 Poster: A snowHead
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People might remember we got our flight back from Lyons cancelled while we were in France by text on the Tuesday before we were due to fly back.
I wrote a very conciliatory letter to BA asking for the taxi fare from Manchester (where we ended up) to our cars back in Brum. Had a reply today saying they could not refund our taxi fare.
Now I believe that there is some EU legislation covering cancelled flights and, while I realise it is hard to get these fly-by-night shady British companies to obey EU rules, I wonder if anybody has any experience of getting the theoretical compensation out of the sods?
Any suggestions on what to do next?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Chris Bish, don't you realise you were meant to walk 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sorry can't provide any advice as never been in this sort of situation. I'm just plain amazed how badly some of the companies think they can treat people once they have your money.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Write back asking them to reconsider otherwise you'll be left with no choice but to pursue through the small claims process at https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/. At worst it will cost your another £25 and a stamp.
See if anything in this helps: http://money.guardian.co.uk/travel/story/0,,1683869,00.html
| Quote: |
| f your flight is cancelled, the airline must give you a refund of your ticket and a flight home if relevant, plus meals and hotel accommodation if required. If there is a long delay, above, the airline must offer food and drinks plus a hotel room, if relevant. If there is a delay of five hours or more, the airline must offer to refund your ticket and provide free transport home. |
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi Chris
Write a very stern but diplomatic complaint and show all the costs and hassles you encountered. I had an Air France outward Fri flight to Sofia pulled the day before i was due to fly from Southampton. I then had to pay a taxi fare to Heathrow for a Sat Flight that AF transfered me to. Then Saturdays flight was pulled. This was driving me mad. I kept all the reciepts etc. Although Air France did not admit to all the problems even thought the errors were all theirs i did recieve a good payoff, nearly paid for the holiday.
Don't get fobbed off, get reciepts for everything and keep trying.
Good luck
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Several years ago, because of a BA strike I ended up at LHR instead of LGW after a business trip, necessitating a cab round to LGW to catch a flight for a private trip. BA coughed up for the cab fare, so in your situation, they should do the dame the same thing. Good luck.
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Virgin once failed to provide their Upper Class limo to pick me up from midtown Manhattan. I gave them to the last possible moment, then hailed a yellow cab, but they only take cash which I didn't have not time to get. So I hired a stretched lime for $100, which Virgin refunded no questions asked when I arrived at Newark airport with 0.1 seconds to spare.
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laundryman, I bet paying for the stretched lime left a bitter taste 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just come up with stage 1 of the plan. They did not return my receipts with their "sod-off" letter, so first move is to request their return so I can take the matter further. I bet they have lost them!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Chris Bish, unbelievable.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Chris Bish, I'm surprised. I've always found BA very helpful and accommodating. (We've had maybe 4 non-flights in the last 6 years...)
Including one instance where the outbound from London City went tech. Rather than putting us up in a hotel at our choice we got a taxi home and a taxi arranged to Heathrow 1st thing. The Heathrow taxi didn't arrive so we had to hail one. Letter with receipt was answered with a cheque. No issue.
Was it BA main airline or BA Connect (not BA at all, just the livery) that you were flying with?
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David Murdoch, I may be wrong but IIRC BA connect is a wholly-owned subsidiary of BA was BA citiexpress,, before that Brymon before purchase by BA and integrated with the old BA regional. Think BA plans to take a 15% share in FlyBe on completion ( that may of course also be wrong after competition review).
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You know it makes sense.
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It was a BA connect flight, but booked through the BA website and the aircraft had BA written on it.
I have evry reason to believe I was flying BA! (Or would have liked to be.)
Admittely we were delivered by BA to Manchester, but that still left us with cars at Birmingham. They seemed to think same country was good enough. I wouldn't go to Canada with them would you?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously this is different circumstances, as it was a charter flight that was diverted, but they provided a coach to get my parents from Manchester back to Newcastle.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Helen Beaumont, Thanks for that. Looking at the BBC site I guess they wil argue they gave us an alternative flight back to our destination. I will try to argue this bit.
(from the EU site)
3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served by several airports, an operating air carrier offers a passenger a flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking was made, the operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring the passenger from that alternative airport either to that for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination agreed with the passenger.
(Don't really care too much about the £80. It is becoming a game!)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If all else fails you could always try Watchdog or the consumer rant lines in the Sunday Times and Guardian. Hope your successful with your claim.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Chris Bish wrote: |
Admittely we were delivered by BA to Manchester, but that still left us with cars at Birmingham. They seemed to think same country was good enough. I wouldn't go to Canada with them would you?
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We had a problem with FlyBE on return from Courchevel in February (10th). First of all the flight was delayed by 5 hours, then cancelled because the aircraft had a fault. We were told we could go to either Exeter or Southampton. We offered to stay (at our own expense) in Chambery that night and go back the next day to Birmingham. This is because I have medical treatment that has to be done at a certain time of day. However they refused, saying if we did that, we'd have to pay for the flight to Birmingham (even though there were spaces on it).
So, we took the flight to Exeter which was offered. However there was no food on the flight, which was itself delayed by 3 hours. Exeter airport was "closed" when we arrived, and we were expected to get on a bus straight to Birmingham. This would have arrived after midnight, leaving us to find a taxi back home. We had no food, and no prospect of getting any, and my medication was overdue.
So, we elected to stay in Exeter overnight and travel back up by train the following morning. The FlyBE web site Terms and Conditions are clear that it will provide an "acceptable alternative flight", and what they provided for us was not acceptable, because of my need to take medication (shouldn't be an issue - flight time from France is only an hour and a bit, and it shouldn't take more than 12 hours to get home), and the lack of food on their flight to Exeter (which might have persuaded me to get on the bus to Birmingham). Plus they DID have an acceptable flight availble, but we weren't offered places on it.
We're trying to get something towards this additional cost (£195 for the 2 of us), but I'm not hopeful. I think they should at least stump up something.
Sigh!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Chris Bish, I agree, it is the principle of the thing, not the cost, and they did not get you to your final destination, which was Birmingham.
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I find these stories of being flown abroad by airlines and then effectively 'dumped' there quite surprising and disturbing. I also am VERY surprised that they seem to take little or no responsibility for compensating the passengers for their incovenience and of course additional costs.
I suppose I naively thought that if an airline let you down, they'd 'make it right' somehow with a payment and SUITABLE alternative arrangements. If this is not the case then there would seem to be a market for some enterprising insurance company to add 'cancelled/delayed flight cover' to their travel policies (for which I suspect the premium would cost very little as the cases do seem relatively rare) to give peace of mind to the weary traveller.
If this were available either as a dedicated policy or an 'add-on' what do you guys think it would be worth? What would you be willing to pay for such cover?
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Chris Bish, just a thought, have you checked you insurance doesn't already cover you. YOu'll need those receipts back though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I imagine all these shenanigans are down to the struggle to have the lowest headline fares. Anyway, Birmingham is not Manchester, so take them to the cleaners!
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This appears to be the definitive eu regulation on the subject, but I can't easily find the legislation that passed the regulation into UK law. Article 5 is the important part, but I guess that BA's defence will rest on clause 5.3 by claiming that the cancellation was due to "extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken."
It's worth pursuing this matter, as the airlines dislike the regulation and, in my experience, tell blatent lies in order to evade their responsibilities under it. I was bumped off a KLM flight (overbooking) about a year ago, and, both in the airport and when I first complained, I was told that I had no right to redress. A second letter from me citing the relevant paragraphs of Regulation 261/2004 led to an immediate cheque, albeit with no covering letter, explanation or apology.
In general, if you want to avoid delays or cancellations, you need to avoid using economy class with the so-called full service airlines. In particular, avoid Heathrow and Gatwick. Surprisingly, and despite their cavalier attitude to customer service, airlines like Ryanair have much lower rates of delay and cancellation than the industry average. This is largely because they use quieter airports, but one additional benefit is that you know that Ryanair will never bump you off your flight to accommodate a Platinum club member who turns up 15 minutes before your flight is due to leave (I'm 99% certain that's what KLM did to me).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hiya Chris,
I agree with Johnny. Its a couple of years ago now but we arrived at the aiport for a flight back to Manchester, only to be told that it was an overbooking and as we were within the last few to arrive we had been put on a flight to Birmingham, off went I to explain in no certain terms what they could do with thier flight, only to be told that we were to be given a £100 each as compensation and a paid for taxi back from Birmingham to Manchester.
I feel that they originally try it on to see if they can get away with things but if you challenge its a totally different thing!
Good luck. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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lynne melia, Thanks everyone for support on this. Since I started this thread, lots of other people have been hit even harder than we were. We only lost an hour or so's skiing (and the chance to meet up with the Spydercrew and the Axes). Since then, people have been denied snow access at all by these clowns.
It is getting to be a bit of a crusade now. How can a reputable (sic) company do this and think it is acceptable. In this day and age!
Just been lecturing my class this morning on money and why the pound is respected and valued all over the world. It is all to do with trust and reliabilty you see. Didn't BA once have those things? Are they not important to them any more?
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You know it makes sense.
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Didn't get enough on-snow time with fellow snowHeads. Not easy to arrange was it!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Chris Bish, At least we all managed a bit of 'in-bar time' - which is not a bad 'second' 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Chris Bish, Take note of what lynne melia did. It's far easier to negociate with a person face to face and demand what you believe is fair, than to have to write letters to faceless "department" to ask for it afterwards.
The closer you're to the take-off time of the "alternate" flight, the more insistant you should be. And don't ASK, demand it be done, right away, before you walk off to the plane.
The reason being, there're obviously empty seats on that alternative flight and no one is going to fill it before it takes off in the next 10 min. So they want YOU on it, so they won't have to accomondate you on another, perhaps busier, flight later. There's a lot more power you have over them during that small time window. A few quid of taxi fair is small change to an unfill seat (or an unavilable one on the later flight).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Chris Bish wrote: |
| why the pound is respected and valued all over the world. |
I'd be (genuinely) interested to read the abbreviated version.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Chris Bish,
to get back to your original point about EU legislation, this was my experience (which though not to do with skiing on this occasion might tally with yours and if so you would be entitled to more compensation than the £80 for taxi):
Flight with Easyjet to Barcelona cancelled on the Tuesday before due to fly on the Saturday from Luton due to "operational reasons". Offered alternative flights or refunds but no flight going on the same day from Luton. Ended up going from Stansted (having already paid £25 for parking at Luton) about 7 hours earlier than planned.
Bit of to-ing and fro-ing with Easyjet and quoting of EU regulations, but ended up getting compensation of £169 per person (there were five of us, and we had paid about £80 per return flight). This is a set amount regardless of what you paid for the flight, and applies to all airlines in Europe. Decided to be magnanimous and not pursue them for the £25 parking, being as we more or less had a free holiday!
Basically I think compensation hinges on:
- why the flight was cancelled ("operational reasons" isn't a good enough excuse, and nor should it be as it generally means they have pulled a half-empty flight, but if they quote safety reasons or Act of God they will probably be able to wriggle out of it)
- how long from the original departure time were the offered alternative flights
- how much notice of cancellation you were given.
If you think you want to pursue this, let me know and I'll try and look out the correspondence I sent to Easyjet.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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PamG, Thanks for that. "Operational Reasons" was exactly what we were quoted on the phone. I have letters on their way at present to various bits of BA including their Manager Europe, and I believe from my reading of the EU regs that the burden of proof is on them regarding reasons for cancellation.
I only asked for our genuine out of pocket expenses in the first place, but having been turned down, might well be demanding more now. The alternative flight we got from BA was only about 10 minutes after the cancelled flight, but just to the wrong airport. It was getting the cars back that was our eventual delay.
The to-ing and fro-ing has only just begun! I'll keep everyone informed, assuming you are all still interested...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Chris Bish,
oh yes. v interested.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
"Operational Reasons" was exactly what we were quoted on the phone.
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The operational reasons would have been that they had no staff to man the plane. I doubt if they can use that, the regs state:
| Quote: |
| (The airline is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the cancellation was caused by "extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken". Such extraordinary circumstances might occur "in cases of political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affect the operation of an operating air carrier".) |
and
| Quote: |
| Re-routing to your final destination as soon as possible or, if you agree, at a later date. (If the airline flies you to another airport in your destination city then they must pay for the transfer to the airport you were booked for or to another close-by point of your choice) |
All the above information is from the Air Transport Users Council (part of the CAA). See sections on Travel Advice and Complaints
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Sage, More useful ammo, Thanks.
I am resisting sarcasm, but (from your first quote) was not aware of any revolutions in either France or UK that week (not been in one personally since 1997, and that didn't affect the Tupolev 154!) ( Can't recall one in France since 1789) Weather seemed normal for the time of year and even if Embraers can't fly in the rain, it wasn't going to rain for 4 days was it? Flight safety shortcomings seems unlikely, but I would love to publish details if there were any and strikes were not reported in Europe, as I recall.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Update. had a bland letter from BA customer Services on Saturday. It just said "I understand you are claiming under the EU regs and will be in touch shortly.
Definitely not a sod-off this time then. Do you think I am winning?
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Chris Bish,
Sounds like the cheque will be in the post soon.
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FAQ
