 Poster: A snowHead
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I had a pair of Fischer Soma Vacuum Pro 130s fitted by Ski Bartlett on Friday morning; took them straight to the airport and have just spent three days skiing on them.
There's already been various debates here about this process on this thread and this thread, so I'm not going to repeat that stuff. I just thought I'd explain why I bought them and what I think of them three days in.
For those of you who haven't skied with me I'm a BASI L2 and a ISIA (BASI L3) wannabe. That means that I can (properly) carve down a red run and maintain a constant speed and confidently ski a 40 degree off-piste pitch with (usually) a bit of style. I'm by no means the best skier on the hill and there are people on this forum who are (much, much) better. But I'm up there.
Why I bought them.
I have Salomon X2 race boots fitted for me by LARGEZOOKEEPER in Chamonix. These are proper, no compromise "plug" racing boots. Lovely liner and beautifully progressive flex. But they're built for all-out performance and were designed to be put on and worn for one run (race) and taken off. They weren't designed to be worn all day, so are (effing) cold (I've had the start of frost nip on one too many occasions) and have never been what anyone would reasonably call "comfortable". It's not that they're painful, it's just that precision comes at the cost of all day comfort.
So, in summary, they really are great race boots. But I don't race all day every day and have reached the point where comfort and warmth is worth compromising on some performance.
I didn't set out to buy some more race boots and (after the customary trip to Snow & Rock / Ellis Brigham) I bought some Salomon X3 110 CS boots on the basis that, of the non-race boots available, they were by far the best fit.
But, after just two outings in the fridge, I knew that they weren't going to cut it for me. So my options were to put in some ZipFits or foam the boots to give more precision (another £200+), or admit that I'd made a mistake, sell the X3s (appearing here shortly - size 27.5 if of interest to anyone) and buy something else. I took the view that the Fischers might be worth a go.
I'm not going to go over the fitting process, except to say that:
- the view in Bartlett's was to stretch, rather than compress.
- getting the stance width right on the machine took some time and my input.
To quote SMALLZOOKEEPER...
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| I can expect alot of these boots sold early will get great reviews, people getting all bold and excited about being the first, spending a load of cash etc. I think it's unavoidable, people really want it to work, placebo/emperors new clothes effect? I don't think at this point of the winter and people having spent 700 euros anybody is going to complain. |
So, here's the "great review" 
Short version...
Frankly, they're fantastic. Buy some (if the MO above is you and you're an experienced boot buyer). (If you need to ask "are these boots for me" then the answer is no.)
Longer version...
They are very precise.
The V stance and fitting process has significantly helped my alignment issues.
I managed to ski in them all day on the first day, taking them off just twice during the day a coffee. (This is a record. None of my previous boots have lasted more than one run on first wearing.) They stayed on all day today (day three).
I didn't cry. I didn't whinge. (Ok, I whinged a little, but what are new ski boots without some whinging...)
Get me right, they're not slippers and I have a footbed-related issue (which I supplied). But I know how to sort the footbed issue (I just need a Stanley knife / scissors / Dremel).
Significantly, I have zero (yes zero) hotspots on my foot when I take the boots off.
They continue to flex nicely when it's cold. (It wasn't particularly cold this weekend, but the X2s would have stiffened up.)
it's not like they had an easy weekend. The Tignes glacier is far from nice to ski at the moment - there is only a very thing layer of snow over the glacier ice, which is poking through in large sections.
The only thing I can criticise are the boot clips, which I have particularly annoying problem with and which I want to give Fischer a chance to sort before I write about it. Which I will.
To quote stewart woodward...
| stewart woodward wrote: |
As soon as i see a WC racer in them i will know they work and might buy a pair. Untill then i will stay with my boot tech guy.
So you may have a few seasons left in you  |
The French A team were on the Tignes glacier and three of the team were wearing these boots. Cyprien Richard seemed to be doing very nicely in them!
SMALLZOOKEEPER, quite rightly, raises questions of durability. Frankly, I'm less worried about this given that I ski enough and am changing enough as a skier that I've not had a pair of ski boots last more than three years. If they do that then I'll be happy.
I'm just about to get a flight - so may be a little slow in responding.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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They look interesting, pity they don't do a freeride version as i'm in the market for some stiff boots that don't cripple my feet and require feet defrosting before i can walk again when they are off.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FS, very interesting, I am going to submit "horses for courses (no pun intended)" as SZK fitted me with X3's last year and although I have a particular hotspot I amd oterwise delighted and can happily ski all day in them.
That said, I was not so immediately happy, first hour was grim, but by end of first day they'd settled really quite lovely and what else would you expect?
Intesting, interesting,..
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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but they are yellow. OK for daffodils and custard but not ski boots ta very much. (Ok, I think they also come in white with black cuffs)
| Quote: |
The French A team were on the Tignes glacier and three of the team were wearing these boots.
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well, they were either wearing "these boots" or something that resembled them for televisual purposes. Racers boots have always been just that little bit different and, and if they are fitted in the same way as the punter version, then the boot tech has had the luxury of time and experience and spare shells etc - ski shops don't have the same freedoms and mistakes, big mistakes, will be made I reckon.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 17-10-11 22:41; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bode Swiller, I thought primoz had posted that some of the WC racers were using the Vacuum boots last winter, some were using conventional ones with Vacuum stickers too.
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rjs, nothing conventional about the overall package they get compared to what Joe and Josephine Public get. Some might start with an off-the-shelf product, or there will be special non-public race stock that just happens to look the same, but it's a very different boot once been tech'd to death for them.
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A couple of further thoughts...
Should the boot fitters immediately start re-training?
In a word, no.
The skill in setting up the machine is every bit as important as that needed to mould a good footbed. Given the reliance on getting stance width, knee position and forward lean correct then it's probably harder. You could seriously mess up someone's alignment with a poorly set up machine.
If I were in Morzine full time and could bear the possibility of repeated trips to Chanonix to get more conventional boots sorted then I might have gone that route. (As SZK points out, I could have bought more or less the same boot for less money.)
Interestingly, Cyprien Richard had Vacuum boots with a foam liner and Salomon race boot tongue. So, it shows that there's still a need to customise in some cases.
It's worth saying that the compression system has three "settings" - comfort (100 somethings), performance (200 somethings) and race (300 of those same things) - with the ability to step in increments of 10 (I think).
I took Barlett's advice and went with "performance". The experience was similar to "having a good foaming". I shudder to think what the race fit is like.
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Fair comment on the French team Bode Swiller. There will be undoubtedly a "race department" version - just as for all kit.
I think the question is whether they are wearing boots formed by the same process. I would have asked, but he didn't look that friendly!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FlyingStantoni, If you need to get them adjusted there is a Vacuum machine in Cluses.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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"a Lovely shade of Green!"
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SMALLZOOKEEPER 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Simply fantastic SMALLZOOKEEPER.
They've managed to capture my figure perfectly in that cartoon.
Now, where did I put my crown...
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Poster: A snowHead
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FlyingStantoni, "But Sir if you can't feel the difference then are clearly a complete Fag."
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FlyingStantoni, Oh and I suggest you got a nice woolly sock for your scrotum.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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An egg cosy will cover it
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FlyingStantoni, good review... Must say if my current boots weren't dialled in i would be straight in for a pair.
i have seen FlyingStantoni, ski before and after several pairs of boots and he has pretty bad knock knees and had a tough time getting his equipment dialled in yet with these new boots the alignment seemed perfect for him and I was hugely impressed that he was able to ski them right out of the shop for three days solid on rock hard ice with no issues.. A few seasons ago we skied together and he had custom tweaked boots on and had to stop several times and take the previous boots off in agony...
The complete lack of hotspots and even spacing over the foot this process gives seems to be a big deal and if the flex is less affected by low temps as they claim they will defo be a lot more comfortable.
primoz, Fair point about the stickers on last years gear but Richard and a couple others from the French A team were on the Vacuum boots so there must be something in it.. I was a metre from Richard and FlyingStantoni and they were definitely the same boot. It would be interesting to hear from you to see if anyone has stuck with their old fischer boots rather than switching over.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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FlyingStantoni, Thanks for review, I'm just looking to the Vacs too. Have a right foot shorter then by 3mm then my right (285 and 282), wide forefoot, and always spent ALOTOF times, efforts and money with bootfitters to get boots right for me (never had, actually).
So questions are: what are your foot sizes and what is Vacs sizes you' choose? Actually I'm choosing between 27,5 and 28,5
How do you compare Vacs flex (130pro) to Salomon X2 110? - Last my boots are Salkomon Falcon 10 (110 flex), and I/m choosing between 100 and 130 Vacs.
Appreciate your answer very much!
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Serpit, my foot measured out at 27.0 and I went with a 26.5 shell, rather than going for the 27.5. I tried both and felt that I could put up with any discomfort whilst it packed.
Flex is a tricky question to answer as I think it depends on how the boot sits relative to your ankle bone and also how the plastic reacts to cold.
The X2s sit very nicely with my ankle bone, so in a warm environment they've always felt lovely to flex. But they're sods when it's really cold and below -10 / -15 they stiffen up something rotten. The Vacuum boots are ok on the ankle, but not quite as nice, but first impressions is that they don't stiffen up as much in the cold - although it didn't get particularly cold when I skied them in Tignes.
Personally, I'd go with the 130s.
BTW you realise the "punter" boots are 5mm wider - so you might find those a better fit.
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Sorry, what are "punter" boots?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Serpit, they do two 130 flex boots - the yellow/green ones are the "pro" "race" boots and white, "punter" (i.e. recreational skier) boots. There are three differences between the two. The race boots have a narrower last, a "race" liner (i.e. thinner and laceable) and have clips that can be removed by screwing them out (for if they get broken skiing gates). The punter boots have a wider last, a "recreational" liner (i.e. thicker) and riveted clips.
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FlyingStantoni, speaking of clips....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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...ah, clips...skimottaret...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Do Vacuum boots suck?
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DB 
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You know it makes sense.
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I dropped in to Ski Bartlett today on other business, and asked about the magic machine in passing. They were very very happy to show me the boots, a bit on how they were fitted, the machine, and gave me a brief run down on how it all works.
I have to say that without having done anything more than look at them a bit and talk to the guys there, this seems like a pretty sensible idea. Something I hadn't realised - this isn't moulding the liner. The liner seems to stay pretty much the same, the whole shell of the boot is vacuumed onto your foot with the liner on it.
They also confirmed that they go up to a 104mm last, just like my B90s. So there's half a chance I could actually get a good fit in a boot which is stiff enough to cope with over 100kg hammering it in a turn.
But, and it is a big but with my finances the way they are, they are not the cheapest boot on earth. The general view was that prices may well increase once these become more popular, and the concept has been proven a bit more by people getting out there and doing it. The cost of the boot is about the same as going to the best boot fitters and having them fit some fairly high end boots to your feet, including a few modifications. So the choice really comes down to philosophy or faith I guess - old school fitter vs magic machine.
They also showed me that the flex could be adjusted for particularly cold conditions or if you wanted them stuff/loose for a particular reason on any given day.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
They also showed me that the flex could be adjusted for particularly cold conditions
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Monium, how is that done , bolts in the back?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| Quote: |
They also showed me that the flex could be adjusted for particularly cold conditions
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Monium, how is that done , bolts in the back? |
Yep, there are two bolts in the back.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have to admit these look like a serious contender for me. I have a full size difference between my feet due to an injury many years ago which means the boot on the smaller foot is always too lose. Various tricks get it sorted but it takes weeks. This system seems to suggest it can be done in about an hour. Which is nice.
Once I have boots working well, I tend to keep them for a long time, and use them a lot, so if anything, the liners wear out. I wonder if spare liners will be available. My guess is not.
Most boots also seem to have the wrong shape curve for my feet above the ankle, between the shin and the top of the foot. The Fischer video seems to suggest that this area in particular will form correctly, which would be a huge bonus for me.
I wonder what would happen to them if they got left in the sun during summer.
Also, I guess a correctly formed shell will be a b*gger to get on and off.
When I tried them on at the show, I was pleasantly surprised by how low volume the shell was (the white soft flex model) right from the off, and they also felt quite light compared to say a top end Tecnica.
Interesting.......
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm 10 days into skiing in these boots and thought I'd give an update...
They are still comfortable. Except the neoprene toe box on the liner is tight until it warms up.
We've not had particularly cold conditions yet (only down to around -6) and they do stiffen up considerably when cold - enough that they're more difficult to get on. They are still much easier to get on than the X2s.
They are a sod to get off. Partly because they are so locked down on the achilles.
They are still precise. Very.
I really like the V-stance and what it's done for my alignment.
They haven't packed yet. I haven't touched the clips or micro-adjustors.
Frankly, I'm very pleased.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The boots have now had something like 20-22 days use...
They remain comfortable and had have packed remarkably little - I've had to micro-adjust most of the buckles one or two turns.
I've now skied in them in -15 and confirm that they are effing cold - although I was (at least) a layer under-dressed for the conditions we were on slow(ish) chair lifts. I will probably end up putting in boot heaters, but will give them another outing in cold conditions first.
The boots stiffen up noticeably at a around -5, but I've not noticed them getting appreciably stiffer below that. I will probably take a bolt out on colder days.
It's way easier to put them on cold than take them off. I had to be helped out of them on the -15 day.
I'm convinced that the V-stance thing really works for my knock-knees.
I continue to be very pleased.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Somebody started a new thread in the On Piste section so I thought I would post an update.
Just back from the annual 'boys trip' so now have 10 days in total on these boys.
I'll be brief -
1) Fit - excellent. Bottom clips on first groove, slight buckle adjustment has been required. Moved the top 2 clips in on hole and are now both on first clip too. I am unclipping at coffee stops and lunch.
2) No evidence of packing to date.
3) Cold - they are definitely colder than my old boots, although it has been a cold season to date. Even considering boot heaters 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Fifespud wrote: |
| 3) Cold - they are definitely colder than my old boots, although it has been a cold season to date. Even considering boot heaters |
You want to try my old boots. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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This thread has reminded me that it's time to do an update.
I'll do a proper count, but these boots now have 40+ days on them and I'm loving them. They are the best boots I've had. Period.
Everything above still applies. They have packed a little, but not much.
I've fitted boot heaters for cold days (less than -5 at 1000m) as I had a near miss with frostbite one day.
Like all high flex boots, they can be a sod to get off  .
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I'm glad I bought the Nordica SpeedMachine 14's then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| andyph wrote: |
| Or maybe I just need to stop procrastinating and visit CEM. |
+1
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FAQ
or it might just be the way I'm made. Basically, when I point my feet forwards and flex my knees, they come together. If I keep my legs parallel when flexing, the feet point outwards. I assumed it was just a physical condition I was cursed with, preventing me from ever hoping to lift a crystal globe. 