 Poster: A snowHead
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kristof, The popular Scott, Missions and Punishers. if you want something meatier the Crusade and Neo. The Crusader is a bit wider the neo a bit narrower.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Aaaahhhh, no not another Scott fan!!!!  Buy them and you might aswell get the Sally's again!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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the_doc, any recommendations for other good ones to try then? Not really convinced on the Scott's myself. Spent most of my time on Libery Hazmat's until they went walkies so looking for another all-mountain twin. I had them in 164 which is fine on-piste but crap for powder as they're too short for me. My powder skis are k2 seth's in 179cm mounted with barons. I'm debating whether to pick something up on recommendation this summer while they are cheap or wait until next season to demo. I've got to wait a while to demo any skis as I've just had my ACL welded back together. Got to start planning for next season though 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Inverted8 wrote: |
| My original gripe was not so much S & R , but the attitude of certain members of staff there. |
Yes but you haven't actually told us which S&R!!!
Namely, WAS IT BRISTOL???
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| Anyway seems that everything has turned out satisfactory. I still would have prefered my skis to not have had the defect in the first place. |
Glad you ikt it sorted out but how about telling people where it was and which staff members gave you the problem, then others can avoid the same problems!
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kristof, I did like the Hazmats, but reckon the Nordica Enforcers and Black Crow Navis just pipped them. Get the 177s if you can track them down.
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Scarpa, cheers mate, I'll stick them on the list to test too. I think I'm gonna try a few pairs before I buy. One thing about the Hazmat's, the quality was bomber. They had great bases that never showed any hits from rocks / stones. I expected the bamboo side wall's to be destroyed but they only had a few slight nicks and one or two to the topsheet.
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kristof, The Navis was one tough ski... but a touch heavy for a light skier such as myself. I bought the Enforcers myself (last years twin tip). Christ... that ski can turn quick in the bumps but it floats superbly in the powder and make me smile on pistes too. If I had stronger legs the Navis may have taken the crown.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yeah defo another shout out for the Black Crows, Navis was awesome and on the stiff side, Icelantic Pilgrim and Nomad gets my vote also...might want to try out a certain other ski co aswell (see below!)
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the_doc, i'll add them to the list, I might see if I can borrow a certain Dom B's One's that he's got on test.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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kristof, Line Prophet 90s/100s as a solid AM twin.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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the_doc, I'm 73kg and found the Navis ok as long as I pressured it hard. Once I got tired it wasn't too easy to ski.
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| Inverted8 wrote: |
Guys.
RESULT!
I got the same offer as pauly69 - a full store credit or refund (up to original full purchase price).
Any suggestions on what to do? Do I wait till next season or buy this seasons at discount? Considering that I may not go skiing again till next season.
My original gripe was not so much S & R , but the attitude of certain members of staff there. Anyway seems that everything has turned out satisfactory. I still would have prefered my skis to not have had the defect in the first place. |
missed this as been away skiing
as i said salomon are pretty good with warranties
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You know it makes sense.
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Black Diamond are another company who are very good with warranties, IMV..and I know a few others who would say the same
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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JT, Black Diamond were very good at replacing a buckle I could not buy as a normal spare on my backpack.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I give up! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Inverted8 wrote:
My original gripe was not so much S & R , but the attitude of certain members of staff there.
Yes but you haven't actually told us which S&R!!!
Namely, WAS IT BRISTOL???
Quote:
Anyway seems that everything has turned out satisfactory. I still would have prefered my skis to not have had the defect in the first place.
Glad you ikt it sorted out but how about telling people where it was and which staff members gave you the problem, then others can avoid the same problems!
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Rather than have a witch hunt on a member of staff who had a bad day i suggest you leave it to your personal experience in store if you choose to shop there!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Tips of my Lords delaminated after 2 days.
Still fightting with Salomon - or rather Amer sports who seem to own Salomon in this country.
BOught from Nevisport - not overly helpful - not likely to wadte shoe leather entering their stores again either!
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peterredmtd, welcome to snowHeads.
Amer is the parent company that owns both Atomic & Salomon. Good luck.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| alpinequeen wrote: |
| Rather than have a witch hunt on a member of staff who had a bad day i suggest you leave it to your personal experience in store if you choose to shop there! |
WTF?
Given the number of times you name drop S+R in your posts it wouldn't be unreasonable to think you had some kind of interest in said store but far be it for me to suggest such a thing! Obviously you've had so many good experiences it's led you to spend something like 10% of your posts mentioning them, I've had the opposite experience so spend waaaaaay less than 0.1% of mine commenting on that (draw your own conclusions people who are unbiased on the matter) so don't hang me - it's called customer comment, whether it is good and bad!
For the record, and for those with no axe to grind, I've had the same experience with the same person a number of times in that store over a period of a couple of years and I now choose to go elsewhere as a result of his 'service'.
You may have an interest in attempting to neutralise negative S+R comment, either as an *unbelievably* loyal customer or as an employee, but this sort of comment is absolutely the wrong way to do it!
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Well the skis are off back to Salomon GB (Amersport) for the second time. On closer inspection one ski has 2 delaminations on tip and one on the tail. The other ski is fine.
Absolutely no help from Nevisport - I had approached them in June and they are still waiting to talk to their Salomon rep -- Shop manager may be seeing him in late September!!! Unbelievable.
Keep you posted
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peterredmtd, approach one of their competitors, make it clear why you're approaching them and suggest a deal for another set. They might agree, if so then get a full refund from the original store and spend it in the competitors shop instead.
When you've done this, post the information somewhere - I don't know, like a popular internet forum - and in future others might be less likely to shop there.
The store might then get the message that a 3-4 month wait is unacceptable.
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Hmm
interesting - my Salomon Lord's also suffered from delamination. Happened in April in Davos after a long weekend, (and 3rd week of skiing) only noticed when packing them away to travel home, certainly no obvious impact damage (to ski's or rider!).
Will have to dig out receipt and take 'em back to Ellis Brigham, as they were only purchased in January.
Fingers crossed I get the same satisfactory conclusion.
H.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I know this is a thread revival but what's the problem with Salomon authorising immediate dealer replacement for any delams brought in - possibly with a buffer stock given to dealers for such a purpose? It does seem to be a wide issue - although I guess the popularity of the ski may skew results somewhat. For a brand making a comeback in the credible freeride ski market it seems stupid to throw away the goodwill due to a crappy year of manufacture. Of course some people may abuse the system but its not that hard for a dealer to tell the difference between a delam and where a chancer has run his car over his skis at the end of the season in order to try to get a new pair.
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fatbob, I'm not seeing the problem with salomon here, what i am seeing is people demanding replacements without the ski being inspected, when we get a return back for inspection under warranty the retailer is given a response within 7 days of us receiving the goods, where possible the decision is made the day we get the product in our workshop, I know that salomon operate the same policy, so if a store is taking months to send the product back it is only the store to blame..(and to be fair i have only read about one store in this thread who has taken a long time to send skis back)
as for delam on lords, i have just spoken to salomon service centre regarding something else and i asked the question about prevelence of this, the response didn't suprise me at all, they have had a few pairs delam, but a number of people claiming for delam when there was definate impact at the area of damage.
before someone jumps in and says that these freeride skis should withstand impact..., IMO they do withstand a lot, but if you stack it and smack the ski into something then don't expect it to be in showroom condition any more...you won't get a warranty replacement for your car when you drive it into a wall
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I can actually remember hammering a rock with Pilots a few years back and the ski came off far far better than I did...but I recall a Mission user on his 3rd pair last year and he was moaning about having to get them replaced by a shop in VD when he lived near La Plagne. The shop there seemed to take the complaint at face value as he seemed to make a call, was told to return them and he lost a morning exchanging skis...
He might have been considered local, FWIW..
I thought being on a third pr of skis within a season was bad but it seems that the shop looked after him. I don't know whether he still has that brand....
I don't know how the French managed this...when the Uk appears not to be able to.
I do not really have an opinion one way or another re what constiutes fair use and abuse and agree you would need to inspect them for this.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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CEM, No argument from me - hard use is not the same as a spontaneous delam although it seems to me there is a grey area with say a mild rock hit where another ski might have survived it but a model with a propensity to delam doesn't - is there a contributory factor of the design/material defect? I guess my anology is nudging a parking bollard with your car - you expect a scratched bumper but would be a bit upset if your whole crumple zone folded.
I've come across lazy retailers before who really aren't interested in you the minute you've walked out of the shop and would rather fob you off then send things back for repair/warranty. I'd have hoped that specialists would care a bit more. I guess Salomon are victims of their own success in terms of volume of product shifted to some extent.
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fatbob, pretty much, i don't think the lord is particularily seceptable to delam, certainly no more so than any other ski, but as you say when you have a large number of units out there then the failure rate may be perceived as higher, i know what the return rate for delam is for atomic and it is not high at all....and being as the salomons and the atomics are made in the same factory
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You know it makes sense.
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CEM, doesn't follow that the same quality standards area applied to each line. How come you are involved in the inspection of returned skis, btw?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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achilles,
the same standards are applied to each product on the production... i handle returns/warranties and spares for Atomic (part of Amer sports) basically it is not a full time job, possibly requires an hour or 2 a week, and would mean having a rep off the road, so i handle it from here
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Poster: A snowHead
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CEM, thanks for the info.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Cem,
without wishing to disagree, the argument that '2 products down same line = same quality' is not very robust.
Whilst they _could_ be to the same quality, quality is a consequence of many stages, from design through assembly via various QA steps.
(anyone who's compared, e.g. a lotus elise to a VX220 will understand that, but I digress).
Even assuming the production method and the QA steps are the same, and applied equally rigorously (anybody who shoots will understand that not all bullets/cartridges are the same, even if they've gone down the same line - the QA process can make a huge difference), one factor that will surely impact final quality is the design.
The Lords seem to have a particular 'lip' on the edge of the top sheet, that is (presumably) stuck down somehow - I think that design is particularly susceptible to impact/vibration/stuffing the skis tail first into the snow damage, which might cause the topsheet to start separating; other ski's topsheets join in a different manner. Come to think of it, there's a big difference between 'twin tip' and traditional skis... and starting to think it's not just stuffing the tails into the snow, but the metal boxes on gondolas and the like... and the more I think about it, I reckon that the tail delam is largely due to the fact that the tail and tip construction are identical, whereas normal single-tip skis usually have a flat/robust tail, and that this 'tip like' construction is simply not designed to put up with the 'tail like' treatment it gets.
A discussion best suited over a vin chaud, me thinks.... In the meantime, my Lord's have gone back through EB to Salomon, and I'll see what happens.
fingers crossed,
h.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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hamilton, as i said in an earlier post, Salomon have not had had a major problem with the lord in terms of delamination.... most of the skis that have been returned have suffered impact damage, if your skis have genuine delam then i am sure salomon will sort them out, if it is impact then just like if you drive the car into the wall not a lot that can be done
BTW having been to the said factory i know the QA proceedures
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If skis delam' 99.9% of the time the manufacturer will take 'em back as it's been a manufacturing problem, ie. some of Fischers RX range (particularly the 6 and  had this problem three seasons ago and Scott's mission season before last (coincedence as both used same (too thick) top sheet and were made in same Fischer factory? Who knows?) Anyway's it's no skin off S&R's or EB's (or whoever bought from) nose if this happens, drop 'em by they (should) take a photo, forward this onto the rep and then you'll get a decision. Like the comment earlier regarding S&R saying they were gonna fix a delam' on a few week old pair of skis!!! Classic!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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not sure how many times i have to defend retailers but if the ski is delamed it will generally get replaced if there is impact it won't... if the said ski which was going to be replaired had impact damage then that is the option...
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Take it easy CEM, I never mentioned impact damage, you know what they about asumption being the mother of all f@*k-ups! I was trying to clarify for the guy with the Lords from the standpoint of delamination occuring (note i.ve not mentioned impact damage or unreasonable wear and tear in my above post) and therefore my response is clear. If you think fixing a seriously delaminated ski (ie. top sheet peeling back) due to a manufacturing problem is either correct or possible then you're a fool. I suggest you READ post's before getting annoyed!
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millsy13, please do not come on here and say read posts before posting ... you have what 3 posts and you become an instant expert.....your comment was about a S&R saying they would glue a delam... if that delam was caused by impact then that is all they can do!!
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First, i joined this forum to READ what other people say, offer advice to people if i've had similar experiences, exchange views and have conversation regarding skiing. Second, I reiterate, you've still not got it READ the earlier post. Third, you seem to believe a correlation exists between knowledge and how many posts you've made. Big mistake. How does that work? You don't know me and i don't know you, so why are you creating a pecking order? You sound like a surfer at a local break; tell me you're not the kind to get aggressive over freshies are you. Relax, and once again don't assume.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Now that there's been a bit of time out, and we've all calmed down....
Salomon replaced my skis under warranty. Yay!.
The only slight downside is that they sent back a pair of 177's, and I had 169's.
More unfortunately, the outer packaging said 169... as did (apparently) the barcode....
wasn't until i picked the skis up and saw the big 177 in between the bindings that I noticed the discrepancy... I guess the binding fitter would not necessarily have checked the length, even tho' it was on my paperwork and (presumably) part of the DIN calculation....
not quite sure who wasn't paying attention, but hopefully I'll get the 2nd pair, the right size, in a few days.
The 'new season' skis look pretty cool (from the 10seconds I had with them!) - loving that 'see thro' the base layer' look.
in the meantime, pax to all...
h
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hamilton, You'll float better in powde . What size are you (if you dont mind me asking  )
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FAQ
