 Poster: A snowHead
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Last Monday I was skiing in La Grave, and it was a very big day (see my report here).
Although powder was good higher up it started to get very heavy below, and I was finding it very hard work compared to my mate and the guide. They both said that I'd find it a lot easier on fatter skis. I was skiing on my Scott Missions at 89 wide and have always found them very good in powder and crud and cold tracked snow but not too good in heavy powder 
Over the next few days I went to various shops to see what was on offer, as it's the end of the season there are many bargains to be had, both on new skis and ex rental demo skis.
I did find some 110 Black Crows that I was going to "test" for the day to see how I got on with them, but then later on the way home I stopped off at The White Doctors ski shop.
White Doctor used to be known as The Ride Doctor and is run by "Bob" who used to be one of Rossignols top designers, he designed the first twin tip (Scratch) and the Bandit and has been running White Doctor for the past seven or so years here in Serre Chevalier. Though you often see his skis in many other resorts.
http://white-doctor.com/en/
Again you have the option to test free of charge for the day, we had a long discussion with Kevin and I went for some TW10 186 Twin Tips with a waist of 104 with a fair amount of rocker.
Yesterday was my first day on them, powder in the morning was not too bad and we stayed in the trees, and as soon as I started skiing I was blown away with the difference. I was straight lining, doing drops and other stuff that I would never have chanced on my Missions (as much as I love em), my mate(s) were amazed at the speed and attitude that I had developed in such a short space of time.
And they were such good fun to ski on, just felt so good.
So back to the shop late afternoon, and I shelled out for them with my mate also then getting some on the basis of just seeing me ski on them!
And now the good bit, they were ex rental, but had only been used a couple of times, and the cost was 250€ - I did not want the weight of the rental bindings so skis only were 200€ and he mounted some Salomon S12's on them making it a much lighter setup for 320€ - that's skis and bindings!
Today my mate came out on his, and he too was blown away, and he does have a fair few sets of skis such as Mantras, Nordica Steadfasts and I noticed just how fast he was ripping, we both think we're around 15-20% faster through the powder / crud etc skiing fall line far more than we would normally dare do, and that's the crux these skis give you far more confidence / security !
Talking to Kevin today about them I commented how easy it seemed and not so hard on my knee, and he said that Twin Tips are much more flexible and soft, which is good for the knees. Plus have to say I did not notice the extra length at all.
And as we are now Serre Che residents it's sort of cool to have Serre Che skis 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 30-03-13 18:24; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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OK, I've probably just missed it or am being thick, but what skis were they exactly?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Weathercam, thx, any idea how stiff they are relative to Rossi S3?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Weathercam, fantastic, great to hear, nothing better than feeling the need to scream something from the hills 
Now, where's the end of this queue....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Weathercam, White Doctor is the brand that have ripped-off the Whitedot name & logo. Shame on you 
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spyderjon, what are the exact facts behind that statement then, I'm kind of curious?
Originally it was Ride Doctor but some North American Co made him change the name.
Bob's pedigree as a designer is beyond reproach.
And how long have Whitedot been around ?
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As far as I'm aware White-Doctor has not ripped us off. Both brands were born around the same time (Whitedot and Ride Doctor). The logo resemblance is coincidental and it's not an uncommon logo shape.
It was unfortunate when Ride Doctor changed their name a couple of years ago to a name that is similar to ours but Bob is aware of us and our views and we wish them success in a difficult market.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Weathercam, I'm guessing you're on commision then 
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Dot., that's very diplomatic of you. Ride Doctor must have certainly known of Whitedot & the success you were having & therefore were looking to 'ride' on the back of your success by choosing a name/logo that was very similar. It may not be illegal but it's pretty shoddy behaviour - & as they'd already done it once with the Ride Doctor name it can't have been accidental as a quick google search would have made them aware etc! Bob may well design/make great skis but he obviously doesn't have many moral scrupels when it comes to marketing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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spyderjon, +1
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Dot., diplomatic but as someone who has had his intellectual property ripped off I would be less diplomatic. A quick look at his site it is obvious he is a thief. If you have registered your trademarks and logos I would send in the lawyers for trademark infringement and passing off. I wish Bob, who appears to have no marketing skills whatsoever and made a straight rip off of your hard work no success whatsoever...
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And he's done a good selling job and S&R are stocking his skis!!
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You know it makes sense.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| Dot., diplomatic but as someone who has had his intellectual property ripped off I would be less diplomatic. |
I must admit to being confused by the two marques. I thought that White Doctor was a submarque of White Dot, obviously I was wrong.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| davidof wrote: |
| skimottaret wrote: |
| Dot., diplomatic but as someone who has had his intellectual property ripped off I would be less diplomatic. |
I must admit to being confused by the two marques. I thought that White Doctor was a submarque of White Dot, obviously I was wrong. |
They are definitely sub something.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| meandrew wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| skimottaret wrote: |
| Dot., diplomatic but as someone who has had his intellectual property ripped off I would be less diplomatic. |
I must admit to being confused by the two marques. I thought that White Doctor was a submarque of White Dot, obviously I was wrong. |
They are definitely sub something. |
A friend of mine bought some White Doctor new for 150 euros at the end of last season. They looked good but were made in the PRC, which didn't really inspire confidence but still.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There was a thread on the White Dot/White Doctor thing on here a couple of years back, if anyone's interested enough to track it down. I seem to remember Ride Doctor became White Doctor a few years after Whitedot were started. The website styling is certainly similar, but the skis look nothing alike.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| ....I seem to remember Ride Doctor became White Doctor a few years after Whitedot were started..... |
That is my understanding.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Weathercam, I first came across White Doctor for the first time a month or 2 back at the UK trade show. I had a "double take" moment when I spotted the branding and it wasn't Whitedot.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| AndAnotherThing.. wrote: |
| Weathercam, I first came across White Doctor for the first time a month or 2 back at the UK trade show. I had a "double take" moment when I spotted the branding and it wasn't Whitedot. |
I actually challenged them re this at Slide & they couldn't give me an answer.
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spyderjon, White Doctor aside, I was impressed after a chat with the guy on the Black Crows stand about their ski design ethos & application of their products. "Navis" for me apparently 
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Well I've just looked at the sites and the ski patterns. The little man logo is different but the area mark is similar and the name on the bottom is .......... well...... amazingly similar.
I don't know anyone in the companies but as an outsider it looks like a bit of a rip-off.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 20-04-13 10:08; edited 1 time in total
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ww166no, Weren't the originals actually copies of other skis? Think they were, think the whole thing is a rip off.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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glasgowcyclops, +1
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ww166no, 
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Having skied the white doctor tw10 and putting all the above views/slander etc to one side, I can safely say I rate Bob and his skis!!
May even order a pair.
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You know it makes sense.
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My view is that its irrelevant how nice a guy he is, how good the skis are or how long he's been in business under another name - if he choose to adopt the name White doctor and/or the teardrop logo after the presence of Whitedot in the sector the onus should be on him to reverse the similarity.
Let's envisage the scenario (can't remember if it's S&R that were carrying White Doctor but let's say it was):
Customer walks into S&R: Have you got Whitedot skis?
Salesmonkey: No , but we've got White Doctor, they're similarly freeride orientated and in fact even better...cue usual bollux.
It might have happened accidentally but it's doing neither party any favours to have confusion in the market unless one is deliberately trying to piggy back on the other. Of course litigation is a very costly way to resolve stuff so it's only views from the market will influence things.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| AndAnotherThing.. wrote: |
| spyderjon, White Doctor aside, I was impressed after a chat with the guy on the Black Crows stand about their ski design ethos & application of their products. "Navis" for me apparently |
I tested the Navis a few years ago and was blown away by them. A fantastic ski although there have been a few minor changes since then.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The name, logo and typeface (including lower case in both cases) are close enough that most consumer products companies would be having lawyers have a very close look at it. Now IP lawyers are expensive (and shittonnes of them are making $$$ with ludicrous battles between smartphone makers) so I see why its in no-one's interests to get legal about it but it still doesn't reflect well on the party who was the copier.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| My view is that its irrelevant how nice a guy he is, how good the skis are or how long he's been in business under another name - if he choose to adopt the name White doctor and/or the teardrop logo after the presence of Whitedot in the sector the onus should be on him to reverse the similarity. |
[b]carlos the slackal/b], See above. Do you get it now
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yep, I get it. An idiot might consider the logos the same. An idiot might see them as having the same name, logo and typeface.
But anyone with any knowledge of IP would simply laugh at them. They look nothing like each other.
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To be honest, the graphic designer at white dot is in the middle of a brainfart . . . It's ok to break the rulesif you know t'bloody things in the first place! The other skis are agonist as ugly but white dot is in a league of crispness all of its own.
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Fookin' predictive txt 
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So many skis are similar to others. You saw when armada tried to sue everyone re the rocker. Loads of skis have similar graphics these days.
Just playing devil's advocate but Whitedot aren't a million miles from early black crows designs. A blatant copy should be dealt with. Whitedot don't seem to have a problem so fair play.
J
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Nobody's made any suggestion that White Doctor have copied either Whitedots or anyone else's skis. The issue is the very close resemblance of the name & logo. I know of customers that thought they were one & the same & I know of a major UK retailer who was also confused. How long will it be before they start calling themselves White Doc?
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