 Poster: A snowHead
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I am opening a can of worms here as many snowheads appear to be dismissive of a skier placing emphasis on the total length of piste he/she skis or the amount of piste in a resort.
To avoid my head being bite off I declare upfront that I have no such ambition and my interest is really trying to find out how much we ski in a day or in a 6-day trip, as a way to gauge whether a resort is large enough to sustain a week of bashing.
Basically this thread is to do with do we know how long a distance we normally ski, down to the nearest km. The distance can be done repeating the same run over and over again or travelling around a resort never skiing a run twice.
Since none of us carries a speedometer of a distance tracking device (those smart arsx with hand held Sat Nav may disagree but I doubt if their device will compute distance based on latitude and longitude readings on a continuous basis), at least I am not aware of one available for attaching to a human body, there does not seem to be a way to find out how much we ski so I offer the following suggestions for the evaluation.
Many piste maps do publish either the length of each run or the length of each chairlift. For the former it is easy as one can sum up the lengths of the runs in a day and the answer will be known.
For the latter with the length information based on chairlift one can use the chairlift length as the approximate distance for the run. As the actual run is invariably not straight and so summing the lift distances should be on the conservative side.
I am not asking any of you to do it but suggest that we can be look at the matter scientifically.
There are resorts that have loops with known distances, like the white ring of Zurs and Lech or the Sella Rinda in Dolomistes. So if one manages to complete the loop in a day then that would tell the distance one has skied. The longest loop in Sella Ronda is about 40km including lifted distance. Excluding the distance in the chairlifts the Sella Ronda skiing distance is about 26 to 28km.
On a very rough approximation of say a lift on average is 1 or 1.5km long (I have been dragged by a surface lift over 2km) and one skis 20 runs in a day then one can say he or she has done 20 to 30 km a day.
Thus it is possible that an average skier will do about 20 to 30 km skiing a day. Good skiers able to ski faster can of course clock up more mileage, possibly more than double the above amount. However one is not far off when saying skiing between 20 to 30km per day is a normal activity in a skiing holiday, good weather permitting and no long queue of course.
I just wonder if any snowhead has suggestion to reinforce or demolish the above suggestion for an average skier. I am of course based on the assumption one skis 10 runs in the morning and another 10 after lunch. Skiing late in the season, when more light is available, is different to skiing early in the season when it gets dark a lot sooner, and so my suggested figure is really an average.
If the about is reasonable then a 6-day holiday would be well spent if there are 6x30=180km piste available to explore. Therefore would a resort with between 150 to 200km piste be able to sustain sufficient variety for an average skier in a week? On that note one can imply an average skier will need to visit 3 Vallees in 3 trips, each lasting one week, in order to adequately explore its 600km piste domain.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 2-02-08 12:26; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
those smart arsx with hand held Sat Nav may disagree but I doubt if their device will compute distance based on latitude and longitude readings on a continuous basis |
But that's exactly what those gizmos DOES! (at least they advertise to do)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yeah, that's essentially what a GPS device does.
I have a wristmounted one, not noticeable underneath my coat when worn.
Start it at the start of the day, stop it at the end. Tells me distance traveled, max speed, average speed and gives me a map of the routes I've taken. Mine's probably the most basic of readers out there.
People competing in the GPS races here in Tignes (3 hours wherever you like, can't use same lift twice) get 60+kms. 
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 1-02-08 17:52; edited 2 times in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Being obsessive over maps and skiiers. the holiday I had at christmas I recorded all the lifts and pistes i took. Then drew the path on google earth. It took a while but is a lot less expensive than an electronic gizmo.
It came out as:
Total just pistes 127km.
Lifts and Pistes 226km.
The most I travelled on pistes in 1 day was 26km
The most I travelled on piste in 1 afternoon/morning was my last afternoon at 15km.
I like travelling, but being with ski school and my family it limited how far I went. I would have wanted to do a few more pistes a day. If I didnt have ski school I would ski more due to less standing around talking.
This obviously isnt very accurate. It doesnt incorporate every turn i made on piste and exactly where i went while I was on a specific piste
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So, Spikyhedgehog...........? what did it say?
(Though of course hedgehogs aren't, generally, the fastest things on two (or 4) legs)
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 1-02-08 17:54; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Spikyhedgehog, vaguely stupid question, are they clever and accurate enough to calculate speed bearing mind that the horizontal distance you ski on a map is shorter than the real distance you travel along and down a slope?
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Through my experience, they aren't far off.
People think that it only measures the horizontal component of your travel, when you are actually skiing a hypotenuse. The GPS does account for this and measures your actual distance traveled (I think).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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saikee, I have a Geonaute wits GPS ... and I doubt it's accuracy. It's no more than a toy ....
..which is what people who need 'Megaresorts' to cover their 7-day mileage should still be playing with ...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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stewart woodward, I have to count them unfortunally. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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saikee, I have a Navman GPS and this is deliberately marketed as a skier's toy because you can tell it not to measure uphill (lift) mileage. It is relatively accurate as I have also used it when running along routes of known distance.
It also records things like peak speed for the day and can do laptimes and things like that.
I have found that for me, quite a "heavy" day is 20+ piste miles.
It also displays actual speed and so you can use it to work out which lifts are quicker, though it often struggles in enclosed lifts.
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saikee, I have heard that the PDS "circuit" is about 80kms easily done in a day although involving one 5-10km bus ride
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You know it makes sense.
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| Spikyhedgehog wrote: |
| People think that it only measures the horizontal component of your travel, when you are actually skiing a hypotenuse. The GPS does account for this and measures your actual distance traveled (I think). |
Quite correct. GPS works in three-dimensions, and therefore your devices can work out your vertical as well as horizontal distances.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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saikee, the dolomiti superski pass allows you to check all your distance/height stats by putting the li9ftpass no. into their website. This is reasonably accurate and gave me 50km's boarding on the biggest day: Selva to Marmolada and round the sella ronda puss a couple of detours, I could probably ahve done a bit more as we weren't really tanking it.
Spikyhedgehog, I saw the results so far for that GPS thing, some of those guys were doing massive distances, especially with the lift limitation. Any of you guys tried it yet?
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Poster: A snowHead
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PS. Is there a rule or law against skiing the same run more than once? I've had as much fun skiing the same run multiple times in small areas as I have skiing different runs all day in big areas...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skisimon, not at all. Last week we were stuck with the choice of either a red or a blue off one chair that was open due to the weather for the whole day. It was still a great day as there were countless variations and I doubt the same path was taken top to bottom more than once.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Been a few years since I looked at the hand held Sat Nav sets. I quoted the above because I ended up computing the distances, using the Lat/Long readings myself for a job a few years back.
David Murdoch,
It appears the 20 to 30km, which is 12.5 to 18.8miles assuming there is 1.6km in a mile, is a fair distance for some snowhead.
80km distance less say 10km bus ride is still 70km. Is it possible that includes the distance while the skier is being transported by the lifts. Say this is the case and if we set 40% of it aside for lifted distance then the skiing distance will drop to 70*0.6 = 42km. That is too far off the 20 to 30km range and is achievable by a good skier I would have thought.
The reason I doubt PDS is because it has a lot of drag lifts and this makes high mileage more difficult to achieve.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Agenterre, my GPS print out is bigger than yours 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Swirly, it's in April. My friend won the woman's ski section last year. I seriously have to beat her..
Crowded House do it weekly but I haven't looked into that.
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saikee, if people can ski 65kms in 3 hours then you can ski 70 in a day..
Granted they are ragging it..
I only have a GPS because I like to challenge myself on the same runs because I'm here for so long.
I would rather enjoy myself if I was only out for a week, rather than get held up in stats.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Crowded House do it weekly but I haven't looked into that.
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That's the stats I saw.
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Swirly, ahh ok. The Jam/Loop run one yearly, quite a big event for seasonaires.
Someone has a top speed of 130 kph iirc through the crowded house. I might have a go next wednesday.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| skisimon wrote: |
| PS. Is there a rule or law against skiing the same run more than once? I've had as much fun skiing the same run multiple times in small areas as I have skiing different runs all day in big areas... |
No. Neither is there a law which says you can't take multiple lines down the same piste or pitch in one of the mega-resorts.
I don't have a desperate urge to clock up lots of mileage on different pistes, but I do like a resort to have a wide variety of terrain.
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brian
brian
Guest
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brian,
Sound like to me your are going to La Grave or Ste Foy.
skisimon, Agenterre and abc,
I think treating the skiing distance as a bragging right misses the point of this thread.
If you ski the same run 20 times and it is 1 to 1.5km long you clock up the same distance as any other skier who spreads the distance over different runs.
My interest is how much distance do we normally do in a day.
Bearing in mind in selecting a run to ski it repeatedly you have to try other runs to arrive the conclusion the one to be repeated is indeed the best or most fun to do. Thus you do need to explore other areas in order to identify the piste that you like and its condition remains unchanged during your stay there.
At the end of the day how a skier chooses to use his/her ski pass is his/her right as we all have paid for the right to access the full resort facilities. I would have thought unless you know the resort you do need to find it for yourself to see which area has best condition, which restaurant has the least crowd and which queue is the shortest when selecting one of two runs to ski repeatedly.
The conclusion we could draw so far is we all do about the same amount of exercise in 20 to 30km and those who exceed it have skiing ability above the average.
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You know it makes sense.
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I would say the biggest variable affecting the distance travelled is the size and ability range of the group.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Why did the hedgehog cross the road?
To see his flat mate.
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Poster: A snowHead
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http://www.saalbach.com/SkilineCompetition.989.0.html?L=1 do vertical skied in a day. One guy's done 39km _vertical_ in a day - that's got to be a fair mileage! The graphic displayed for his vertical estimates it to be 182km, but almost all of it is on the same run, which kinda defeats the purpose!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I think treating the skiing distance as a bragging right misses the point of this thread.
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so, what's the point of the thread? I surely missed it entirely what milage has anything to do with anything, especially given the emphasis you put on the accuracy of recording such milage. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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abc,
Sorry, wasn't directed to you. I agree withwhat you have said in your last post. I was interested to know the amount of exercise a skier would do in a day and one method is to sum his/her skiing distance. As already pointed out a skier skiing the same slope repeatedly could clock up the same amount of mileage as one go round the resort and never ski the same slope twice.
It seems to me if we go skiing then we would travel easily 20km on a pair of skis or a snowboard. I was curious if one does 10, other may do 30, 60 or even 100km in a day. So far skiers doing 40km+ are not in the majority.
Sideshow_Bob,
The 39km vertical is the sum of the vertical distance. I checked the Saalbach piste map and it is quite possible to clock up 182km skiing distance in the process.
More than 15% of the runs in Saalbach/Hinterglemm runs are 4km or longer with the 2a+2b the longest at 7km. Thus if a skier goes up Schonleitenbahn godola and skis the piste No. 61, which is 4.5km long and 0.971km in elevation, repeatedly doing twice number of runs as an average skier by 20 runs in the morning and then 20 runs in the afternoon the vertical drop would be 38.96km and the skiing distance 180km.
The wife and I only managed 24.1km skiing distance the last time we skied there. It is one of the longest loops going forward on one side of the valley and returning on the opposite side. It wasn't particularly demanding and we did in Christmas time (short day light) but we did not hang around.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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saikee, One of the runs in the PDS is very easy done every 15/20mins including the the lift up - Abricotine - 3380m - so in a day (7hrs) you can clock up easily - 70.98km!!! I will let you know in March the PDS I have been promised one of those GPS gizmos for my birthday! In the summer it is 80Km on the bike so I inagine it is about the same on skis!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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All the zig-zagging many people do must nearly double the fall-line distance. I wonder how those toys deal with that - does it ignore it or include it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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They *can* be accurate to within meters, depending on the satellite coverage of the area.
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When we went to Alpe D'Heuz we skied the Sarenne in around half an hour without really going fast, effectively we covered 16km in half an hour.
Its all governed by the lift service, I would think most people ski faster than the lift moves up hill.
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The famous Villaroger run at Les Arcs is 2.1 km vertical: I don't know how far the travel is on that. ( Are you counting up as well as down for vertical?)
And La Grave top to bottom is 2.15km vertical - more if you end up further down the road. (I can't seem to find my 1:25.000 map so I can't tell you how much)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowball,
The Saalbach/Hinterglemm piste map has the run distances, chairlift lengths and heights printed, ast least in the one I got. The couple of runs I check all show up piste length : chairlift length in a ratio of 2:1, say Run No. 61 against Schonietenbahn and Run 22 against Lift No 45+42. Thus a piste can be easily twice as long as the chairlifted distance.
The reason I looked into it is because Sideshow_Bob's post shows skiers/boarders were competing for the biggest accummulated vertical drop achieved in a day. The record hodler's 39km was suggested to be accommpanied with 182kmskied distance. The angle subtended by 39km over a 182km slope is 12.374 degrees or 22% (22 vertical over 100 horizontal). This looks extremely flat to me.
I believe the steepest groomed slope in Austria is 78%, sign-posted in top of Harakiri run in Mayrhofen, so assuming the 39km vertical drop deing skied at half of that gradient (or 39% or 21.3 degrees) should yield a horizontal and slope lengths of 100km and 107.3km respectively. The 107.3km is a straight slope length and so the quoted 183km skied distance is cedible to me if a skier has to do zig-zags to come down a slope. The ratio of 183 : 107.3 is 1.7.
Like the current thread we could look at the matter at various ways and the numbers do apparently add up at the end, at least me.
Don't know the biggest single vertical drop of a run or combined run but on paper the height between Zermatt top at 3899m to the Cervinia's Valtournenche 1524m is 2375m. The trouble of this run is the top could be close due to high wind while bottom may not have adequate snow at the last leg beyond Salette at 2245m level.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 2-02-08 12:19; edited 1 time in total
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This has been a topic of discussion at the shop recently, as when we ski lunchtimes, we spend more time on the lifts than skiing. Yes the system is old and we do ski fast but compared to resorts like La Plagne, it sucks. Oh yeah and we ski at the Brevent, GM is too far away for a lunchtime, so that would change things.
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