 Poster: A snowHead
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In the ski acres or kms? thread there's an interesting debate about the relative size of different resorts. But why do we need big resorts anyway? I often prefer to go down familiar pistes rather than explore more widely.
My relationship with an individual piste goes like this:
Trips 1-2: Learn the piste. Proceed with caution, looking for hidden hazards, blind spots and direction markers. Not much fun, really.
Trips 3-5: Speed up. Learn the best route. Find the best bumps, the best snow, and where it's safe to really let rip. Great fun.
Trips 6-10: Really go for it. The best part of the learning cycle.
Trips 11+: Boredom sets in. Time to find somewhere different to ski.
Suppose I want to go down each of my favourite pistes 10 times, and I manage 20 runs a day. That means I only need 12 different pistes of the right grade to keep me happy for a week.
So why do we need megaresorts? Am I unusual in preferring familiar runs to new ones?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not at all. Some of the most fun I;ve had has been finding a great run and goin up and down it several times.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I love getting to know a good piste too, but then again some of the most fun I've had is skiing for miles and miles doing a circuit, like in the Portes du Soleil, or Saalbach/Hinterglemm.
It's not just about getting bored with skiing the same run 10 times or more. Queuing for and riding the same lift over and over again gets somewhat tedious. Now if there's a great mountain restaurant/bar tucked away on this piste it might be different 
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I like knowing a piste well, although given that there are almost infinte number of lines down a run and an almost infinite number of snow conditions I don't really think of it as doing the same thing time after time.
I also like getting to know an individual resort well (one of the reasons I'm happy to have an apartment in one resort rather than trying a new place each trip). It's good to know how to avoid the crowded pistes and lift bottlenecks, good to know where the little stashes of powder are kept long after the rest of the resort is skied out, good to know the restaurants (and restauranteurs), finding and sticking with good instructors, feeling like you are a small part of that community rather than just passing through, etc, etc.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've had a lot of fun repeatedly skiing the Borselliers Red on the Champagny side of La Plagne. When it's early morning, corduroy groomed, empty, sun shining, no queue for the 6 man fast lift back up, I've just blasted down nonstop and the lift gives just enough recovery time on the way back up. Repeat ad leg burn. Good restaurants at top and bottom when exhaustion / dehydration kicks in.
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RachelQ, Im with you on the Portes du soliel i have been there many times and now know all of the runs from morzine via avoriaz to pre la jou (spelling?), i think knowing a large circuit which can take most of the day can be just as fun. although i enjoy repeating shorter runs & getting to know them especially when there are jumps & bumps to play with.
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In Zermatt I've done the Furgg to Furi black run about four times on the trot at the beginning of the day when it was almost totally empty, and fresh corduroy having just been groomed, and that was great, if a bit knackering.
Generally though, two runs down any run are enough for me on any trip.
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I guess I only get bored after 10 trips if it all happens over a couple of days with not much variation in snow conditions. And although I've never done it myself, I can certainly see Rob's point about repeatedly returning to one resort - I often get the feeling that the locals are having more fun than me because they know where the fun's to be had. In the USA (you're allowed to talk to people on chair lifts there) I often ask local skiers about runs and conditions, and their advice is almost always worth listening to.
But I guess I've always felt a little dull and unadventurous for preferring runs that I know well. It's comforting to know that I'm not alone in my shameful behaviour.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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RachelQ has a point, but my most memorable skiing days have been in Serre Chevalier - nice snow inthe Cucumelle bowl, we just kept riding up the same chairlift and down the same slope, and in Norquay, same thing - but in both cases we had great conditions and no queues
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Gregory can just do the same run over and over and over - I remember running into him at the bottom lift station and him saying, "Dad, I've done this over 17 times"... although that was at Milton Keynes 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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nbt, aah, the pleasures of the Cucumelle, they're re-routing the bottom section for next season tht should improve the bottleneck. Now if you fancy skiing it again..........there's a nice apartment at the bottom of the pistes ....... 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar.org.uk, Absolutely, exactly how I see it.
Even though I've only done my first season I have found the change in conditions and skiing different 'lines' has still kept the magic for me and my favourites are still 'Tulipe' and Mont Chery Nord in Les Gets. One day I may even get to ski them properly whatever that means ...
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RachelQ,
I know what you mean about the lifts - one of my favourite runs anywhere is in the Genevris area of Sauze D'Oulx. It's a great run but, as it is right at the end of the entire circuit, most people don't go there or even know about it. The unfortunate side is that it is served by twin ancient drag lifts (Chardonney 1 & 2) which are not particularty fast and it is often closed for training use.
Still, spent a good couple of hours there one day last season just going up and down until the lifts shut.
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You know it makes sense.
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I do like the exploration and isolation aspect as well - interesting to ski somehere unusual and feel youre almost lost
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Nearly all day on a blue in Zell am Zee. Served by a fast detachable 4 man quad and it was the last day of the holiday and the kids had no ski school. Not only was the slope perfect for the kids ability (first week on skis) but so was the lift. Easy on and easy off. Had a fantastic day but would have been bored after a couple of hours if kids werent there. By the end of the day we knew every inch of the piste and their skiing had really advanced.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Righton Jonny,
Its great getting to really know a good run and really lets the skis flow. travelling around a big resort can resemble commuting and you can find that at the end of a long day you haven't really done any memorable runs.
A good run in the right conditions deserves lots of laps.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If it is interesting enough I can do it again but I am in a jaded mode with skiing so we tend to push ourselves to more and more 'interesting' routes. And in general I don't see the attraction on some places just by the amount of pistes they may have. I can spend all day on one or two routes which is what I prefer to do.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar.org.uk, you've summed up my attitude quite well. Obviously a little exploration now and again is quite good too!
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laundryman, I agree. I've often spent a whole day in St. Anton just doing the runs coming down from the top of Schindler down to Happy Valley, or to the Ulmer Huette. There are so many variants there that you never get bored. Likewise you can spend the best part of a day just skiing on the the Albona without crossing your tracks. It's only when you really get to know a resort that you know where to go for the good bits!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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One trip I have promised myself is to a Ski resort, with pistes I know well, to see them in the Summer to better understand the terrain (and perhaps to try and understand the folk that claim our sport is damaging the mountains)
A resort I would like to see is Tignes if nothing else but to work out where all the Golf course is and how big the lake is! Also Verbier for the Golf course?
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| Quote: |
Am I unusual in preferring familiar runs to new ones
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No, but familiarity breeds contempt at a different rate depending on the individual.
While I don't mind coming onto a nice familiar run every so often and I'd happily join you for a few trips down the same run on any given piste, I'd be sooooo bored after, say the first 3 times (that's descents I mean, not holidays), that I probably would've buggered off before lunchtime to hunt out new challenges. But that's life - some people like repeated familiarity, some people find it drives them round the bend.
And that's why I value mega-resorts, while other people might not.
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boredsurfin, Tignes in summer is even uglier than it is in Winter, it's a real moon-scape and the lake is big.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 2-06-05 18:14; edited 1 time in total
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David@traxvax, It is quite an acheivement to make somewhere ugly when its covered in snow, hadnt even considered what it must look like in the summer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As Swiss Toni once said "Skiing a great piste is like making love to a beautiful woman..." ok I think I'd better stop there  .
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davidof,
I think theres a whole section on that subject over at Natives 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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To go back to the orginal question - 'How many times down a piste ?' - surely depends on what off-piste the piste provides access too ? If it don't access any good powder, then y ski on it at all ?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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davidof, Did Swiss Toni then also say "Show me a great piste and I'll show you a man who is tired of skiing it..."?
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Peter S, I completely agree. We'll leave it for slikedges and crew to decide what lots of laps do for the piste.
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You know it makes sense.
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comprex, don't you prefer first tracks to a worn out piste everyone can and has had a go at?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Don't know what it is like as I change resort everyday and can hardy ski the same slope twice. To be able to ski a new surrounding is an enjoyable experience to me because it is a challenge in itself. I will have no prior knowledge of the terrain and have to take wahtever condition thrown at me.
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Poster: A snowHead
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slikedges, true fresh tracks are full of obstacles and hazards that don't allow one to develop a consistent rhythm. Anxieties and uncertainties also get in the way. A well-used piste with a night's rest is usually optimal for my taste, although I admit to very fresh tracks that were afterwards very much my own and sweeter therefor.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I am afraid of inserting this large chart of my skiing in Planai (Schladming).
You see we did the same slope many times, and had one hour in the restaurant between 11 and 12.
Data on the right: lift used 21 times, skied 42 km (26 miles), distance by lift 26.8 km and total elevation was 8063 meter.
I always wanted to know how much other people ski (km/miles) on an avarage day.
Or - as I heard in Austria - skiing is just the unavoidable activity to get from one Hutte (mountain restaurant) to another.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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kerekip, the part I find interesting there is the distance skied/distance by lift ratio.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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kerekip,
It is a good way of topping up the skiing distance. 42km or 26 miles is a lot of skiing I think for a day and I notice you didn't bother with a rest for a non-stop 4-hour sesseion in the afternoon. I suppose these could be an average day activities. There are some 9 different elevations from which you started the lift so there must be about 9 chairlifts in the same slope then. Looking at the ski map of Amade I would think your slope is more like one side of the valley in Schladming.
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I found that in resorts such as Sestriere and Sauze D'Oulx in Italy the runs tended to be very wide. This meant that I could ski the same "run" 3 or 4 times but it felt like I was on a different run each time. I was able to ski the left hand side, centre and the right hand side each time and have totally different experiences each time.
However, in Alpe D'huez the runs were much narrower and I would have got a wee bit bored hammering the same piste 3 or 4 times back to back.
So in answer to the original question I suppose it depends on the limitations on the resort. Whether mega-resort or smallish alpine resort the runs must be taken in individual merit.
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Back to original question - I favour "mega"resorts. I like the PDS and the fact that almost invariably I can find something I really want to do no matter the conditions.
The flipside being that if I had great/good conditions I could spend my life yo-yoing somewhere like Argentiere. Likewise, I just can't seem to get bored with the top section of "Renard" in Chatel. Just such a very fine gradient and almost invariably well formed bumps. Ahhh, I'm going all misty eyed.
However, having had a weekend in east coast ice and lumps on Mount Snow, VT - well, that was quite enough for me. POInt being there that it's not huge, the runs aren't long, they're not particularly entertaining and withe conditions I'd have been well bored if I'd been there any longer.
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What an interesting thread! I notice that most of the posters who agree they like (or don't mind) ski-ing the same run repeatedly tend to be the more experienced Snowheads. The better you ski the more often you can ski the same run without getting bored - you can change the run by changing how you ski it - you're not dependent on ski-ing only one type of turn or one type of line etc.
ps: I spend an awful lot of the winter on one green run, and yes, I do get a bit bored of it, but at 2 x per hour in a lesson and maybe 4 hours per day (on that one run), that's 8 decents per day x 7 days per week x 16 weeks + of the season ................ 
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