When did your ski area last have a major expansion?

A snowHead

Prompted by a discussion on the PdS thread, I was wondering whether big enlargements of the skiable areas are still going on? Avoriaz developed the super-morzine sector in '89, adding 5 lifts and 7 pistes. Since then the perimeter hasn't significantly changed anywhere in the PdS, lots of infilling and upgrading but no more virgin territory taken-over.

A snowHead

shep, There is a moratorium on developing new areas in Austria and Switzerland, so resorts can only upgrade and make the areas safer if the upgrades increase skier volumes in those areas. I believe this has been in place for well over 10 tears now. Not so sure about France as I longer ski there on a regular basis.

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Samerberg Sue, Do you know how long that's been in place?

What about outside of Europe?

When was Nevis range developed?

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shep, I'm not sure. The legislation that put the ban in place in Austria was introduced under various Environmental protection laws and I am fairly certain that is also the case in Switzerland. I only know about it through friends who are involved with the infrastructure in certain ski areas who have explained the various hoops they have to jump through to simply upgrade lifts.

Putting in totally new lifts with the associated extensions to pistes, etc is not exactly unheard of, but it takes an awful lot of time and energy to get it done. I know for example the extension of the Alpendorf slopes that took place when they applied to build the Buchau/Gipfelbahn ( totally new lift and pistes) were pushed through because the landowner was part of the syndicate and also they were able to prove that it would improve safety on existing runs. But it took a hell of a long time. The lift connection between the two halves of Wagrain is another example of a lift that was approved in a staged manner (i.e. they applied bit by bit for the permissions building up to the final application for the cable across the valley). It should be finally completed by the beginning of next season, but it has taken about 15 years from the first concrete plans - by that I mean more than just people standing on one side of the valley wishing they could get across to the other on skis! wink

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New linking and other lifts to create the Espace Diamant were built between 2002 - 2004. Since then there has been at least one new lift or major upgrade each year - one being built this coming summer which will create 3 new pistes going in the direction of Les Contamines and Megeve though I doubt they'll ever make that final link (and hope they don't).

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For La Plagne the question is more about how many pistes / lifts have been removed over the last 10 years (3 lifts removed last season alone)! The planned expansion of the Becoin sector was cancelled 2/3 years ago. Although development certificates were in existence, these have now been 'handed back'.

After all it is free

Kitsbuhel built the 3s not long ago I guess, which linked the main kitz area to the pass thurn side, which I'm guessing was paid for by everyone but kitz! They also added the horn, but not sure on the time that went up/got improved.

Good thread shep, but I really wish -purely for selfish reasons - that they would link druzin to abundance, then from there to the main pds Very Happy

never going to happen though! Did you ever ski druzin shep? Looks like there used to be a piste down to return to le biot? Still skiable unpisted?

pam w, Was interested in reading more about the expansion this summer in the Espace Diamant. You know where I can find more information on this Pam? Tried their website and a quick google search but have come up blank so far...

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Last expansion in Chamonix was the addition of the Valorcine gondola almost 10 years ago, this provided more access rather than more skiing.
Apart from the addition of the Floria drag lift that gives a tiny additional area in 2001, we haven't had any expansion here since the Flegere/Brevent interlink in the early 90's.

In Chamonix is no so much expansion that's needed it's replacement of our horribly outdated access lifts. There is light at the end of the tunnel on this count but I can't say much more yet.

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dennisp, Is that a hint as to where you might be purchasing? wink

Not sure Drouzin or Abondance or financially stable enough to consider a link... Not sure if I ever shared this with you dennisp,

http://pistehors.com/news/forums/viewthread/1331/

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Idris,

Samerberg Sue, Saas Fee has just started work on an expansion project announced last year? It is replacing an exsisting lift but also extending it to open new terrain.

Idris, Chamonix badly needs to look at its lift infastructure.

You know it makes sense.

Idris, I read that a new chair is scheduled down the back of Les Houches, plus the terrible Plan Joran chair at GM is to be replaced. I also heard that there was a scheme to link the bottom of the Trap at Flegere down into the valley that would in turn link to the bottom of the Lavancher bowl at GM but failed partly due to not being able to get enought real estate in the valley bottom. I guess any substantial development in the Chamonix Valley is blighted until the long term future of the CdM is resolved.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

There's a lift due in Verbier next season, from Le Chable up to Bruson.

That will give a lift link between Verbier and Bruson, although the travel time to get there must end up around 30 minutes I guess.

i've no idea if this will lead to upgrades in the Bruson area.

A snowHead

A snowHead

alpineaddict, we didn't buy in col as the drive up there is too far and I had heard a little sketchy at times, but we have bought where opening druzin would certainly add value to rental and overall property value, but we certainly didn't factor druzin being opened into our purchase. You can get a nice 4 bed chalet up there for relative peanuts, so if you knew it was going to open, that's where to buy! I imagine some people lost their shirts with that development.

Thanks for the link, read it before, but good for another read

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Mosha Marc, that is being built now, with a large lift station near the Le Chable car park. I read it took 23 years to get it off the ground.

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dennisp, Like I have said before, I certainly hope everything goes ok for you, it truly is an amazingly beautiful valley to be in... As years goes by I am beginning to love the smaller, more picturesque ski stations... Hence why I love St Jean d'Aulps so much...

pam w, Never realised there was a free bus linking the Hautlace side of LC to the Espace Diamont? Will that bring everything close to the Belleville lift?

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AlpineAddict, info about the new chair here

http://www.lessaisies.org/forum/discussions-et-questions-autour-des-saisies-et-de-l-espace-diamant/38-tsd-6-bellastat-confirmation-pour-l-hiver-2013-2014

Yes, there is a free bus between Les Saisies and Hauteluce. It's a practical way of spending a day in the other domain but not for a quick shuttle around during the ski day. Both because it's quite a way and because the buses aren't that frequent - essentially beginning and end of the day.

I'm not sure what you mean by a bus "bringing everything close to the Belleville lift". The bus between LC and LS has existed for a long time. The new Bellastat chair will physically be quite close to the Col de Joly but won't make for a ski link. I find it difficult to envisage exactly where the new lift and pistes are going to be, actually - no doubt I shall take a walk over there in the summer, when they are building it, and all will be revealed. That will take the Espace Diamant to well over 200 kms of lift-linked skiing. There's a delightful new blue slope opened in LS this season making for an easier link to Crest Voland than either the steeper red Sanglier run or the long green track through the forest on the Bisanne side.

I have been very impressed with the constant investment in expanding the area (though the Espace Diamant website hasn't seen much of that investment, I suspect!).

It was because of the planned creation of the ED that MGM put so much new investment into Les Saisies, particularly our area (Bisanne 1500). It was a major aspect of their marketing and certainly sold the place to us. They know that buyers want "ski aux pieds" and a decent sized area. And probably land was a lot cheaper than in the better known domains.

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pam w, Thx for this... I got myself confused whilst tying there, and didn't read it back, sorry... I was meaning to ask if the new lift and pistes will bring access to the ED closer to the chair at Bellville? Will that new 'Bellastat' lift be making its way to the valley? I don't really know that area so difficult to tell from the picture Smile

Thx

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As Samerberg Sue has written, there are some pretty complicated goops to jump through to put in new lifts and pistes. Upgrading doesn't seem to be a problem and I think the regs are heavier in Land Salzburg than Styria. The Styrian section of Ski Amadé seems to add something pretty cheeky every couple of years.
The biggest thing round here is going to be the massive cable-car link from Flachau/Wagrain over to Wagrain/Alpendorf.
I've been told that the plans have been drawn to link Flachu WInkl with Wagrain/Topliner and that the electric company is on board too... but the regs and land ownersmay have different ideas!

After all it is free

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I'm not sure even upgrading is that straight forward these days - wasn't there a lot of planning / environment issues when they replaced the chair on the Pissailas glacier a couple of years ago ?

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Environmental issues put a halt (thankfully) to plans to link the Espace Diamant and Megeve. For much less understandable reasons they have also delayed the replacement of a very slow old chair in Notre Dame de Bellecombe - not at all clear why a new lift on the same track should cause problems. There's a faster drag that provides quite an interesting alternative route to the same place but it's quite steep and long, with one of those "lift you off your feet" starts so not for the faint-hearted. Laughing

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Ok so lots of alpine areas still managing to push small expansions through, mainly to link areas together in the belief that bigger is better. No completely new resorts in Europe since Aonach Mor I suspect? Oh there's Sochi obviously. Is this the same in US?

Avoriaz has added 50% to it's bed capacity in the last 15 years, Morzine and the other PdS towns must be up by 25% I would guess. With the increase in uplift speed too, I reckon the pistes are at least 30% busier. Is this sustainable, or will the greed eventually overpower the environmental concerns and the brakes be let off? Or will the law of supply and demand force the resorts to double the prices to keep numbers down? Can't see the developers being too happy with that solution....

With the perimeters not growing, no more ski in/out property is generated, so any growth involves increased traffic and parking problems etc. If global warming keeps threatening the smaller lower resorts that can only exacerbate things.

Interesting times are ahead...

You know it makes sense.

Good point, I suppose there's still a lot of infilling potential around the existing perimeters.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

pam w, Thx for the response re link to Esapce Diamant and Hauteluce. Wit ref to your response it seems that Megeve wants to link into everyone, with one off the latest ideas, linking LC to Megeve now, as opposed to St Gervais... Not sure it will ever come off because, as you mentioned, of the environmental aspect, and esp in the area they are talking of, the wind...

As a potential investor in Les Contamines, I would actually like to see a link out of Les Contamines into one of the neighbouring resorts. I know that statement wont go down well with most, but like I say, that is an investor talking... If I was to live there then I could see that expansion would not necessarily be the best solution, when buses are readily availability, and the time it would take to get across, would be far more than actually travelling by road to that resort...

A snowHead

kitenski, I think you will find that that particular link has been many, many years in the planning. I believe Steilhang knows more of the history as his wife is from that particular area.

Linking areas is something that does go on as it is a means of enhancing the areas that already exist and by spreading the users across a bigger area, theoretically you are doing something to improve safety. The fact that more punters come along is something they seem to gloss over a wee bit (cough cough!). But the link wanted to expand Zell am See for example has been blocked time and time again by the environmental laws. It is still there on the table but when and if it ever gets built is another question entirely. It is desperately needed as is the link to Saalbach-Hinterglemm that is regularly spoken about, but again these plans take a great deal of time and "round the back of the shed type negotiations" with the local, provincial and national bodies involved, as well as the landowners. I know of one upgrade that was stymied by the landowner after all the permissions were in place and the money found for the development. So the lift upgrade and further piste "safety enhancements" did not take place on that side of the hill! rolling eyes

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Samerberg Sue, Big sign in Zurs this year saying Lech/Zurs Linking with Warth/Schrocken 2013/14 season.

As it happens I'm having a few days skiing at Warth/Schrocken first week of April. Ski links into Lech ............... there's substantial OP opportunities to do so at the moment, but the plus side of the link will be the superb north facing pistes at Warth/Scrocken and the OP these lifts open up.

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No ones mentioned the recent extensions in the Trois Vallees. BouChet and Peyron were added about 8 years ago and in another sector of VT a new funitel was added last year, not sure why though.

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Locally, on a small scale, this year the Loferer Alm installed a new chairlift which opened up a new hillside.

Apart from that and replacement of older lifts, major developments are rather linking existing areas, e.g. Fieberbrunn-Hinterglemm, Zell am See-Saalbach, St. Johann in Tirol-Kitzbüheler Horn. I would expect some of these plans to come to fruition before the end of the decade.

After all it is free

They also put in a new link this year between the Wildschoenau and Alpbach, creating the "ski jewel"! area. But that was just one new gondola and half a piste (the lower half is scheduled for next year, you currently have to take the gondola down from the mid station).

I have no idea how long it took to get that one through.

kitenski, according to Hubert Strolz, the link between Warth and Lech was first discussed in the early 70s, while he was still in short trousers! There are one or two other enhancements to the area which are also sporadically under discussion (a lift from Schrocken - shown as "Projekt" on the piste maps - and a lift from Warth to the top of the Wartherhorn) which might be in place before my yet-to-be born grandchildren get too old to ski.

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Help!!

When did your ski area last have a major expansion?

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