, I saw those pictures on pprune a day or so ago. Trouble is, we don't know how relevant they are to the density of volcanic ash distributed over Northern Europe, as opposed to near the volcano rim over Iceland.
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achilles, Finland is not exactly near Iceland - most of it is further away than most of the UK. But I do wonder if too much margin of error has been applied.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Nats update
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Statement on Icelandic volcanic eruption: Sunday April 18, 1500
Conditions around the movement of the layers of the volcanic ash cloud over the UK remain dynamic. NATS is maintaining close dialogue with the Met Office and with the UK’s safety regulator, the CAA, in respect of the international civil aviation policy we follow in applying restrictions to use of airspace. We are currently awaiting CAA guidance.
We are working closely with Government, airports and airlines, and airframe and aero engine manufacturers to get a better understanding of the effects of the ash cloud and to seek solutions.
Based on the latest information from the Met Office, NATS advises that the restrictions currently in place across UK controlled airspace will remain in place until at least 0700 (local time) tomorrow, Monday 19 April.
We will of course continue to make best use of any breaks in the ash cloud to offer opportunities to airlines as they arise. There may be limited opportunity in Orkney and Shetland from 1900 (local time) today for some flights to operate under individual coordination with ATC. However, it is most unlikely that many flights will operate today and anyone hoping to travel should contact their airline before travelling to the airport.
We will continue to monitor Met Office information and review our arrangements in line with that. We will advise further arrangements at approximately 2100 (local time), today. |
Interesting to read
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| We are working closely with Government, airports and airlines, and airframe and aero engine manufacturers to get a better understanding of the effects of the ash cloud and to seek solutions. |
Are they now looking at real effects on the test planes.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I am a bit puzzled. Volcanic eruptions in Indonesia are commonplace. Aviation is simply routed around the ash clouds. I suppose it is the quality of the dust that makes the difference. And of course it rains all the time in Indonesia.
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planeurge, we can route around but not much use when everyone wants to go to the places under the ash cloud....
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No consolation to those still grounded, but I'm very glad I made the decision to drive (aside from the horrendous drive back on Tue, of course) as it's simply deserted in Flaine. Hardly anyone on the slopes and whereas it is a bit sloppy down low, it's very bearable up top. I can see little change ahead. Get driving, give up on the planes!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Slightly off topic but my five year old daughter likes the Ash cloud as she happens to be in "Ash class" at school!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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nozawaonsen, Here's hopeing evrything is crossed 
Just worked the train journey out for tomorrow. It's do able but expensive, I would not hit Val T until 23.30
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 18-04-10 16:19; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Although if you are planning on flying into GVA....
From: http://www.gva.ch/en/Desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-11/
Situation at 11:40 am, April 18, 2010 --- The Airport informs passengers that following a decision of the Federal Office for Civil Aviation, Swiss Airspace will be closed until April 19, 02:00 pm. This closure is likely to be extended depending on the development of the volcanic ash.
Passengers should contact their airline and check flight status information for all destinations.
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ctskifam, I get the feeling it will be a pan euro decision , No real use in just one area opening up.
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You know it makes sense.
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Well, my wife and daughter are now booked on 28th April flight from Melbourne to Heathrow, QANTAS have cancelled all flights to Europe through until 22nd April. If that doesn't go they are on standby for 4th May and after that it will be stay in Oz until #2 daughter is born and gets a passport and visa for UK. (needs visa as accompanying me on an overseas posting with the RN) so that won't be until late June at the best.....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ozzie skier, I hope yours do get to fly, else it's going to be a nightmare for you.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Seems like there is some though been put into it at last
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European airlines have carried out test flights to see if it is safe to fly through volcanic ash from Iceland that has disrupted air travel for four days.
Dutch, German and French carriers sent planes up without suffering obvious damage, prompting some to question whether the risk has been overstated.
The flight bans came amid fears that the ash - a mixture of glass, sand and rock particles - can seriously damage aircraft engines. Airlines are estimated to be losing some £130m ($200m) a day.
Dutch carrier KLM said it had flown a Boeing 737-800 up to the usual maximum altitude of 13km (8 miles) on Saturday.
KLM chief executive Peter Hartman, who was on board, said there was "nothing unusual" about the flight.
"If the technical examination confirms this... we then hope to get permission as soon as possible to partially restart our operations," he added.
Germany's two biggest airlines, Lufthansa and Air Berlin, also said they had carried out test flights without apparent damage, as did Air France.
Air Berlin spokeswoman Diana Daedelow told the BBC: "It is astonishing that these findings... have seemingly been ignored in the decision-making process of the aviation safety authorities." |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8628323.stm
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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laundryman, I accept that Finland is nowhere near Iceland, but I do not know where the Finnish F18s were flying- after all, I have been in a RAF Vulcan flying over the US. I do know that I have seen reports that other jet aircraft have flown in Northern Europe with no perceptible damage on first inspection. Whilst I appreciate a deep strip might reveal something untoward, the F18 engine damage was visible by boroscope. On that basis I conclude that the F18s were flying in a much denser ash cloud than, say, the KLM jet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dwarf Vader wrote: |
| Just worked the train journey out for tomorrow. It's do able but expensive, I would not hit Val T until 23.30 |
Are you going to go for the train tomorrow then? I'm still crossing everything available for flights on Tuesday, but not confident 
Will check out Tuesday/Wednesday trains though...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I wouldn't put too much faith in some of the"test" flights. The Lufthansa flights were only done to FL130 (13000ft), and weren't test flights but one flight only ferry flights to get aircraft in the right position which is nowhere near where they need to be for widebody aircraft. Probably good test points for Dash 8 and similar size Turbo prop aircraft who routinely fly at that altitude but for passenger jets it is not good to routinely fly at that altitude for a variety of reasons:
1. Not economical, fuel consumption goes through the roof as drag increases significantly due to the denser air,
2. Significant increase in noise (someone will complain  )
3. Massive increase in the rate that aircraft accrue fatigue life, airliners are designed to fly at FL300 (or thereabouts). By operating for extended periods at lower altitudes there will be a significant reduction in the life of an aircraft and increase in the amount of maintenance and spares consumed to keep aircraft flying.
The above being said maybe there is scope to have widebody aircraft go into an unaffected hub and then use turboprops to get people to final destination. I'd be happy with that if meant the girls got back to Soton (even if their luggage has to be shipped via ground transport from Rome or Bacelona)
I'm surprised that NASA (or the other atmospheric research agencies) don't have all of their research aircraft in Europe already trying to work out what the actual ash densities are (to be fair Cranfield University has been doing some work)
Anyway back to something skiing related I had a great week in Cham with all the guys at Coldfusion over Easter.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| achilles wrote: |
| I accept that Finland is nowhere near Iceland, but I do not know where the Finnish F18s were flying |
In which case, I don't understand your reference to "near the volcano rim over Iceland". The article mentions Finnish planes and a Finnish airfield (albeit with reference to Hawk trainers). A spokesman talked about the F18's "short-term flying" causing "substantial damage". On the basis of the damage, it said that the Finnish air force was suspending training flights - presumably from Finnish airfields. It's a bit of a stretch imagining the plane anywhere near Iceland.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Jo225, I was bored/hungry for the slopes. I don't think I'll train tomorrow. I want to see what the European reaction is to the test flights etc.
I will look at it again tomorrow. If needed 
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laundryman, and it's a bit strange imagining that such corrosive damage could be caused by flying through ash 1400 miles or so from the eruption - so I wonder if there is some sort of training arrangement such as we have with, for example, Cyprus and Canada. Wherever those Finnish jets were flying - it appears to be a lot more of a hazardous area than experienced by KLM.
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Isn't there something about the fact that the Iceland eruption is through ice (not likely to be the case in Indonesia) which renders the ash particles particularly abrasive? I watched a discussion about this on French TV the other afternoon but with the intention of improving my French rather than my vulcanology; I couldn't follow all the ins and outs.
I haven't seen any suggestions that flying through the cloud would necessarily be dangerous, rather that experiences suggests that it might be. Skiing off piste can occasionally end in death in an avalanche, but far more often it doesn't - even when conditions are inherently unstable. The fact that a couple of guys had a nice afternoon on a steep powder field somewhere doesn't necessarily prove anything, does it?
All very difficult - I'm glad I'm not having to make any decisions.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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nozawaonsen, arrr the old switch a round, so they can cover both angles no matter what happens. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Having lunch with some friends in the garden this afternoon, a light plane flew over low, we all pointed at it!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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NATS update
| Quote: |
Statement on Icelandic volcanic eruption: Sunday April 18, 2100
Based on the latest information from the Met Office, NATS advises that the current restrictions across UK controlled airspace due to the volcanic ash cloud will remain in place until at least 1900 (local time) on Monday 19 April.
There may currently be some limited opportunities in Shetland for flights, subject to individual co-ordination with ATC. However, anyone hoping to travel should contact their airline before travelling to the airport.
Conditions around the movement of the layers of the volcanic ash cloud over the UK remain dynamic. NATS is maintaining close dialogue with the Met Office and with the UK's safety regulator, the CAA, in respect of the international civil aviation policy we follow in applying restrictions to use of airspace. We are currently awaiting CAA guidance.
We are working closely with Government, airports and airlines, and airframe and aero engine manufacturers to get a better understanding of the effects of the ash cloud and to seek solutions.
The next update will be issued at approximately 0300 (local time). |
This is beginning to suck my balls. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| jbob wrote: |
| Having lunch with some friends in the garden this afternoon, a light plane flew over low, we all pointed at it! |
Light aircraft are usually operating under VFR (visual flight rules) like those Lufthansa planes, not affected by the closure of controlled airspace which is what is keeping the passanger and cargo jets on the ground
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Poster: A snowHead
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laundryman, aha. Thanks. Well clear of the eruption, I accept. Well North of us, too. It'll be interesting to know the results of the airliner tests. My guess is there will have to be a thorough deep strip of the engines - but given the financial pressures I ma sure that can be quickly arranged. I suspect they'll have a careful look at the pitot-static systems, too.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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achilles, it will be fascinating. I'm convinced that some surfaces around here have picked up beyond the usual level of grime and I think it has been hazier today that would normally be expected at the time of year on a cloudless day. At the same time, I have my doubts that it's unsafe to fly (based on no professional knowledge whatsoever). I'll have to ask my dad his opinion. Hopefully my lungs have not been damaged by my usual outdoor exertions today!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Drove to London from Geneva today to visit my family via the Eurotunnel (I'd booked this months ago!). A very smooth run of about six and a half hours from Geneva to Calais. The Eurotunnel terminal was very busy, and it took about an hour from leaving the terminal, going through passport control, and then boarding a train.
All things considered though it really wasn't too bad, I was expecting a lot worse at Calais.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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altis, Cool animation, RJA267 seems to headed straight for Iceland!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Had to Transfer my flight Wednesday As Tuesdays is full up.
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I don't suppose all this rain we getting atm will make any difference.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Alexandra, maybe you just drive like someone who doesn't have a fire up their bum? Or take stops every couple of hours, which research shows makes you much more alert and able to cope with sudden problems on the road.
But I wouldn't go to Mulhouse on the way from Gva to Calais.
We will be at the eurotunnel terminal late afternoon Thursday - hope it's not too chaotic.
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pam w, From southern NL I go through Trier - roughly Mulhouse/Basel then you know... "east".  It's probably time I investedin a satnav because there must be limits on how many times you can go the wrong way around Lake Lucerne...
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FAQ
