 Poster: A snowHead
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Alex Casey, an instructor working for Simon Butler Skiing in Megeve, has been arrested and is being held in custody [correction: Dunk (below) says he was released after 9 hours]. Supporters have staged a protest outside the police station.
Peter Allen and Benedict Moore-Bridger report for the London Evening Standard ...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/skiers-stage-protest-as-french-police-seize-british-instructor-8558315.html
| Quote: |
| Mr Casey, from Kent, claims he was filming British skiers yesterday when four gendarmes arrested him, accompanied by government officials. He faces up to three months in jail if convicted of instructing without qualifications. |
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 3-04-13 18:02; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Comedy Goldsmith, Why not call on British skiers to boycott French ski resorts? Now that the French have a new "Russio-riche" set of punters they obviously intend to really p*ss the Brits off. 
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Simon Butler's website carries this statement ...
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To all of our loyal and valued guests
Following unprecedented intervention by the French authorities, we have been forced to suspend our usual teaching programme in Megeve, with immediate effect.
Guests due to holiday with us this season will have received personal communications providing all the relevant background information. |
Quite a turn of events for an enterprise with this much experience ...
| Quote: |
| It was 31 years ago that I founded Simon Butler Skiing in Megève, France. My principle aim was to provide instructional ski holidays, opening up the opportunity for people to learn to ski, and improve their skiing, in a fun, safe and friendly environment. Quality instruction has remained at the heart of everything we do and continues to play a key part in the Simon Butler Skiing success story. |
Source: http://www.simonbutlerskiing.com/
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 3-04-13 15:26; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I will not even attempt to understand what is going on, but when you think of the number of foreign nationals that come to the UK and get work............................
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Comedy Goldsmith, That somewhat goes to underline my point regarding the French. Despite 31 years bringing clients/business/money to Megeve the local Gendamerie feel no qualms about hurting the ski-programme of yet another small UK TO. Such a pity as Megeve is a really lovely ski village/spa town with some fairly decent skiing and some wonderful restaurants.
*thinks............ start up new topic....... "Let's Boycott France"...*
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The Telegraph is now running the story, with some extra detail.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9969385/Outrage-sweeps-slopes-as-British-instructor-faces-year-in-jail.html
Includes a related story - running on each of the sites - of an alleged assault of a British skier photographing her instructor being questioned by Gendarmes on the slopes. That incident was reportedly on 27 February ...
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Lianne Purvis, an 18-year-old student at Chichester University in Sussex, lodged a criminal complaint in Megève after allegedly being assaulted by a gendarme on February 27th.
Mark Gibbs, her instructor, said he was "astonished" at Miss Purvis pushed over violently because she was taking photographs of him being questioned for illegal teaching. |
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 3-04-13 15:36; edited 1 time in total
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Megamum, protectionism.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Looks like the French are all for going into other peoples markets (e.g. English electricity market) but aren't so keen about opening up their markets.
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Comedy Goldsmith, that's been on the website for several weeks - since Simon was arrested. I've been there since: they've filmed people skiing, but not instructed.
The background is a current court case, in which SBS's right to employ stagiaires (anyone less that an ITSD), under the supervision of ISTDs, is under question. The French authorities won the first round. They have launched two similar cases in the last 10-12 years or so, but have ended up losing on appeal: the first time at the European level, and the second time at a higher French court. The regulations have changed again though, in a manner that makes it all but impossible for a small company to comply as a "centre de formation". We'll have to see what happens on appeal - one of the regulations makes it impossible for ITSDs who have not been through the French system to be in charge, so I can't see that standing if/when the case gets to Europe.
While the previous cases were active, SBS was allowed to continue with its normal business. Things seem different this time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| theskibob wrote: |
| …the local Gendamerie feel no qualms… |
I'm not sure they're the real baddies. This is being driven by the Ministère de la Jeunesse, I believe. SBS has lots of support from the local community. Even relations with the ESF at Bettex are cordial (they still put on races for SBS). Relations with the ESF at Megève itself are more strained though. Simon used to get his (English) veterans football team (including me) to play against Megève every year; the local team is mostly policemen and the atmosphere has been very good.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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laundryman, Alex was arrested yesterday at midday, released around 9pm after spending 9 hours in a cell for filming guests.
It's very different this time, many people were "controlled" on the slopes yesterday, but as far as we are aware only Alex was detained for such an unreasonable length of time.
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Dunk, yep I heard about that yesterday.
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You know it makes sense.
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Got to be careful - clearly an ability to ski fast through gates is now an essential safety procedure for being able to operate a video camera. I suspect it's beyond a game now - French set some parameters, creative Brits think of ways of operating their business within them, French say "sod that we'll arrest you anyway".
*and by French I of course mean the entire French nation, naturalised citizens and anyone of French origin not the specific people who are being uppity in this case. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fatbob, game, or more than a game, the sad thing is that, as usual, lawyers are the only winners.
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Poster: A snowHead
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laundryman, and a longstanding business that people speak nothing but highly of is potentially destroyed by heavy handed implementation of self interest under the guise of law.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I was a guest at Simon Butler skiing in February, and experienced nothing but a very high quality, professional service with skilled and experienced ISIA qualified British instructors, whose attention to both teaching standards and safety was exemplary. Whilst I was there, the incident of 'assault' reported in the Telegraph took place, and I saw aggressive questioning of the Simon Butler instructors and guests. Whilst I absolutely agree with the need to maintain professional standards, and support all instructors who are capable of achieving ISTD level in working towards it, this seems to be nothing but protectionism, verging on racism, from the Jeunesse de Sport who are driving this move to remove British instructors from the French slopes, even though their qualifications are internationally recognised and allow them to perform all aspects of their instructor roles to a high level.
Simon Butler has a huge amount of support from the town of Megeve, his local suppliers and business contacts and even the local gendarmerie, who recognise the value of his business and the income it brings into a cash-strapped town.
Simon even went to the effort of identifying and offering to employ the 10 ISTDs needed to enable him to operate as a training school, employing and training the British equivalent of 'stagieres', only to be told that this was not acceptable because they were not French and had not been trained in the French system, 'only' holding the equivalent BASI qualification. Now that does seem to me to be pushing the rules beyond the acceptable....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm curious, is it only British instructors the French seem to want rid of, or are other nationalities (Austrian, Swiss, Canadian, etc) being affected too?
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They apply the rule to anyone who doesn't hold the French qualification, but by and large other nationalities have given up the fight to work in France. There are jobs in their own countries that involve much less hassle! Those non-French instructors who work 'legally' in France have been through the system and achieved the full ISTD qualification, including Eurotest, demanded only by France. Simon's 'point of principle' (and he is putting his business and personal freedom on the line to achieve it) is so strong that he has chosen to stay on France and fight for what he sees as fairness and equality (and European law supports him!). He remains an 'oddity' as few in the ski business would have been prepared to tolerate what he has over many years in order to change the law.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rsvpann, megeve= cash-strapped?? What has the world come to?
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Megeve as a resort is seriously in debt - so much so that they can't afford to implement the developments they have planned... including lift-upgrades etc. Not saying that international visitors there are short of a Euro or two....!
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Alex Casey enjoying the basic human right of freedom. Photo from his LinkedIn page The profile of Alex Casey on Simon Butler's website says ...
http://www.simonbutlerskiing.com/alex_casey.html
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| Alex is returning this winter for his 10th Season in Megève ... As many of our regular guests already know Alex organises our very own Simon Butler Skiing GS race. The Friday Race Day event is very popular with many guests who look to see if the improvement they have made throughout the week is reflected in their race times. |
No surprise then, at the level of solidarity he enjoyed from clients/supporters outside the police station. It's a significant action for police to lock somebody in a cell - denial of liberty, even for a matter of hours (provisionally, as seems of have been the case here), is seriously heavy-handed behaviour.
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rsvpann, oops.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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clarky999, it was only Brits I observed being controlled yesterday. There may of been other nationalities stopped but I did not see.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| laundryman, and a longstanding business that people speak nothing but highly of is potentially destroyed by heavy handed implementation of self interest under the guise of law. |
Agreed. The sad thing is that whatever way the court case eventually goes, foreigners with innovative business models will be deterred (or have already been deterred) from trying their hand in France. Most will think it's not worth the aggro. Simon Butler is exceptional in refusing to be cowed.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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laundryman, certainly ... very good point. In the short term, though, Simon Butler is hit by huge impact to his business in the Easter holidays, from a clampdown which has escalated since last autumn. I should think he'll pack up his business there and head for another country for next winter, if that's possible for him.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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What is amusing is that as an ex Ski Racer, Alex would have no problem passing the so called 'downhill racing' part of the French ski test ! He would probably embarrass the times of the French skiers !
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Comedy Goldsmith, He is well established and liked in Megeve by most, I am guessing this is a rouge action by an over zealous bobby. I am sure Simon will deal with it in a mature , sensible and professional manner.
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You know it makes sense.
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Worth remembering that during the season the local police forces are bolstered with reinforcements from elsewhere in France, and those reinforcements often come with something of a big city complex that renders them less flexible than local colleagues. Think an Alpine version of the first half hour of Hot Fuzz...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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albinomountainbadger, quite possibly but one of the Gendarmes could ski.....
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Fattes13 wrote: |
| [b I am guessing this is a rouge action |
Well it would be highly surprising if Les Pulls Rouges wern't involved in stirring it in some capacity
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't know the guy but, from what the papers say and what I see on this thread, he is not n istd with the eurotest and therefore not qualified to work unless as a a stagiere within an authorised ski school with training status.
'he lacks a specific qualification demanded by the French'
I assume this means the eurotest?
If he has been working as a stager for the last 10 years, regardless of nationality, under the French law iirc, he should not be able to continue without moving on in his qualifications to the full French equivalence and eurotest.
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What is amusing is that as an ex Ski Racer, Alex would have no problem passing the so called 'downhill racing' part of the French ski test ! He would probably embarrass the times of the French skiers !
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If this is true, why doesn't he go and take/pass the eurotest and work completely legally?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Philbo, under BASI assuming he holds level 2 he can take as long as he want to fully qualify and continue working in a British ski school environment. A British qualification in the EEC.
Stagiere is a French position held by trainees working in a French ski school.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Please do boycott France and make it all the more pleasant for those of us who understand it. Never fails to flabbergast me how Brits think they know better than locals who have grown up and live in the mountains.
No wonder everyone hates the Brits.....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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MJS, so understanding France means accepting that 31 years of being a member of a local community and contributing to the economy isn't enough to be treated with some basic respect when it comes to a civil law matter?
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fatbob, I would have thought that 31 years of being in the local community would garner some understanding of local laws, attitudes etc.
understanding France means not trying to be a clever dick and work around the law.
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What level of qualification did he have? As far as aware he would need his basi 4 and should have passed his euro test which I'm pretty sure is the same in quite a few European countries. I live with 2 Scottish ski instructors (fully qualified) and they support the recent clamp down on ski guiding and unqualified instruction, I don't know enough to be able to give a proper opinion
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MJS, the ultimate issue is the spirit and letter of European Single Market rules. The courts have ultimately decided in favour of Simon Butler Skiing and against the French authorities on two previous occasions. Since then, the French regulations have been changed. We may yet see what the European authorities think of the new regulations. Where one has been raised is not relevant.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 3-04-13 21:44; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| MJS wrote: |
fatbob, I would have thought that 31 years of being in the local community would garner some understanding of local laws, attitudes etc.
understanding France means not trying to be a clever dick and work around the law. |
dangly bits. The whole of France works around the rules! Beating the bureaucracy is the very raisin d'être for most.
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FAQ
