 Poster: A snowHead
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Currently sat in Schiphol airport after KLM's budget airline, Transavia, offloaded my bag and bumped me onto a different flight to Innsbruck via Frankfurt. This will mean that instead of arriving in Innsbruck at 1105 in time for a half day in St Anton I'll now get there at 1750 and might miss my tea.
The Leeds to Amsterdam flight, sold as a connection, left Leeds 50 minutes late, but landed only 15 minutes after advertised arrival time. I managed to leg it to the gate and could have boarded (I wasn't the last in the queue), except they'd decided at some point to offload my bag and therefore they wouldn't let me fly.
It's pretty bonkers to sell a flight as "connecting" when they're going to boot you off it if your incoming flight is only 15 minutes late, isn't it (especially when you could have made the damn thing!)? If only I'd done hand baggage only...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I was under the impression that there had to be a certain gap between flights sold as connecting?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There's an hour and 5 mins between what they advertise as "arrival" and the connecting one. We landed at 0845 but were ten minutes being bussed to the terminal. A nice ladt whizzed me through security but they'd clearly decided to rebook me well before we got there. They said my bags had been "offloaded:, but I suspect the answer is "not even brought to the plane" - if they were then why couldn't they just reload them? They were still loading bags when I was at the gate.
I assume this is one of those compo jobs where I think I'll get €250, but to be honest thats not a great rate of pay for sitting at Schiphol for nearly five hours and missing half a day's skiing (out of only 3 days).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
Currently sat in Schiphol airport after KLM's budget airline, Transavia, offloaded my bag and bumped me onto a different flight to Innsbruck via Frankfurt. This will mean that instead of arriving in Innsbruck at 1105 in time for a half day in St Anton I'll now get there at 1750 and might miss my tea.
The Leeds to Amsterdam flight, sold as a connection, left Leeds 50 minutes late, but landed only 15 minutes after advertised arrival time. I managed to leg it to the gate and could have boarded (I wasn't the last in the queue), except they'd decided at some point to offload my bag and therefore they wouldn't let me fly.
It's pretty bonkers to sell a flight as "connecting" when they're going to boot you off it if your incoming flight is only 15 minutes late, isn't it (especially when you could have made the damn thing!)? If only I'd done hand baggage only... |
I'm guessing they oversell their flights and you got bumped.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| I'm guessing they oversell their flights and you got bumped. |
They were very keen to stress I wasn't bumped (Transavia are KLM's low cost airline) when I used that term - however the fact remains they decided I would miss it and I didn't - which is what irritates me. I knew it was tight so I legged it through the airport, but they'd obviously decided long before that I wasn't getting it - so I suspect they never even brought my bag round to the plane. If they had it'd still have been within 200yds of the aircraft - I was there within 25 minutes of our plane stopping, and they did ask if it could be reloaded. The chap said no (didn't even look or ask) so I'm pretty sure they'd just sent it off to Lufthansa (who the rebooked flight is with).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| I'm guessing they oversell their flights and you got bumped. |
They were very keen to stress I wasn't bumped (Transavia are KLM's low cost airline) when I used that term - however the fact remains they decided I would miss it and I didn't - which is what irritates me. I knew it was tight so I legged it through the airport, but they'd obviously decided long before that I wasn't getting it - so I suspect they never even brought my bag round to the plane. If they had it'd still have been within 200yds of the aircraft - I was there within 25 minutes of our plane stopping, and they did ask if it could be reloaded. The chap said no (didn't even look or ask) so I'm pretty sure they'd just sent it off to Lufthansa (who the rebooked flight is with). |
Yeah, sounds about right.
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under a new name, this is my specialist subject - I work with IT systems in the airline industry. The rules for making connections are rather complicated. If flights are actually sold together as a connection, either by the airline or by an accredited travel agent they have to conform to a Minimum Connection Time. MCTs are many layered. Typically there is an overall one for the airport but then there may be exceptions according to the airline(s) and terminal(s) involved. The reservations systems used by airlines and travel agents usually calculate the MCTs automatically and won't normally allow a booking to be completed if it is in violation of MCT. I don't have an MCT table handy at the moment so I have no idea about the applicable times in this case but I would be surprised if the booking was in violation of the MCT for an online connection Transavia to Transavia or Transavia to KLM.
Which begs the question as to why the airiline was so trigger-happy in rebooking andy from embsay, . Sadly, for I would love to believe that airlines were all honest and honourable, I suspect that the connecting flight was indeed overbooked and this was the least bad way they had to address the issue. Still, at least being in the EU means that he is due to be compensated.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
And the compo thing is three hours delay - and it's real money - €250. I've checked - had to spend my 4 hours sat here doing something... Thankfully I fly quite a bit with work so have a lounge pass, so after three free beers and some peanuts things aren't so gloomy now...
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andy from embsay, That softens the blow a bit - the compo not the beer and buts. Nice to know about the 3 hours delay too, probably why they allowed us to get our connection as we were looking at a 5- 6 hour wait otherwise.
Just enjoy the skiing when you finally get there.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Bogusman wrote: |
under a new name, this is my specialist subject - I work with IT systems in the airline industry. The rules for making connections are rather complicated. If flights are actually sold together as a connection, either by the airline or by an accredited travel agent they have to conform to a Minimum Connection Time. MCTs are many layered. Typically there is an overall one for the airport but then there may be exceptions according to the airline(s) and terminal(s) involved. The reservations systems used by airlines and travel agents usually calculate the MCTs automatically and won't normally allow a booking to be completed if it is in violation of MCT. I don't have an MCT table handy at the moment so I have no idea about the applicable times in this case but I would be surprised if the booking was in violation of the MCT for an online connection Transavia to Transavia or Transavia to KLM.
Which begs the question as to why the airiline was so trigger-happy in rebooking andy from embsay, . Sadly, for I would love to believe that airlines were all honest and honourable, I suspect that the connecting flight was indeed overbooked and this was the least bad way they had to address the issue. Still, at least being in the EU means that he is due to be compensated. |
Yeah, but isn't that normal practice? They know there'll be some no-shows so maximise their profits by overselling.
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Do low costers overbook? I've never seen anyone get bumped off a low cost flight.
I suspect what happened here is they didn't think they could get my bag there on time so they didn't even try.
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You know it makes sense.
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Bogusman, this was sold as a connection, but they are clearly right on the limit if a 15 minute delay means they bump you.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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From personal experience and talking to the airport taxi drivers it is standard practice for KLM to experience "technical problems" with larger planes from UK regional airports that are not fully booked - instead they send a smaller plane and give priority to passengers who hold one of their frequent flyer cards and bump those who can't be fitted on. I've also experienced missed connections returning to the UK via Schipol so now I prefer to travel to a London airport and fly direct.
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Poster: A snowHead
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andy from embsay, my parents got offered money to decline their seat on an easyjet flight last year. I think it was more to do with the plane being overweight rather than not enough seats, as most of the passengers had sports equipment with them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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andy from embsay, most "low cost" airlines are less likely than traditional carriers to overbook but it isn't unknown. On the whole they do revenue management differently and their ticketing conditions are different. Nevertheless there is still a reasonably predictable level of no-shows and some now take advantage of it. And yes, some MCTs do cut it fine. In part it's to do with appearing more advantageously in the reservations systems which prioritise shorter overall journey times.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well having been told that I couldn't fly because they'd offloaded my bag I arrived in Innsbruck to find...no bag! So it appears you can fly without your bag as long as it's their cock up.
One pair of new ski pants and a quick trip to the hire shop and I'll be able to ski, but this is a lesson learned - never, ever fly with KLM if you need to make a connection!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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or air france (which is the same company).
quite a few KLM transfers for birthday bashes had bags arrive mid week.
my air france bags arrived on the thursday after a saturday flight.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Fyi.
If using Transavia avoid Schiphol if possible.
Transavia this season operates flights to Innsbruck
From Rotterdam & Eindhoven often cheaper.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
So it appears you can fly without your bag as long as it's their cock up.
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Yip! If you don't turn up for a flight on which you have a bag it is potentially a suspect package on board - hence it will be offloaded. If you are on the aircraft and your bag doesn't manage to get on board then its deemed OK. Bags maybe delayed for a number of reasons - technical failures, falls off the trolley, delays in the baggage scanning area (especially if your bag is selected for more intense scrutiny) or just cause the first plane was late.
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'pushing in' is a more honest term than overbooking. Certain classes of frequent flier are guaranteed a seat on any flight that they turn up to. If the plane's already full, they push in to the plane and push you or me off. Not nice.
Low cost airlines don't make these promises to their favourite customers, so the rest of us get a fairer deal. KLM have done exactly the same thing to me, btw.
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Dont forget to register as a frequent flyer 
Anyone who uses KLM for European flights and arnt a frequent flyer, will have to pay for any hold luggage after 22nd April
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| stanton wrote: |
Fyi.
If using Transavia avoid Schiphol if possible.
Transavia this season operates flights to Innsbruck
From Rotterdam & Eindhoven often cheaper. |
Only flying with them because there's a Leeds connection, so will avoid KLM like the plague in future.
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| Quote: |
So it appears you can fly without your bag as long as it's their cock up.
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Yip! If you don't turn up for a flight on which you have a bag it is potentially a suspect package on board - hence it will be offloaded. |
I don't think my bag was ever "onloaded" to be offloaded - I was there in time to board the plane - I think they decided it was unlikely I'd get there so rather than delay the flight by having to take it off they just didn't put it on. But unfortunately they didn't bother to put it on the one I did go on either!
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FAQ
- get upstairs to the comfy chairs and wait it out. 
Dont know if you will get that compo, thought it didnt apply until after 7 hours delay 
Its only a voucher too isnt it - not beer tokens ?
