 Poster: A snowHead
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Anyone seen this out in the wild, sounds very interesting.....
CAST’s innovative patent pending designs have created a product unlike any other on the ski market. The SI&I binding system utilizes the most efficient ski touring capabilities available and couples them with high performance alpine bindings. The result is a binding system that sacrifices nothing in terms of performance, as the ascent and descent components work independently of each other. There is no added footprint to the binding, allowing the ski to flex naturally with minimal added weight.
and they are after some backers...
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/299047004/siandi-alpine-ski-touring-system
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Saw that a few weeks ago.
Dumb idea...
- dynafit bindings ski just fine on the way down
- the cost per set up would be huge (dynafit + look binding + SI&I plate)
- heel piece adds 1kg of unnecessary weight on the way up
- need to carry a spare toe piece in your rucksack and swap it over each transition
A cheap and cheerful alpine-trecker adaptor is a better solution to this 'problem'.
(FWIW you can use treckers with alpine boots! so arguably its actually a better solution)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Haggis_Trap, like with a lot of things it depends on who it's for. I don't know many people that would really, really need this but there are at least some who would prefer a tech toe going up and an alpine binding and boots going down, particularly as the target audience is essentially people jumping off big cliffs. They've got a scheme to put tech inserts into alpine boots as well (purely for touring on not skiing). There is a viable niche there but it's for perhaps less than 1% of the total skiing population and has some competition from the Beast.
kitenski, the Chickering-Ayers guys were skiing on these in the FWT (since it's their baby).
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They've got $48,000 of pre orders, so it seems that there is a market for it.
I guess the existence of the Beast binding is an acknowledgement by Dynafit that a standard Dynafit binding isn't up to the needs of some skiers. There's a good article on Blister that explains why some skiers find the standard Dynafit binding inadequate...
http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/update-dynafit-beast-16-at-binding/2
I'm not certain, but I think that the new K2 'touring' boot would work with the Look Pivot based SI&I system without any modification.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Oceanic, not necessarily all that money is preorders, that's not how Kickstarter works. I stuck money in and won't be getting anything other than some branded tat. 
OTOH I'll probably switch to Beasts on my skis after they've been through a proper production year. Not because I pre-release very often (ski on DIN 10) but for the better connection, release etc.
Totting up the numbers, 47 people have put down money for the actual binding product plus whatever else is offered at the pledge bracket they ended up in.
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meh,
Just did the sums. $27,000 of pre orders and $21,000 of orders for branded goods etc.
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Oceanic, doesn't work that way either, all the levels above the $275 level include other stuff like bindings, dynafit toes and retrofitting tech inserts into alpine boots. Plus the higher tiers have some other less tangible rewards.
In terms of units of the binding system ordered its roughly around $13000 of "pre-orders". (47 * 275)
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It's fully backed now! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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meh,
They will be making a profit on selling the Dynafit toe pieces and Look Pivot bindings. The retrofitting of inserts to alpine boots is another part of the product they are selling.
What I think is harder to predict is how $13000 - $27000 (depending on how you look at it) of pre orders relates to a sustainable demand. Maybe only 47 people will ever buy the product? Or maybe 47 represents a small minority of early adopters.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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LOL, it got me to chip in when I hadn't even though I'd known about it for ages, so in a way it did. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Oceanic, well it's Kickstarter so by definition these are the early adopters willing to put money into something that is still possible to fail and leave the backer out of pocket. We could certainly factor in the toe conversion but I left it out for ease. The higher tiers typically exist to get people to pledge more money than they would per unit so you're right any profit should be factored in but that's not possible. We should definitely remove the cost of the rewards before profit though but again not possible so to be conservative we should ignore them in the higher tiers. The numbers are also out of date now anywho.
Kickstarter is very interesting though because its pretty hard to see exactly how much people actually expect to get out of the end which makes judging the actual risk of donation pretty hard.
I watch it quite a lot because its a really common way to get funding for various game projects.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
| I guess the existence of the Beast binding is an acknowledgement by Dynafit that a standard Dynafit binding isn't up to the needs of some skiers. There's a good article on Blister that explains why some skiers find the standard Dynafit binding inadequate... |
Dynafit bindings ski better than Dukes - the connection to the ski is much more direct plus there is zero stack height.
People like to think they are too 'hardcore / burly / rad' to be skiing downhill on Dynafit.
99.9% of the time they are wrong and just talking hot air about how rad they (think) they are.
This is a solution to a 'problem' that doesn't really exist. For those that really *must* ski in their downhill kit then alpine trecker adapters are a much simpler, effective and cheaper, solution. Much better than swapping your toe pieces mid ski tour, stowing the brakes, and retro fitting after market inserts into the toes of your alpine boots.
I am personally much more excited by next generation of tech binding with DIN rating's
i.e dyna-beast, frtischi tech bindings, new G3 + 'tech2 from la sportiva' all coming soon
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 17-04-13 9:45; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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^ Though if they come out with a heel piece then these plates might have a purpose...
You could then use them to easily swap between alpine + dynafit bindings on the same ski (without the 16 screw hassle of quiver killers / threaded screws etc)
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I guess the existence of the Beast binding is an acknowledgement by Dynafit that a standard Dynafit binding isn't up to the needs of some skiers. There's a good article on Blister that explains why some skiers find the standard Dynafit binding inadequate... |
Dynafit bindings ski better than Dukes - the connection to the ski is much more direct plus there is zero stack height. |
got to disagree here. i like dynafits in soft snow. if I find myself with dynafits on hard snow, the lack of elasticity is really unpleasant. it will be interesting to see how the Beast performs - can't see myself dropping the cash for them any time soon esp since my skis have inserts so in about 10 mins i can swap between dynafits for touring days and markers for mixed days
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
For those that really *must* ski in their downhill kit then alpine trecker adapters are a much simpler, effective and cheaper, solution. Much better than swapping your toe pieces mid ski tour, stowing the brakes, and retro fitting after market inserts into the toes of your alpine boots.
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The whole SI&I system weighs approximately the same as a pair of Alpine Trekkers plus Look Pivots, but the 'on the ski when going uphill' weight is approximately 800g lower per foot.
If a user had K2 Pinnacle boots, I suspect that they wouldn't have to retrofit inserts.
| Quote: |
I am personally much more excited by next generation of tech binding with DIN rating's
i.e dyna-beast, frtischi tech bindings, new G3 + 'tech2 from la sportiva' all coming soon |
So am I.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Alpine Trekkers are completely evil to actually skin in! The point it to take advantage of the awesome touring ability of Dynafit toes in comparison to Dukes, Trekkers etc.
I'm too lame to need them and ski on Dynafits exclusively but I do see a point to them.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The awesome touring ability of dyanfits will be totally ruined going up hill on alpine boots with no walk mode (which kills your calves). SI&I is far from being 'no compromise' solution.
For sure alpine treckers have compromises on the way up too - especially going across slopes. However at least they are cheap and simple which counts for a lot for a solution that wont be used to go far / or often. IMHO anyone touring uphill on heavy alpine kit has already accepted that the uphill is going to be plod.
Any market for this is clearly very niche.
For 99.99% of people the duke or dynafit is perfect depending on specific scenario.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The 'going uphill in alpine boots' problem may cease to be an issue when the K2 Pinnacle comes out later this year.
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^ K2 Pinnacle look like nice boots.
Though Technica Cochise & Lange XT already offer something similar (almost an alpine boot with walk mode + vibram type sole).
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^ mentioned the K2 Pinnacle because it has a DIN sole and tech fittings - so it wouldn't need any modification to work with the SI&I thingy.
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FAQ
