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We're moving to the Alps :)

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I know to everyone has a different needs, MeMyselfandI. Just thought a real life situation, with real life dilemma's might add a new perspective to the analysis. Not suggesting a right or wrong in anyway. Likely, if my kids were younger, I'd let them do full immersion as well (and I actually I did do that). But in the end, at about age 11, when it came to entering middle school, the language issue went pear shaped in combination with teachers that seem to rewarded for wearing horse blinders!

It could have turned out differently, were the teachers involved a bit more knowledgeable about language development in bilingual children, however that wasn't the case with us. It can so much depend on the individuals you meet along the way...or better said, the persons you search for along the way.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
albinomountainbadger, do you remember which transfer company it was?

Nadenoodlee, YHM
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
MeMyselfandI wrote:
albinomountainbadger, do you remember which transfer company it was?


Sure, it was Skiidygonzales.

Others probably do the same though, I just used them as PowderCab weren't running a shared bus the time I needed and I didn't want to use MorzExpress.
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Quote:

70sqm in a furnished apartment

that would cost you a fair bit if you want to avoid driving to the slopes. Provided you're happy to drive, being out of town would be much preferable, I'd have thought, for the reasons you've stated (looking out at mountains is wonderful at any time of year).
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
miranda, too long and dull to share the ins and outs! But suffice to say we would do it all again in a heartbeat. We've all had an adventure although not all 13 years have been in the alps but have been in France. It's been challenging at times but we have all benefited enormously from the move. We've met wonderful people and lifelong friends and have never been made to feel unwelcome. Maybe we've been lucky but I know my kids will never worry about liiving anywhere in the world, they'll always give it a go, never any shame in trying. Our eldest started school in the first year of primary and is now back in the UK at uni, he feels living in France has been a great experience - enough to thank us for giving it a go here on the day he moved back to the UK! It was a proper, heartfelt "thanks Mum & Dad for grabbing the opportunity to try life elsewhere, I've loved my childhood"! can't ask for much more than that.

I've also taught in maternelle and primaire in France so I maybe able to help MyMyselfandI there. Her kids are the perfect age to make this move. We always rented first when we moved areas to ensure we would fit in then we would buy, it's so expensive to buy and sell in France that making sure you're going to integrate is crucial which is why we would rent for at least the first year.
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Quote:

too long and dull

doesn't sound dull, steph, sounds inspiring. snowHead
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pam w, more than my fair share of cheese and wine over the past 13 years Madeye-Smiley interestingly tho my mum and sis in the UK have hideous cholesterol issues whilst mine remains very low - I think it's the red wine keeping mine down Toofy Grin There's only 400 people year round in our little village but we do have some fun! And it has a great maternelle and primary school too.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
http://www.skipass.com/forums/enmontagne/stations_ski_france/sujet-17335.html

some interesting statistics (a bit old) here about the number of tourist beds in various French ski stations, including Les Gets 12K, Les Saisies 14K (I was surprised that Les Saisies was listed as having more beds than Les Gets).

It's the contrast between the number of beds and the year-round population which can make the places seem somewhat desolate out of season, I suppose. Probably if you know a lot of the permanent residents, have children at the school, etc, you soon get to feel "at home" despite all the shuttered windows. I lived happily in a village of rather fewer than 400 people in Derbyshire, but it was a tiny place - not a big sprawly one, with the vast majority of the residences and the businesses shut for half the year.

I was in Les Saisies this morning (buying €29 worth of Beaufort cheese to take home tomorrow) and despite the heavy snow it was busy, and because it's now French school holidays, slightly difficult to find a parking space on the high street. In a week's time it will be very different.

Having school aged children makes a huge difference wherever you go though - you get to know people quickly, through the kids and the school.

I wonder if members of the "expat community" in Les Gets speak French well and integrate with locals? If they do it might be a good place to settle.

steph, your lack of cholesterol problems might be down to genetics rather than red wine. wink Two of my three kids have major cholesterol problems, the third has low cholesterol.
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pam w, What a fascinating set of statistics. OK the figure are now 10 years old and some, if not most, of the ski resorts have grown since then. Who would have thought that Meribel was 12 years older than Courchevel, that La Norma only has 3,500 tourist beds, and that La Plagne got almost twice the skier days of Les Arcs. I really enjoy reading these stats.
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steph, I was hoping it was a positive experience! I live in a French village with a population of 460 (really lovely, friendly people). There's one little school in the village (the older kids all get the school bus to Megeve for their secondary school), which sounds great to me right now as my friends with little kids are going through the angst of trying to get them into decent nearby schools in the UK!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I know a family who moved to St Jean d'Aulps to set up a chalet business, with children aged around 5 and 9 IIRC. They attended the local school and apparently settled in well. The husband commuted to London from GVA for a couple of days a week, supplementing the coffers in his previous job in IT. They have now sold the business having done what they set out to do, have what hey call 'proper' jobs, the children are very successful in the local ski/MTB teams and it all seems to have been pretty painless. St Jean is a small village but does seem to be a real place with a life all year round. For that, I'd imagine St Gervais would fit the bill too, although I've only been there in peak summer months and January. The chalet we stayed in one winter was run by a Brit family with children aged 3 and 5, who were born in France, attend the local (apparently, very good) school/kindergarten and are bi-lingual. They did tell me (the parents, not the children Very Happy ) that they couldn't imagine living anywhere else now.

Seems it can be done.....
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

I'd imagine St Gervais would fit the bill too

yes, I think St Gervais would be a good place to live. But miranda and the family Anniepen met were running businesses locally, which makes a big difference. It would be harder just as a "visitor" without some reason to interact with local people and businesses. One possibility might be to acquire some basis TEFL qualifications (easier said than done, actually) and give very cheap English lessons to local kids, or perhaps "trade" English lessons for French lessons.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I floated the idea recently of doing some English classes for the village kids (as a way of contributing something to the village as the time cost v money really wouldn't be worth it purely for the sake of earning cash) and everyone was very keen as we are the only British residents in the village and no one else is doing it. Within months of our arrival, the mayor nominated (without much doubt it would be seconded and carried through) my OH onto the local tourism committee, which was a bit of a surprise to OH who knew nothing about it until it was happening! In our little village at least, they have been very keen for us - as native English speakers - to be integrated and if we weren't so busy, we could be a lot more involved than we are.

For me, being in a French village is preferable to being in an expat community because my rubbish French means I would take the path of least resistance if I were surrounded by English speakers. For someone only wanting to do it for a couple of years, I guess having the international expat community around would be preferable.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
miranda wrote:
For me, being in a French village is preferable to being in an expat community because my rubbish French means I would take the path of least resistance if I were surrounded by English speakers. For someone only wanting to do it for a couple of years, I guess having the international expat community around would be preferable.


I know what you mean - my friend moved to Spain about 7 years ago, and lives in a very English expat community on the Costa del Sol. She speaks barely a word of Spanish other than the essentials in a shop or restaurant (please, thank you, hello, goodbye) which really surprised me when I visited her, but she explained that there really was no need as she spends no time with the indigenous locals, rather the 'new' locals. If she lived somewhere else, she may have been 'forced' to learn the language just to get by.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
miranda, we must have both been lucky with the villages we chose to live in Smile I give English lessons to the kids in the village and most of the people here seem to see the benefits of having new blood in the village. We do lots of fruit and veg exchanges in the summer months, we have more apricots than we could ever eat/freeze or turn into chutney so as the tree is by the road I tell people to help themselves and then I always find I'm given a steady supply of tomatoes, peppers etc. I also live in an international expat community for years and loved that too but you're right no matter what your level of French we all took the path of least resistance!
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 Poster: A snowHead
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miranda, Anniepen, that's why I'm keen to go 'local', am far too lazy to make the effort otherwise.

MrI is back late tonight, he's in for a spreadsheet filled treat tomorrow, I'm up to 8 worksheets and counting Smile
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Annecy is a good place to live. Clusaz and Bornand aren't 'inside 30 minutes'. 30 minutes is my personal best to La Clusaz, and it involved cutting every corner and never being inside any speed limits. 45 minutes to each is a safe bet off-peak. In both cases too, it's better to drive to a remote limb of the area as a day-tripper, rather than to the town centres - free parking, and shorter walks to the lifts.

Our lad was too young for school, and Mrs P looked after him the whole time while I was at work, so can't comment on the schooling aspect.

I guess it's an expensive place to live, although it's not terribly different from Brighton where I used to live (2-bed quite-nice flat at a shade under a grand a month rent).

Absurdly busy at peak times though. We try and be nowhere near Annecy most of the time when it's like that.

Also, there are very few indoor activities with kids round here. Swimming yeah, and a couple of places like Royal Kids in Chambery, but we're desperate enough to simply take him to McDonalds for the soft play area on rainy days sometimes, or aimlessly walk round a shop.

Geneva airport is a fairly reliable average of 1 hour each way, regardless of whether you take the toll or not. The border crossing is often a serous pinch point on the motorway, which often cancels out the benefit of that route over the Pringy/Cruseilles/Neydens/Geneva-Centre scenic one.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
miranda wrote:
For me, being in a French village is preferable to being in an expat community because my rubbish French means I would take the path of least resistance if I were surrounded by English speakers.


On a similar note I would also say don't get Sky. Everyone in the alps seems to have it, but I think it's a barrier to integration. You can make all the effort you like in the village, but you're only there for perhaps an hour a day - it's living a language that makes the difference. Also, in addition to having exposure to the language in the house via their radio or telly channels, watching French news and other programmes will give you something to talk about with the locals when you do see them. Astonishing how many people have set down roots in other countries but have absolutely no idea what's going on politically etc. If it gets a bit much, most of the digital channels actually broadcast imported stuff in multiple languages now, so to avoid seeing a Hollywood blockbuster with terrible dubbing you can just push a button on the remote and get it in English.
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albinomountainbadger, +1.

In the Val d'Arly the national RTL2 radio station has local inserts that are clearly aimed at people living there rather than tourists. I was listening one day when the announcer said "and now sport..." and started with the results of recent ski races and how all the local kids had done.
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albinomountainbadger, rjs, but but but I need English commentary for the Formula1
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MeMyselfandI, I have watched the Australian GP several times on French TV, the commentary isn't hard to follow.
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Quote:

don't get Sky

I'm sure that's right from the integration/language POV. To my shame, I only learnt of the spectacular prison escape of the French gangster Redoine Faid today from an item on a website called "News in Slow Italian" - a language learning resource. Embarassed I expect that item was "a la une" in the French media and I completely missed it.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
rjs wrote:
albinomountainbadger, +1.

In the Val d'Arly the national RTL2 radio station has local inserts that are clearly aimed at people living there rather than tourists. I was listening one day when the announcer said "and now sport..." and started with the results of recent ski races and how all the local kids had done.


ha, our RTL2 has a segment where some old boy talks in Patois - even the French tourists look bemused by it! They certainly don't seem to be particularly Anglophone, even in the satellite of Albion that is Morzine... One morning this season they played the weather segment from the end of last season and announced the closing of various lifts. We have the radio on all day at work and I didn't hear them correct or apologise for it once!
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"Dont' get Sky" is like saying "don't read snowheads".

You don't have to literally avoid all English language media to avoid ending up a Costa Del Sol style ex-pat. Jeez. My advice would be get Sky, install Tor/ExpatShield or whatever to keep up with the BBC, and have as many of your native language 'real' friends round to stay as often as possible. Otherwise, unless you are already a top-class French speaker - or a natural loner - you will go insane.
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pam w wrote:
Quote:

don't get Sky

I'm sure that's right from the integration/language POV. To my shame, I only learnt of the spectacular prison escape of the French gangster Redoine Faid today from an item on a website called "News in Slow Italian" - a language learning resource. Embarassed I expect that item was "a la une" in the French media and I completely missed it.


Quite dramatically too, I know it's naive but I didn't think people could escape from prisons any more, certainly not in the old fashioned way of hostages and blasting everything to hell!

Anyone looking to catch up, here's the Indy's coverage: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/frances-enemy-number-one-armed-robber-redoine-faid-is-now-on-the-run-after-a-spectacular-jail-break-8577291.html
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I didn't realise he was a one-armed robber; that makes his escape even more extraordinary. wink
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
pam w, There's a joke in there somewhere ...

oh ... hang on Embarassed
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
*derails thread further* the primary school I went to in NZ was down the road from a psychiatric facility so there was an alarm that sounded if one of the patients escaped. We all had to go inside one sunny lunchtime because a one legged man had escaped, apparently he got 3km before they picked him up.
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You know it makes sense.
Mr Pieholeo wrote:
"Dont' get Sky" is like saying "don't read snowheads".

You don't have to literally avoid all English language media to avoid ending up a Costa Del Sol style ex-pat. Jeez.


And no one said you do, drama queen. It's about avoiding the path of least resistance, as our OP smartly put it. If you have a choice of making an effort to watch the news in French, or just absently mindedly absorbing it your mother tongue, you won't end up watching it in French very often.

To learn a language you need to spend most of your time in that language, and even if comprehension is minimal to start with, a daily ten minutes of radio whilst washing up or following the news after/before dinner will be more helpful than a rigid timetable of language CDs.

As for insanity, living in London was worse for my mind than living in French...
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
albinomountainbadger wrote:

To learn a language you need to spend most of your time in that language, and even if comprehension is minimal to start with, a daily ten minutes of radio whilst washing up or following the news after/before dinner will be more helpful than a rigid timetable of language CDs. .


This is wholly dependent on the individual. My French has improved a fair bit out here (I chat with my bank manager, car mechanics, and more recently the dole office with reasonable competence, albeit all in the present tense). But I don't know if my dalliances with BFMTV and the French version of The Voice have had all that much to do with it. Actually my proper French lessons out here were gash as well. Emails at work were probably where I got most of my grammar from, and vocab is just from roadsigns and supermarkets and that.

Also, I'm hardly a drama queen, love.

x
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Well what definitely doesn't work is sitting at home watching British telly while moaning with your ex-pat mates in English over cups of imported Yorkshire/Tetley tea bags about how you haven't learnt any of the local language.
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You're claiming that drinking tea doesn't produce bilingualism?

That's a pretty bold claim, mon amigo.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Mr Pieholeo, seeing your lad on his snowboard, I would have thought he could have gone to the maternelle? Nursery provisions seems rather good in France, from what little I've heard or seen of it.
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pam w wrote:
Mr Pieholeo, seeing your lad on his snowboard, I would have thought he could have gone to the maternelle? Nursery provisions seems rather good in France, from what little I've heard or seen of it.


We chose not to.
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Wechosenotto is the German name for Weetabix. True fact.
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Mr Pieholeo, he could have taught you French....
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pam w wrote:
Mr Pieholeo, he could have taught you French....


We're still teaching him two other languages.

With hilarious consequences.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Does he get them muddled up? I am wondering how my Italian-based grandson is going to get on - he's far more exposed to Italian, so that's no problem, though he's only at the very, very, beginning of talking, having been concentrating on getting around, up to now.
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Ummm. This is a bit personal for The Piste.

PM incoming, after I've had a wee.

That's not too personal for The Piste.
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Mr Pieholeo wrote:
You're claiming that drinking tea doesn't produce bilingualism?


It doesn't seem to. My boy, when he got home from school tonight asked for "some hot water mixed with milk infused with noble indian leaves"

after I thought about it I asked him "you want a cuppa Earl Grey Tea?"

"ouai tey, c'est ca, la boite jaune de Lord Gris"
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