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Brit Skiers - All the tackle and no talent ?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
DB wrote:
Maybe the better solution for lower level skiers who want to get offpiste would be to go for two pairs of skis. 1 = piste ski for developing skills on non-powder days. 2= a soft wider powder ski that helps them stay a-float at lower speeds in the power. ...quiver killers....


+1. Ideally you'd hire and change each day depending on conditions (imagine how many skis you'd have in your dream quiver to cover all eventualities) but it's awkward and requires a very well stocked (and hence expensive) hire shop.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Sideshow_Bob,
I suspect your weight and skill level means you can ski the Mantras, lower level / lighter skiers will have a real problem with them.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
dulcamara, if the truth be known, I'll have around 15 skis, but the 4 I've listed are mine, all mine, been a long time coming, only owned 2 pairs of skis my whole life! Dynastar Speed 63 and K2 Apache Chief.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
DB wrote:
I suspect your weight and skill level means you can ski the Mantras, lower level / lighter skiers will have a real problem with them.


I'm certainly not suggesting the Mantras as an ideal all-round ski for the British-level-intermediate skier, merely using them as an example that going off width alone is folly. They are quite stiff and demanding and can be tiring to ski all day, but not as tiring as a race ski, or my old original-edition Legend Pros. I'd say the only real difference in effort required between them and a narrower but equally stiff ski is the extra weight due to extra width.


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 28-03-13 14:36; edited 1 time in total
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
DB

Nice review linked, doesn't come across at all as someone who is an old school reactionary, probably posts on Epic etc. wink I can quite see how people wouldn't like them but I can't see how you'd say the ski design forces you into the back seat - it rather suggests someone who sits on a stiffer tail quite often and doesn't suffer for it.

More generally maybe we need a "talent" badge - if you're under 20 weeks experience, haven't done instructor training or intensive tuition or raced you shouldn't be allowed access to fun kit because you might not meet someone's idealised idea of what hardpack skiing should be. Heaven forbid.
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fatbob, CH2O will disagree with everything here, but read this review of the Rossi Super 7 by a decent skier open to new designs on Blister: http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/review-2011-2012-rossignol-super-7 . People like different things in a ski, and even with the same skill levels, one person's epic off-piste ski is another person's nightmare.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Sideshow_Bob,

IMHO, yes stiffer wide skis perform much better on-piste than floppy wide ones but I've found in general the wider the ski - the more difficult they are for short turns. As British-level-intermediate skiers who are learning powder don't start off doing super wide turns offpiste it is generally their linked short turns that they need to work on. On piste a narrower piste ski is the better tool for short turns.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
fatbob wrote:
DB
More generally maybe we need a "talent" badge - if you're under 20 weeks experience, haven't done instructor training or intensive tuition or raced you shouldn't be allowed access to fun kit because you might not meet someone's idealised idea of what hardpack skiing should be. Heaven forbid.


No need to stop people having fun but I see no no harm is holding a dicussion to help those who have the most fun by upping their ability.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Sideshow_Bob, you are right I don't agree, and given this chaps love for the flat cambered version, I would suggest he's mounted them wrong, which is incredibly easy to do, all but 3 pairs we sold needed remounting after use for similar reasons, me included, however the Super and the S don't ski at all the same.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Sideshow_Bob, wow - that's a full on, 'rip-off-the-band-aid' review! I ho-hummed the S7's once and got roundly and multiply shot down here - I don't feel so bad now! Very Happy

I think the skiing world is gradually creeping and dragging themselves to the view that there is no such thing as an all-mountain ski. The conditons we are dragging planks in to is just too diverse for the levels people wish to ski now AND the body shapes that are getting there are too diverse for a one size fits all approach. If there is an all-mountain ski, it is going to limited to the level 7 skiier and below. Above that you are just asking way too much of the ski in each environment and it has to be compromised in some way. Fear not tho', I have a cunning plan Toofy Grin
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:

only owned 2 pairs of skis my whole life! Dynastar Speed 63 and K2 Apache Chief.


Big respect just earned! the dynastar 63s were awesome, assuming we're talking about the ones with the crazy tip deflectors, they were my first proper carving skis!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
RattytheSnowRat, same with boots, the one boot does all is pretty much out there, but people are happy to stretch to either extreme to have a simple two boot choice. "Day three"we call it.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
RattytheSnowRat wrote:
Fear not tho', I have a cunning plan Toofy Grin


Introducing RattytheSnowRat's ski caddy service Smile
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
DB wrote:

No need to stop people having fun but I see no no harm is holding a dicussion to help those who have the most fun by upping their ability.


I basically agree - I can visualise the sort of statue like piste donkey skiing you've in mind and there's no ski on earth that will cure the faults in that. Instruction can help along with honest self review - I often just feel like shaking people and saying to them - what's the difference between that "good" skier and you? And the difference is usually movement, flexible skiers move. As to what movements are good, you can experiement or be told (though most quality instruction these days is about self discovery and modelling of what "good" feels like).
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
DB, I'm actually quite happy that I got semi-proficient at skiing off piste when a fat ski was 80mm underfoot. then, i really was just making a choice of turning radius between my piste and off piste skis (well, there was a bit more to it than that but there wasn't a huge difference in performance between them). now, if i was someone who could just about carve my turns but also wanted to ski off piste more, I have no idea what I would buy!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Arno wrote:
DB, I'm actually quite happy that I got semi-proficient at skiing off piste when a fat ski was 80mm underfoot. then, i really was just making a choice of turning radius between my piste and off piste skis (well, there was a bit more to it than that but there wasn't a huge difference in performance between them). now, if i was someone who could just about carve my turns but also wanted to ski off piste more, I have no idea what I would buy!


Yes I remember my first skis were mid-fats with a whopping 70mm waist Shocked snowHead

There's much more choice nowadays, many more widths, materials, stiffnesses, rockers, different cambers, etc etc etc.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
DB, which is why I was on snowboards. Wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
DB wrote:
Noticed that in various threads many posters appear to focus more on equipment than building skills. A sort of "Buying new kit is cool but lessons are for absolute beginners" view.

The trend is for fatter skis especially when skiing offpiste - nothing wrong with that, I have also bought wider skis within the last 2 years. We are also there to have fun so everyone is entitled to strap to their feet what gives them the most fun.

Having said that I'm seeing a trend whereby some skiers (often British) who can't ski that well on piste are picking up wide 110mm skis and hoping that the week they go skiing will be blessed with fresh powder. Now in places such as Japan or west coast USA there might be daily fresh snowfall but more often than not in Europe the big Powder dump doesn't happen and these skiers spend a week scrapping around on the hard pistes. Very good skiers often have problems getting wide skis to perform on piste - lower level skiers have a very slim chance of getting more than a scrape out of these skis.

Can't help thinking these skiers would advance better, have more fun and be better skiers in the long term if they focussed more on skills than equipment.

The industry markets an image of skiing as powder, hucking cliffs and this does lead to some, ahem, questionable equipment choices. Look at my gnarly boards dude. But I think everyone benefits from using appropriate equipment for their ability and conditions, skinny skis on a powder day won't help them either. Just don't be a fashion victim.
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Arno wrote:
DB, ....................... wanted to ski off piste more, I have no idea what I would buy!


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221202628283?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

A rather under-rated OP ski from a now defunct manufacturer............... am I wasting £21.00??
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
skimastaaah, That's a score - see you didn't PSA that! Think I demoed them when Chris & Andy were at Hemel - OK, not earth shattering.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
fatbob, They're best in the snow rather than than on the snow as would be at Hemel.

Bought these after being reminded of the response through Ski Review that a decent pair of OP skis may not be the obvious ones. Prior to my superlative bid/purchase I was thinking Volkl Katana/Kendo. But having saved the best part of £300 I think I'll have another ski holiday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
dulcamara, yep, all sounds very reasonable

Sideshow_Bob, agree that width is talked about a lot but I think often because other characteristics are less easily discerned and less incontrovertible. You're right of course about skis being completely different in character regardless of width. I'm sure I wouldn't get on with the Mantras because they would be too stiff for me. OTOH I quite like my S3s which are only a mm wider than the Mantras but a bit soft even at my welterweight.

fatbob, people should ski whatever the heck makes them happy, I'm not going to tell them, just don't tell me their ski choice is right if they're trying to make it easy or improve. And you're right on the money: lack of movement is the biggie.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Bloomin 'eck! I came online this evening to do a bit of research on new skis and found this thread!

So what can I add to this thread that has rather gone off course like a bilge keeler in a gale. Well, people buy equipment if they can afford it! The Italian economy doesn't allow me too much posh equipment, at least for me, although the Milanese rich can pose along with the best of them: visit Courmayeur or Cervinia (or Madonna di C) for evidence. Maybe not up at Courchevel 1850 levels but...

I was skiing a variety of stuff on Monday and popped out of my skis, then again and then again when I was going straight.. So a problem with my binding... and when I got it home I discovered that there was some delamination and new skis seem required - rats! (They were repaired a few years ago and they've had a fair bit of use)... We had snow down to 600m yesterday and I can ski until May at Cervinia so I do _need_ something, even if I'm not an industry professional - I teach English here.

So what skis do I get then? My existing ones (Scott Apache All Mountains) are 76mm underfoot (I just checked:-) ) and like Dulcamara I try and go off-piste if I can. If the snow is light , 76mm underfoot is still great fun and I had a day at La Thuile earlier in the season (1m+ of fresh!) that was so light you could have skied on anything. I can only afford (allow myself!) one pair, so 110mm is just silly. Even 80mm would be better than my existing skis for powder.

So tonight I've had an overload of information, and this thread is fairly typical - probably more heat than light, but interesting for all that. Happy
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